DVDizzy Forum

UmbrellaFish wrote:Notably, the trailer only shows scenes with humans, none of those chewed up spearmint gum wads in sight.

That seems like a direct response to criticism of having yet another lead character of color turn into a non-human for the majority of the film.

Yeah, they will deserve the backlash if the marketing continues to look like this but the actual movie ends up casting the main character as green chewing gum for the majority of the picture.

It’s so hard to look at those character designs, those backgrounds, that warm lighting and to think they’d ever want to cut away from that... it looks like it might be their most beautiful movie to date!

I'm not fond of the character designs, particularly of the main character. It seems to me they came up first with his 'soul' design and then reverse engineered his human design to look close to that. His head is shaped like a droplet, for crying out loud. You don't start with such a shape when designing humans; you do so when you design fantastical, caricatured creatures.

I like the message of the trailer. And yes, it looked beautiful.

Did they have only the human versions of the characters becuase of the riots?

Sotiris wrote:I'm not fond of the character designs, particularly of the main character. It seems to me they came up first with his 'soul' design and then reverse engineered his human design to look close to that. His head is shaped like a droplet, for crying out loud. You don't start with such a shape when designing humans; you do so when you design fantastical, caricatured creatures.

It makes sense since I think they came up with the souls first and then realized that the characters don't have to spend a lot of time as humans, which led to a black character cause that way they get woke points but are safe with racists and international markets.

They're stupid because they are only going to get more controversy when the film comes out and it turns out that the Black lead is not human and visibly Black for most of the film. People will feel cheated from the marketing.

People already noticed it back when the first images were released:
https://twitter.com/topherflorence/stat ... 52709?s=09

And since TPATF has been in the news recently, I've seen a lot of discourse on Black Twitter about how TPATF really isn't great representation either considering it's yet another film where a Black lead is transformed into an animal or other creature and it's the wrong movie to use to replace Song of the South.

farerb wrote:It makes sense since I think they came up with the souls first and then realized that the characters don't have to spend a lot of time as humans, which led to a black character cause that way they get woke points but are safe with racists and international markets.

That's entirely plausible. Him being a jazz musician also seems like an afterthought to me.

I definitely think Soul will be the film that blows that particular criticism sky-high. It's just been several films (and from different studios) with Black characters that always seem to transform them into something else for the majority of the screentime that makes it suspicious. I would've never thought anything about it if it had just been TP&TF, but then there was that movie with the James Bond-esque character who changes into a bird released by another studio and now this film from PIXAR... It's hard to know if these things are talked about behind-the-scenes in an overt way (as in they actually discussed the fact they didn't want Black characters onscreen for too long and how to "fix" that issue) to know if it's racist, but hopefully there will be major blowback after this film to make sure this "thing" doesn't continue on and future animated Black characters don't do the same. A part of me thinks it was unintentional though, because Disney has gone all in on diversity the past decade or more, and this didn't happen to Moana or Big Hero 6, and PIXAR had Coco. I know those don't feature Black characters, but they feature diverse casts. And even TP&TF features Odie and Facilier regularly onscreen while Tiana and Naveen are frogs?

Then again, there's Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse that features a main, Black protagonist whose onscreen the majority of the time. I finally got it on Blu-ray last week because Amazon marked it down for a day there. I just had to sneak that in there.

Disney's Divinity wrote:I definitely think Soul will be the film that blows that particular criticism sky-high. It's just been several films (and from different studios) with Black characters that always seem to transform them into something else for the majority of the screentime that makes it suspicious. I would've never thought anything about it if it had just been TP&TF, but then there was that movie with the James Bond-esque character who changes into a bird released by another studio and now this film from PIXAR...

The trope in and of itself isn't a problem. Humans transforming into animals and other creatures is a stable in fairytales and folklore. It's when it becomes a pattern in films where a character of color is the lead, the trope turns into an issue, regardless if it's intentional or not. Animated films where that keeps happening are piling up: The Emperor's New Groove, Brother Bear, The Princess and the Frog, Spies in Disguise, Soul.

Oh, wow, I didn't even think about Brother Bear and The Emperor's New Groove! If we go that far back though, we can also include Aladdin, Mulan, and Pocahontas as films that didn't do that. Also The Prince of Egypt, too, I think? Question, what would the characters in Lilo & Stitch be called? I know it's just set in Hawaii. But I guess they aren't simply White people with tans since Myrtle is noticeably different from Lilo. I guess I never really thought about what their race might be. I know Cobra Bubbles is Black, but Nani, David Kawena, and Lilo? I know Moana and her family are Polynesian.

Disney's Divinity wrote:I know Cobra Bubbles is Black, but Nani, David Kawena, and Lilo? I know Moana and her family are Polynesian.

They are Native Hawaiians.

Okay, thank you, that's good to know!

blackcauldron85 wrote:You need to RSVP and the Soul portion is 4 minutes in and lasts 10 minutes.

Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK9rLXMNVNc

^ Thank you so much for posting that! So, they had quite a few consultants on this film; if any of them found Joe not being a human the whole time offensive, I'm sure they would have said something? That many people? Just like with TP&tF: I don't know how many consultants they had, but surely Oprah and the rest of the cast would have piped up if they found Tiana turning into a frog to be offensive...?

I'm really looking forward to seeing the film, whenever that actually will be!

I think Joe was meant to be black form the begien.

blackcauldron85 wrote:^ Thank you so much for posting that! So, they had quite a few consultants on this film; if any of them found Joe not being a human the whole time offensive, I'm sure they would have said something? That many people? Just like with TP&tF: I don't know how many consultants they had, but surely Oprah and the rest of the cast would have piped up if they found Tiana turning into a frog to be offensive...?

I'm really looking forward to seeing the film, whenever that actually will be!

I think just like the hyena thing in LK people are reading way too far in PTF and Soul.
I don't personally think they made him a non-human creature to avoid having black lead

Disney's Divinity wrote:I definitely think Soul will be the film that blows that particular criticism sky-high. It's just been several films (and from different studios) with Black characters that always seem to transform them into something else for the majority of the screentime that makes it suspicious. I would've never thought anything about it if it had just been TP&TF, but then there was that movie with the James Bond-esque character who changes into a bird released by another studio and now this film from PIXAR... It's hard to know if these things are talked about behind-the-scenes in an overt way (as in they actually discussed the fact they didn't want Black characters onscreen for too long and how to "fix" that issue) to know if it's racist, but hopefully there will be major blowback after this film to make sure this "thing" doesn't continue on and future animated Black characters don't do the same. A part of me thinks it was unintentional though, because Disney has gone all in on diversity the past decade or more, and this didn't happen to Moana or Big Hero 6, and PIXAR had Coco. I know those don't feature Black characters, but they feature diverse casts. And even TP&TF features Odie and Facilier regularly onscreen while Tiana and Naveen are frogs?

Then again, there's Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse that features a main, Black protagonist whose onscreen the majority of the time. I finally got it on Blu-ray last week because Amazon marked it down for a day there. I just had to sneak that in there.

If it was trhat bog of aa "problem" Oprah would never have

That's true. If I recall correctly, Oprah oversaw the film to a degree. I don't think she had a large sway over the film so much as she overlooked it and gave them advice if there was anything problematic in her eyes... And I don't think there's anything wrong with TP&TF whatsoever (Or Mulan for that matter. Pocahontas on the other hand I can understand the issues some have with it, but I don't think that film is horrible either.). I think it's more the re-occurrence that makes people suspect something nefarious behind the story choice to have Black protagonists constantly changing form.