DVDizzy Forum

I know this is post is older than shit but I have news to share with yall

I have been wondering why they have canceled the Platinum Edition of Alice and Dumbo and Fantasia for YEARS
I bugged Disney about it for a while and I finally go an answer

Yes, Alice and Dumbo are indeed part of the Vault, the treaded Vault.

As it turns out, they fucked up the Schedule and released everything on special. Alice was going to go into the Vault some time after it's blu ray, same with Dumbo. But because of the Success of Tim Burtons Alice, the film got a sequel announced very soon afterwards, and because of that Disney decided to hold off from Vaulting the 60th anniversary until then. Dumbo went through something kind of similar. They decided to release it on special and kind of left it hanging in mid air, not exactly knowing what to do with it, but they are probably keeping it out for the live action remake (I guess they knew about that all along).

All I know is: The Person I talked to via Disney Home Entertainment said that the 2 films are indeed part of the Disney Vault marketing tool.

There is no certainty if they will be released on Diamond (though I guess I can see Alice in 2016, to cross promote Tim Burton Sequel).

But they will go back into the vault eventually, according to the person I talked to.

As for previous comments.

Alice in Wonderland is indeed critically acclaimed, sure not as much as something like Dumbo or Pinocchio, but neither is Peter Pan.

Yes Walt hated Alice but he also hated Sleeping Beauty, Dalmatians, and Peter. His opinions of the film as well as the critical opinions of the film initially are outdated and irrelevant. The movie is VERY successful on DVD, the film is exploited in marketing and is very successful, as is Dumbo (though not as much).

Pocahontas won't happen in a million years. sorry, but critics LOATH that movie. The Disney Vault includes films that make them look good. No matter how much money it makes they're not going to release a film that will make them look bad (otherwise Robin Hood would be in there).

All of the post Lion Disney films of the 90s are looked upon by the Disney company as a MEH success overall. It has fans but most people won't say that they are the best Disney movies out there. It shows since they don't make as much money as the others, they just...exist.

I'm sure the topic has been brought up in shareholder meetings such as
let's make Meg a Disney Princess
let's put Mulan in the Vault
etc.

but whenever it is I imagine it's met with Awkward Smiles and............"nooooooooooo....."
And at this point I don't really blame them.


Bottom Line, Alice and Dumbo are in the Vault

And from what I suspect Tangled, Wreck it Ralph and Frozen will join them in the future


Unless they stop the Vault thing altogether (come on we all see that coming)

We haven't seen a new film get the Vault treatment yet (nothing that has come out theatrically since Disney started releasing DVDs), so it'll be interesting to see if they continue it with newer releases (like pikachufan mentioned Tangled, WiR, & Frozen)...

seems as though all of the films prior to the Aristocats; and, the "Renaissance" films are what the company relegates to "Vault" status.

I did not know that Walt hated so many of his movies.

The only Animated Disney films that Walt Disney made himself that Don't get the Vault treatment is the Packaged films of the 40's (pretty obvious) and the Sword in the Stone.

Over the past 50 years, that movie has gotten the OK attitude from Disney, it might as well have come out in the 70's , since that attitude mirrors all the 70's movies.

Financially it did OK
Critically it did....OK-ish
Commercial Market doesn't go much further than being iconic

It isn't a critical gem like the movie of Disney's Golden Age
Isn't a never ending money geyser like Cinderella and Peter Pan
Didn't gain a cult following like Alice or Sleeping Beauty

It
Just
Exists

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I suppose HATE is a strong word, but if he did Hate any of his Animated films, those would be it.

Like Alice, Walt felt Peter Pan lacked warmth, mainly in the form of Peter being a giant douche and Wendy not interesting/not martyred enough to care about. The only reason why he wasn't as public about it like Alice is because Peter Pan actually made some decent numbers on it's first release (not as much as Cinderella but it did make money)

Sleeping Beauty frustrated him, as well as the animators, because it was lacking in character. They felt they went to far to make it as Anti Snow White and Cinderella as possible, making the main heroin boring and they felt like Maleficent was a one dimension character. Basically, they didn't like how the movie was about THE FAIRIES (ironic considering that is exactly why people like it today).

With Dalmatians, it wasn't so much the movie, Walt just didn't like the art style, he liked the painterly style of Bambi or the early 50's movies, not this contemporary etchy-sketchy style.

But, with all due respect to the old guy, he's dead

He's been dead for almost half a century, and his opinions are irrelevant.

While I understand (while not agree) with his opinions of SB, 101, and Peter, I disagree with his opinion that Alice lacked heart. I felt it had plenty of heart, Alice was one of the most interesting and well developed main character in a Disney movie, even today. Just because she wasn't martyred like Cinderella and Dumbo doesn't mean it lacks warmth.

Adjusted for Inflation Alice went on and made about 220 Million, just about the same as Cinderella (about 250 million). considering the fact that Cinderella was released in theaters twice as much. That's really impressive on Alice's part. Even though I know it's just a marketing tool and makes little to no difference in releases, It's comforting to know that Alice, one of my favorite movies of all time, is in the Vault after all.



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I think that it's pretty obvious the New renaissance is going to go in there soon enough, it's pretty telling seeing as though they didn't release Frozen on 3D blu ray in the US. I doubt they will be in the Diamond line up, but most likely the next one.

I disagree with your assessment of the 'late' Renaissance films. I don't know where this myth began that no movie after Lion King made money, but, the fact is, Pocahontas and Hunchback and Tarzan all out-performed or performed around the same as Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast (and, in Tarzan's case, Aladdin). True, none did Lion King business. But, if we look at Lion King as a fluke, the whole period was a series of ups and downs. Mermaid! Up! Rescuers Down Under! Wayyyyy down! Beauty! Up! Aladdin! Way up! Lion King wayyyyyy up! Pocahontas! Back down to Beauty numbers! Hunchback! Slightly LESS than Pocahontas/Beauty numbers, but not by much! Hercules! Dowwwnnn (to Mermaid numbers!). Mulan! Up...slightly. (But NOT as much as Pocahontas or Hunchback.) Tarzan! Back up to ALADDIN numbers... It was a weird period. Marketing had a lot to with it, I think. That's obvious in the case of Rescuers, which wasn't marketed AT ALL. But, just because some of these films 'underperformed' in the company's eyes 20 years ago, they've been written off and none have gotten the proper reassessment they deserve. Would Pinocchio, Fantasia, Bambi or Alice be the classics they are without their re-releases and critical/commercial 'second chances' (or third, or fourth chances)? It's tough to say. I think those Post-Lion King films are, in many cases, more enjoyable than Lion King and, in the case of Hunchback and Hercules and Tarzan, more heartfelt than Aladdin. And I've always said that, one day, Hunchback, Hercules, Mulan and Tarzan are ALL going to be seen as classics. Just because the company ignores them NOW doesn't mean that, when the history books are written, they aren't going to be included because--GASP!--they didn't perform as well as the LION KING!

You make a very good point but....

There is such a thing as a movie making a lot of money and having everything else fluke. Tarzan did about as well as Wreck it Ralph and Tangled.But Tangled and Wreck it Ralph are hugely praised, The fact that that movie doesn't get the overall praise that the others did. Some people do, but I find that most don't point to Tarzan as the best, in fact I think that's one of the reasons why they decided not to make Jane a Disney Princess.

World Wide gross is just one aspect.
The Little Mermaid for example, adjusted for inflation made less than any other of the 16 Vaulted movies (about 169 million or so)

But that movie makes fat stacks on stacks on home video.

Tarzan made more than TLM adjusted for inflation and non-inflated.
but the home video sales...........

not so much.


Also, as I've stated before there is a lot more than just making money. It has to be critically acclaimed, ranging from critics liking it (Peter Pan) to seeing it as a deity of animation (Pinocchio). Pocahontas is not that movie (the others are, I guess, though the Hunchback might be on edge).

And finally, they must be commercially exploited, you don't see the 5 films in the marketing as much which says a lot about Disney's attitude on the movie, need I say more.

But your absolutely right, they do have a chance of going in the Vault and they do have a chance of gaining a cult following. But the home video sales and current, universal attitudes of the movie are........well this leads Disney to make awkward smiles and say: "nooooooooooo.......". OH I'm sure some of them will, Its hard to find anyone between the ages of 14-29 that doesn't think Mulan is the greatest thing ever.
But it's foolish to make marketing decisions based on predictions. ANY Disney movie could gain a cult following, any of them. This time in 10 years the Sword in the Stone could be the Next Frozen, you never know.


But don't take the Vault thing so personally, it doesn't change the movie's value at all.

If it were up to me I would replace Lion King with Robin Hood.

Look at Peter Pan, it's pretty racist.

Does the Vault title make it any less racist?
Nope! It's still Racist
It's the Same with all the Vaulted Disney movies, it doesn't make a difference at it's core.

This is a marketing tool focused on distribution and market control, not so much what Disney sees as the greatest of the greats, that's just a tagline.

You make a great prediction and I respect it and acknowledge it could happen . But I was referring to Disney's attitude on the films NOW. And now, well, let's just say It wouldn't surprise me if after a shareholder meeting Disney decides to take Mulan and Pocahontas out of the Disney Princess line up (doubt it will but It wouldn't surprise me).