DVDizzy Forum

Rihanna is better with red hair than either of them. Julie Kavner can be Ursula.

Well, the reasoning behind the idea of casting Harvey Fierstein as Ursula is~

1) Like others have mentioned, Ursula's design was modeled after Divine, the drag-queen famous for playing Edna Turnbull in the original Hairspray movie. Likewise, Harvey Fierstein played the role in the broadway version.

2) Alan Menken was the one who wanted Fierstein, and I believe he has a major say in the decision.

3) Fierstein wouldn't necessarily be playing the role in drag. I assume Ursula may be a CGI/motion capture creation a'la Davey Jones in the POTC films....personally, I like this fan design~ http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1q76pkDgfpY/T ... 2Bface.jpg

MrXemnas1992 wrote:I believe he has a major say in the decision.

He really doesn't.

Sotiris wrote:

MrXemnas1992 wrote:I believe he has a major say in the decision.

He really doesn't.

Excuse you, he's the surviving half of the duo that saved Disney animation & made Mermaid the masterpiece it is.

Disney Duster wrote:Wow Bette Midler as Ursula is inspired. I would love that. But I don't think Emma Stone could be Ariel because she doesn't look 16. They'd have to change her age and thus change her rebellious teen thing going on so it unfortunately wouldn't work. I wish we could time travel and pull young Emma Stone into now to cast her. But I also like Liam Neeson as Triton!

I'm glad so many agree Ariel's shade of red hair would look great on a non-white actress in the film.

Yeah, they're most likely going to age up Ariel.

Teenage rebellion angle aside, people nowadays really cannot accept the fact that "marriage at 16 was a thing in the 1800's" [I remember people on Tumblr complaining how the live action Beauty and the Beast didn't have any asian/hispanic representation...in a 1700's post French Revolutionary-France. *facepalm*]

MrXemnas1992 wrote:Excuse you, he's the surviving half of the duo that saved Disney animation & made Mermaid the masterpiece it is.

I know who he is. But he doesn't have a say in casting (or in any other aspect, really) when it comes to these remakes, even though he totally should! Fierstein getting cast as Ursula is extremely unlikely.

Regarding Ursula, I'm praying that they don't go with the "sassy black woman" or "quirky grande dame" angle I fear that might take.

Sure, on stage, Ursula is going to be like that because costuming and makeup can only do so much...but in a movie that's already going to be using a lot of CGI, I really want to see portrayed more "monstrously"...she's the dreaded witch of the sea. A huge hulking demon with a beefy upper body [and disturbingly tiny hands] and the lower body of a giant octopus, who eats sentient sea life ALIVE, uses blood/guts as lipstick, turns innocent merfolk into writhing mute polyps, etc.

I want people to shudder in fear when they see her, like they did with the original.

Apologies for my rambling, but y'all get what I'm talking about, right?

I like Harvey. He would do great acting-wise with Ursula, but watching him perform PUS... They would have to mix his voice with a singing voice to make it work

Disney Duster wrote:I'm no hypocrite. If we're going to believe there are half-fish half-humans, we can believe those human halves also have natural red hair regardless of skin color. Asking us to believe a man is a woman is a different kind of film logic The Little Mermaid was not going for.

Yeah, yeah, sure--bullsh*t.

Atlantica wrote:I’d rather they not experiment for Ariel, and just keep her as she is in the original. That might be extremely racist - sounding but certainly isn’t intentional. But if whoever they’ve mentioned is superb in the role, then I guess why not ?

That doesn't make you racist. If that were the case, then anyone who sneers at the idea of Fierstein must be transphobic.

MrXemnas1992 wrote:Regarding Ursula, I'm praying that they don't go with the "sassy black woman" or "quirky grande dame" angle I fear that might take.

Sure, on stage, Ursula is going to be like that because costuming and makeup can only do so much...but in a movie that's already going to be using a lot of CGI, I really want to see portrayed more "monstrously"...she's the dreaded witch of the sea. A huge hulking demon with a beefy upper body [and disturbingly tiny hands] and the lower body of a giant octopus, who eats sentient sea life ALIVE, uses blood/guts as lipstick, turns innocent merfolk into writhing mute polyps, etc.

I want people to shudder in fear when they see her, like they did with the original.

Apologies for my rambling, but y'all get what I'm talking about, right?

I agree about wanting her to be treated monstrous like in the animated film, but I think that can happen with Midler or Bassett. It depends on the direction of the film more than the person they'll cast. Besides, I think both of those actors would eat the role alive. They've both been in other roles where they really go for it like Ursula would require.

disneyprincess11 wrote:I like Harvey. He would do great acting-wise with Ursula, but watching him perform PUS... They would have to mix his voice with a singing voice to make it work

Yeah, the only reason he isn't one of my first choices is his voice. When he was in Hairspray a year and a half ago, his voice was on the weak side, but it was live. He sounded fine on the soundtrack recording, so that means they could autotune him like everyone else. *shrug* I do think it's unlikely they would choose a man to play Ursula. They'd much rather cast a pretty, thin, young woman like Sherie Scott.

Regarding Ariel's red hair, I know it's something iconic from the Disney character and that, as she's a fantastical creature, she could still have red hair and be black. But she also has too pass for a human when she has legs, so I think she should have a natural hair color for a black actress.

Well it depends how fantasy the movie goes. If it's set the the Meditteranean in the 1800's like the original film having any race other than white (even though they can be Greek, Spanish, Italian, etc.) be the royals of that kingdom would have to be taken with the same suspension of disbelief as a non-white with red hair. But if they wanted more realism they could also have in Ariel's transformation her hair turn to a natural "human" color.

MrXemnas1992 wrote:Well, the reasoning behind the idea of casting Harvey Fierstein as Ursula is~

1) Like others have mentioned, Ursula's design was modeled after Divine, the drag-queen famous for playing Edna Turnbull in the original Hairspray movie. Likewise, Harvey Fierstein played the role in the broadway version.

2) Alan Menken was the one who wanted Fierstein, and I believe he has a major say in the decision.

3) Fierstein wouldn't necessarily be playing the role in drag. I assume Ursula may be a CGI/motion capture creation a'la Davey Jones in the POTC films....personally, I like this fan design~ http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1q76pkDgfpY/T ... 2Bface.jpg

Yes but originally a woman played the first real original Ursula, too. The CGI/mo-cap may be better than drag and more workable but it could also look bad like the Beast...I'd still rather a woman played a woman who was just "inspired" by a great drag performer.

Disney's Divinity wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:I'm no hypocrite. If we're going to believe there are half-fish half-humans, we can believe those human halves also have natural red hair regardless of skin color. Asking us to believe a man is a woman is a different kind of film logic The Little Mermaid was not going for.

Yeah, yeah, sure--bullsh*t.

Seeing a non-white mermaid with red hair is totally different from pretending a man is a woman no matter if you say bullsh*t or anything else.

Well, technically, most octopi are hermaphrodites, so...

Disney Duster wrote:But if they wanted more realism they could also have in Ariel's transformation her hair turn to a natural "human" color.

Seeing a non-white mermaid with red hair is totally different from pretending a man is a woman no matter if you say bullsh*t or anything else.

That would be an interesting take especially since the 1976 Russian version of the film does just that. With her having seafoam green/mint hair that changes to blonde when she becomes human. But Ariel's red hair is so integral to her character, even moreso than Belle's hair being brown, so I can't imagine Disney will change it. It instantly makes her stand out under the sea with other merpeople and in Eric's kingdom as well.

I disagree though that there is anything wrong with a man pretending to be a woman. I'm not sure if you disagree with drag in general or just that you feel it won't fit the tone of this film. While men in drag are used often for comedy like John Travolta in Hairspray, Glen Close played a man in Albert Nobbs and passed off as one successfully so and it wasn't a farce. In fact, she was nominated at the Oscars and Golden Globes for her performance. In Ursula's case, she is a somewhat comical character and a man playing her has already been tied to her history. My only fear would be that less tolerant audiences would associate such a threatening and frightening character with drag in real life.

Also I don't understand this above notion that red hair on a black woman or any woman of color couldn't be taken as realistic. They're mermaids first of all, so they're already fantasy creatures. Why would it be anymore fantastical for them to have red hair? Especially since Ariel's shade of red hair isn't natural to white people anyway so by that logic, even a white actress playing her should be illogical and out of place.

Disney Duster wrote: Seeing a non-white mermaid with red hair is totally different from pretending a man is a woman no matter if you say bullsh*t or anything else.

It isn't different at all. At least be consistent instead of cherry-picking based on your own preferences.

Disney Duster wrote:Well it depends how fantasy the movie goes. If it's set the the Meditteranean in the 1800's like the original film having any race other than white (even though they can be Greek, Spanish, Italian, etc.) be the royals of that kingdom would have to be taken with the same suspension of disbelief as a non-white with red hair.

OK, but then I think she shouldn't be the only one with an unrealistic hair color. Then we would understand it's something normal in that world. Like in the animated movie Storks, there people had hair of all the colors of the rainbow.

JeanGreyForever wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:But if they wanted more realism they could also have in Ariel's transformation her hair turn to a natural "human" color.

That would be an interesting take especially since the 1976 Russian version of the film does just that. With her having seafoam green/mint hair that changes to blonde when she becomes human.

That could be a good solution, Disney Duster. And it's curious they've already used that idea in a film version of the fairytale.

So who'd you guys like to see cast as Scuttle?

Thanks JeanGreyForever and DB8. I forgot about the Russian green hair becoming blonde. How did I forget?! And yeah we can have other merpeople with unrealistic hair besides Ariel.

Let me try to explain, I hope, why I feel the man playing a woman thing is different from a red-haired non-white. With the red hair on a non-white, we are shown something and asked to believe it is real. If we are presented with a man who we are supposed to see as a woman, we are asked to change in our minds what we see before us to something different than exactly what we are seeing.

To put it simpler, there's being asked to see a non-white mermaid with red hair as a non-white mermaid with red hair, and then there's being asked to see a man...as a woman.

I am not against drag or transexuals especially since I've played woman (including Disney's Cinderella and Cruella DeVille) in my gay chorus, I just feel like the serious and realism (as in fantasy but done in a realistic manner) feel of The Little Mermaid will be gone. But that Glenn Close thing does make me at least reconsider and think a man might work.

Margo Martindale as Ursula. What do you guys think? I don’t know if she can sing, but I think she’d be amazing! She’s funny, and I also think she could be menacing and scary.

Sicoe Vlad wrote:Margo Martindale as Ursula. What do you guys think? I don’t know if she can sing, but I think she’d be amazing! She’s funny, and I also think she could be menacing and scary.

Ooh, that's actually a good idea.

Ugh, the lack of any more news is driving me crazy.