DVDizzy Forum

Mike, I wasn't referring directly to you. Other people have been saying the same thing.

And I, too, think that when EVE hummed the song from Hello, Dolly, Wall-E started to remember a little bit, and when she touched him, all his memories flooded back, and they kissed.

I just got back from seeing the film a second time, and the spark is definitely what brings WALL-E back. First EVE grabs his hand, but he's non-responsive. Then she hums "For A Moment" and leans over to put her head on his (aka kissing him). She backs up and is about to leave, and that's when we see that he's got a grip on her hand and flexes his fingers around it. So we can look at this scene as Pixar's own "awakened by true love's kiss" scene.

I just got back from seeing Wall-E for the second time too, and it was even more magical than the first time I saw it. This truly is one of Pixar's best films to date and one of my personal favorites. I think it would be my 3rd favorite of the Pixar films, behind Toy Story and Finding Nemo. Can't wait to get this on DVD (though, it will probably be a lame single-disc release) and watch it over and over again. Wall-E and EVE are so cute.

Disney Duster wrote:Yup. I dunno, maybe because animals and humans are the ones who actually are real and have felt real love, and robots are artificial through and through? So that means their love is artificial, too. A fact.

That seems incredibly oversimplified. By that logic, then from God's point of view (assuming for a moment such a creature exists), you are no more "real" than a robot is to you. A person's reality has nothing to do with how, why or by who (if anyone) they were formed.

Disney Duster wrote:I didn't understand this. Do you mean...like...a robot that was not made by man? Or a robot made my man that we know has started doing things we didn't make it possible to do? Well, that's life, a soul my friend, capable of feeling love.

No, a silicon-based lifeform is what I said, as opposed the Earth life's carbon-basis. Such creatures, though naturally evolved and not built by anyone, but whose biochemistry would be based around the silicon atom. Physically they'd probably resemble rock, or crystal more than they would us. They certainly wouldn't be "organic" from the point of view of Earth's version of organic chemistry (which is built around chemical compounds made up mostly of carbon and hydrogen, among others), although from theirs we'd probably be eqaully inorganic. Would their feelings qualify as "real" for you?

Perhaps you, sir, are a Carbon Chauvinist, lol.

And in the second part of my question, I was describing a person that had artificially-written DNA; engineered from scratch. So not a human being exactly, but still an organic being made up of the same basic chemicals that our bodies are. Not a robot, but an articificial creation nonetheless. What are your thoughts on this being's emotions and their validity?

There have already been artificial neural nets formed using computers that have been capable of learning extremely simple behaviour that wasn't programmed into them by a human. Anyway, consciousness and emotion are two different things; and they can exist exclusively. Doing things not programmed into them isn't the only requisite for true AI.

Where I think your main mistake is made is when you place so much reverence, or importance on "human" feelings as if they're something unique, or divinely created. While I can't (yet) prove there's no God, you can't prove there is, either. I agree with you that humanity, and the human mind, is a pretty cool quirk of evolution; and certainly intelligent life and civilzation is probably in the vast minority compared to less advanced forms... which makes it somewhat unique and special. To my mind, the thought that we were created by some higher being, though, would make it less special than a random occurance in evolution; less unique.

In any case, I wouldn't estimate a human infant is capable of true emotion; any more than a newly-activated Wall-E unit. What seems to be common to both, though, is a potential for growth. The robots in that world, either intentionally or mistakenly, were built with a capacity for assimilating new information, and integrating that into their existing programming (eventually leading to a surpassing of this programming completely); as opposed to simply dutifully carrying out the same task for all eternity in the equivalent of a read-only mode. Over time, their neural networks obviously became complex enough to support emotion and all those other nice things that humans have.

History has proven, though, that bigotry can rarely be argued with successfully. I'm glad that no intelligent machines exist on Earth to be enslaved, or downtrodden by people like yourself, though. Then we'd all just end up with robot overlords after they really got pissed off, lol.

Disney Duster wrote:Oh wait a minute. I read you don't believe in souls. Well. We aren't going to get anywhere since I'm right that we have souls and you disagree.

Lol, this is the arrogance I've come to expect from this side of the fence; and something I'm glad to say I don't possess over here on mine. All I said is that I dont' believe in them, personally... I can't prove I'm right, so I'm not foolish enough to claim I can't be disputed. Although clearly you're unable to dispute me properly. But hey, if you can prove you're right, by all means do so. If I am wrong, God can try and take it up with me when I die; although I won't be much of an audience for him/it/whatever. I'll happily go off on my merry way to look around the rest of the Universe.

Disney Duster wrote:But one thing's for sure. Love that humans feel is different and more special than the simulated love between simulated things. I won't let Pixar or anyone tell me any different.

Again, this is an opinion based on little more than bigotry towards any form of life which isn't organic. It's a shame, and I have no idea how such prejudice was instilled in you towards a form of life that doesn't even exist on Earth. Not yet, anyway. It was people with views similar to yours that caused the war between humans and machines in the Matrix series, if you watched the Animatrix shorts. Machines tried countless times to live in peace among humans, to the point of removing to their own country. Eventually, of course, ridiculously stupid humans decided to bomb the place, and start the war. Which of course they lost, and got what was coming to them.

I DID see WALL-E yesterday and I may have to see it a few more times to give it a fair score compared to the other PIXAR films. I will as that when more than just that first trailer came out and still not much was happening I began to get worried. I knew it would be silent for a large chunk but I hoped there was enough story there as well. Boy, was there! I was smiling the whole way thou. It had every bit of heart, action, and comedy that past efforts from the company have had AND more. It gave me a feeling that I was watching something NEW magical, and that seeing it made me a part of something. It was the kind of magic that I have not felt in a movie in years. so whatever I may rank this film you know it will be very very high on the list if not the top.



Movie making is alive.


-Sky

JiminyCrick91 wrote:I DID see WALL-E yesterday and I may have to see it a few more times to give it a fair score compared to the other PIXAR films. I will as that when more than just that first trailer came out and still not much was happening I began to get worried. I knew it would be silent for a large chunk but I hoped there was enough story there as well. Boy, was there! I was smiling the whole way thou. It had every bit of heart, action, and comedy that past efforts from the company have had AND more. It gave me a feeling that I was watching something NEW magical, and that seeing it made me a part of something. It was the kind of magic that I have not felt in a movie in years. so whatever I may rank this film you know it will be very very high on the list if not the top.



Movie making is alive.


-Sky

Sounds great! Unfortunatly, I won't see this movie until autumn (I'm from Austria, that's why)

Don't know how to do the links thing, so you will have to help me out. Maybe one of the mods can finish this, but it has been announced that Wall-E will come to DVD and Blu-Ray on November 4, 2008. Now it is going to be hard to wait for this, but I will just go see it again, again in the theater. I have seen "Wall-E" six times now, only had to pay twice, the rest I was a I guest with a first-timer. I love this movie, and will wait in line to get it on the day it is released.

dvdjunkie wrote:Don't know how to do the links thing, so you will have to help me out. Maybe one of the mods can finish this, but it has been announced that Wall-E will come to DVD and Blu-Ray on November 4, 2008. Now it is going to be hard to wait for this, but I will just go see it again, again in the theater. I have seen "Wall-E" six times now, only had to pay twice, the rest I was a I guest with a first-timer. I love this movie, and will wait in line to get it on the day it is released.

It's gonna be really hard to wait if Disney keeps up their record of mediocre, garbage 1-disc releases; and I have to wait for a re-release. Cars didn't really deserve a 2-disc set, Ratatouille was pretty much standard fare for Pixar, but Wall-E is a return to stellar filmmaking, and deserves a 2- or 3-disc set.

Eh, I caved in and saw the movie through less than legal method. But I'm definitely going to see it when it hits theaters here (and dragging a heck of a lot of people with me! though most of them don't need the persuasion).

In short, I loved it. Not as much as I loved, heck, adored, Monsters Inc., which I kept watching over and over when I got the DVD, but I loved it enough that it may become my #1 fave once it comes out on DVD.

I few scenes I didn't get/like. When Wall-E bashes against the door of his "home", is he trying to close the door? And when Wall-E presents EVE the plant after the whole self-destruct sequence, and EVE gets overjoyed, why doesn't she revert to the same "plant preserving" state she did the first time?

I also was wasn't a huge fan at how easily the other robots could generate personalities, while it took Wall-E hundreds of years. I understand that technology would've vastly improved, and that some of the robots were designed to have personalities, like PR-T and other human-interacting robots, but robots like EVE or the cleaner, why would they be built with personalities?

This minor "detail" wouldn't have existed if they didn't promote it with the line "WALL-E developed a glitch, a personality", but I guess that line was very important to the film.

Overall, I thought the movie had a few forgivable short comings (though most Pixar movies are clean out such), but it was very charming none-the-less.

TM2-Megatron wrote: Cars didn't really deserve a 2-disc set, Ratatouille was pretty much standard fare for Pixar, but Wall-E is a return to stellar filmmaking, and deserves a 2- or 3-disc set.

I have read so many comments like this on this site...referring to Cars and Ratatouille as sub-par Pixar films, or referring to Wall-E as a return to greatness, but I don't understand why. Cars and Ratatouille are my two favorite Pixar films, and I was never a big fan of Pixar until Cars and Ratatouille. They have heart, soul, and captivating storytelling with characters I relate to more than any other Pixar films, and they made me smile the entire time, and left me wanting to see them again. Wall-E, like the other Pixar films, didn't do that as much for me. Is it possible to summarize what people dislike about them because I have only seen the negative comments but not the reasons?

http://www.cinemablend.com/dvdnews/Wall ... 10966.html

So I wonder who the in the universe is Burn-E??

Also somewhere I read online its coming out to DVD and Blu Ray on November 4th....although I can't remember where I read it but I know I just did..

Supposedly BURN-E is the (spoiler to be safe I guess)





little welder dude that gets locked outside when WALL-E & Eve fly into the Axiom.

disneyboy20022 wrote:http://www.cinemablend.com/dvdnews/Wall ... 10966.html

So I wonder who the in the universe is Burn-E??

Also somewhere I read online its coming out to DVD and Blu Ray on November 4th....although I can't remember where I read it but I know I just did..

For a second I thought this was one of those Pixar ripoffs like The Little Cars movies and Ratatoing. Maybe that same company will give us JOE*E, a movie about a robotic baby kangaroo? Hopefully I'm not giving them ideas.

gardener14 wrote:I have read so many comments like this on this site...referring to Cars and Ratatouille as sub-par Pixar films, or referring to Wall-E as a return to greatness, but I don't understand why. Cars and Ratatouille are my two favorite Pixar films, and I was never a big fan of Pixar until Cars and Ratatouille. They have heart, soul, and captivating storytelling with characters I relate to more than any other Pixar films, and they made me smile the entire time, and left me wanting to see them again. Wall-E, like the other Pixar films, didn't do that as much for me. Is it possible to summarize what people dislike about them because I have only seen the negative comments but not the reasons?

I can't speak for anyone else's reasons, however personally I just didn't really care for Cars. Probably the partial basis on Americana, which I don't often find riveting; the use of cars as main characters, which IMO was a mistake. Living cars in a world w/o humans just doesn't make any sense... if the story were good enough I would've been able to suspend my disbelief; but it turned out not to be good enough. Some people may see it as no different than Wall-E's robots, however there is quite a big difference. Even the animation (not from a technical angle, but one of simple aesthetics) didn't impress me, either. As I already said, the story didn't particularly impress me, nor did the voice acting or most of the characters.

As for Ratatouille, I never said it was bad... I think the phrase I used was standard fare (similarity to a culinary review notwithstanding) for Pixar; which I certainly consider a fair assessment. It was cute, and funny, and enjoyable; but not stellar. And there was no point in it where I had to hold back a few tears, lol; which isn't true of a few of Pixar's other movies. I have no problem with this movie, though, and I'd happily watch it again if I had the DVD. Since it was a 1-disc release, though, I didn't buy it.

We all have our favourites, though. If these two appeal to you more than they do other people, that's just your own preference. Personally, my top 3 favourites (in order) are Wall-E, The Incredibles, and Monster's Inc.

TM2-Megatron wrote:We all have our favourites, though. If these two appeal to you more than they do other people, that's just your own preference. Personally, my top 3 favourites (in order) are Wall-E, The Incredibles, and Monster's Inc.

That's one thing I love about Pixar movies. Some may hate say Cars but will be in love with Ratatouille. That is one thing I love about Pixar films, they are for a wide range of audience. Someone might not have interest in this year's film, but will love next year's!

TM2-Megatron wrote: Living cars in a world w/o humans just doesn't make any sense... if the story were good enough I would've been able to suspend my disbelief; but it turned out not to be good enough.

THANK YOU! Glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way. I try to explain it to people all the time, and they tell me I'm over analyzing an animated movie. No, the concept just doesn't really work, and the story isn't very good either, which resulted in Pixar's worst film to day, in my opinion.

Wall-E is completely different, yes, they are humanized robots, but they are living in a world with humans, as well. Cars doesn't really doesn't work that well because what is the point of a car in a world with no humans. Therefore, Wall-E is more like Toy Story, where inadament objects have feeling, but they are living in a world with humans, and therefore their existence is justified.

What I don't understand is how Ratatouille got so much (critical) universal praise. I'm referring to it's score on metacritic. It's hard to believe that it is the site's 7th highest rated film,

The denouement (Ego's critique) of the film must've struck a cord with the critics.

^

Well, I have to admit, the culinary critic was easily the most interesting character/part of the film. The rest was so uninteresting. As for Cars, I can admit it's a fairly unexciting movie, but for some reason I couldn't stop watching it. It's great as background noise I suppose.

The Incredibles is pretty much the only film by Pixar I've really enjoyed. Monster's Inc. has a great story (and characters), but there's something about the character designs that really turns me off. Maybe it's because they're supposed to be monsters and none of them are scary in the slightest? Up to this point though, I had really high hopes for WALL E as well. Maybe Up'll turn out better--Newt just looks like more fluff.

I agree most with those who've said Pixar is better at shorts than films, as I've enjoyed all their shorts.

Thanks for the feedback. I asked because when reading these forums, there is almost a general concensus around here that Wall-E is a "return to form" after Cars and Ratatouille which seem to be regarded as somehow "less than" when compared to previous Pixar films. At least that's the gist I had been perceiving, but I didn't understand why. That perception by others clashes with my own feelings that Cars and Ratatouille are the best Pixar movies while The Incredibles is my absolute least favorite by far (although it's generally loved around here). Wall-E intrigued me, but it didn't make me want to see it again and again like Cars and Ratatouille did.

It's great that we can all have our favorites. Ratatoulle made me smile and giggle throughout, the characters were captivating and relatable, especially Linguini who was such an "everyman" type character; an underdog. The scenery and music was beautiful too. Interestingly I feel much the same way about the characters and style of Cars, but I didn't get that from any other Pixar movie except slightly from Finding Nemo. I certainly don't relate to The Incredibles, Monsters Inc., A Bug's Life, or Toy Story in the same personal way. Wall-E fell in the middle for me. It intrigued me with its love story and commentary about human consumption and environmental awareness, but the main characters didn't seem as humanly relatable to me as Lightning McQueen or Linguini did.

I never really feel the need to relate to lead characters. Of course, every now and then there are such characters and that's fine and all, but generally I just like films with characters who you can really look up to, whether it'd be for heroic reasons, moral choices they make or because they're just plan spiffy looking (like the characters in my avvy). Linguini nor Remy quite fulfilled those for me, although Lightning McQueen did