DVDizzy Forum

Posted: **Sun May 15, 2005 5:08 pm**

I really dont have too much of a problem with new version of Pochantas. I have been waiting for it for so long and I love the song " If I never knew you". I mean I'll admitt that the animation looks kind of werid, but I think its like Disney Kid says its just because we have seen the movie so many times.

And as for other movies that have had animation put back in. I didnt like the Lion King version to much but I enjoyed the Beauty and the Beast Edition.

Posted: **Sun May 15, 2005 6:39 pm**

Something I forgot...
About the flashback, it has always been there and was not included as a filler. When making the sequence, the directors were unsure of what to do with it. Since it is all set inside a tent, there weren't many visual options, so they included a flashback there.

Posted: **Sun May 15, 2005 7:58 pm**

And animation is expensive...

And Disney is poor? Yeah, they are cheap at times. But look at all the millions they put into huge box office failures. Atlantis, Treasure Planet, Home on the Range...Why not put a few extra dollars into a longer song? It's not like they had to reanimate the entire movie.

Posted: **Sun May 15, 2005 8:00 pm**

i don't think it needed to be any longer. it's like the title song to beauty and the beast, any more would ruin it.

Posted: **Sun May 15, 2005 8:06 pm**

Well, admittedly, I haven't seen the Special Edition of Pocahontas...YET!...but when I did see clips of the new sequences, I did think that the use of flashbacks was cheap. Montages and fuzzy borders are always a sign of melodgrama.

However, I trust the reviews that the sequence is nice and well-thought out. From what I know about the movie, the flashback sequence was always there in initial scripts.

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2005 2:43 pm**

Siren wrote:I
Lion King's animation from original to the addition was smooth. But the song was not what I would have chose. If Disney should have chosen ANY song out of the Broadway show, it should have been either Shadowlands or Endless Night. I mean besides "I went to find help." line from Nala, there was little else there. I mean, what was she looking for for help? It was bad, yeah, but worth traveling all those miles, alone, through a desert and then into an unfamiliar jungle? And then when she comes upon the first male lion who maybe he could help her, she just makes the fight worse. So I never bought the whole "I went to find help." thing. When I got the soundtrack to Lion King, it added a much better dimension to Scar and Nala. She wasn't looking for help essentially, just trying to escape Scar and his madness and the fact that he pretty much was going to rape her. So yeah, go through the scorching desert to avoid that. I can understand that. It would also be a big reason for her to be wary of any male lion. So if any song, Shadowlands would have been beautiful. Endless Night is a close second.

ouh! that is so true! It would have been really beautiful, that´s an awesome song, and it has the same tune as the Hans Zimmer score for "this land" (like "if I never knew you" from Pocahontas and hunchback´s deleted song "someday"); but unfortunately Disney almost algoes goes the marketing-kiddy-easy way than the cooler-artsy-fans way, that´s why they picked an Elton John track for a cub simba number...

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2005 5:01 pm**

I didn't personally like the flashback, which is a shame cuz I really do like the song. I dont like flashbacks in general, unless they're necessary to the context, I think they display a general lack of creativity.

I have an issue with the cover as well; as a whole, it has a nice composition, however what is with the conspicuous absence of John Smith? Granted, he's on the back side, but as a main character, he belongs of the cover art, which instead features the inclusion of both Nakoma and Powhatan, both of whom have considerably less significant roles than Smith.

Not to point fingers, but it seems the political correctness has once again reard it's head.

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2005 8:20 pm**

my suggestion ( too late for it anyhow)

instead of flashback. they could fantasize on the perfect imaginary world or the lack of it had they not met or separated from one another.the vision of their perfect world is shattered as nakoma calls out to pocahontas and shake her out into reality. something like the come what may sequence in moulin rouge.

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2005 10:42 am**

Lady Stardust wrote: I have an issue with the cover as well; as a whole, it has a nice composition, however what is with the conspicuous absence of John Smith? Granted, he's on the back side, but as a main character, he belongs of the cover art, which instead features the inclusion of both Nakoma and Powhatan, both of whom have considerably less significant roles than Smith.

Not to point fingers, but it seems the political correctness has once again reard it's head.

But perhaps they were showing the two sides. One side (the front) had the natives (Pocahontas, Nakoma, Powhatan), and the other side (the back) had the Englishmen (Smith, Radcliffe).

And since I haven't seen Pocahontas in years, I thought the animation was pretty good for the new song, which I'm in love with at the moment. The flashback, I thought, was fitting, because it was showing their relationship. Though they could've done more than just take bits of Colors of the Wind. Why not some stuff with Smith meeting Grandmother Willow? Or how about when they're just talking?

Escapay

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2005 12:56 pm**

Siren wrote:
And animation is expensive...
And Disney is poor? Yeah, they are cheap at times. But look at all the millions they put into huge box office failures. Atlantis, Treasure Planet, Home on the Range...Why not put a few extra dollars into a longer song? It's not like they had to reanimate the entire movie.

Well, that's why they're poor

Seriously. The other deleted songs had work already done on them before they were animated. I can see no real reason for choosing to add The Morning Report to the Lion King other than it was a short song and as a result it would be cheaper to animate. It adds nothing - not a sausage - the the narrative of the film, in fact given the sequence it replaces it probably could be argued it takes something away from the narrative.

Somebody at Disney was either looking at the finances and thinking "what's the minimum we can do to draw audiences to the IMAX screening?" or was very, very stupid.

Posted: **Wed May 18, 2005 12:38 am**

finally! i got my copy of poca dvd along with the incredibles which has long been overdue.

I LOVE THIS DVD even if i've seen half of the bonus materials before. the new scene, well i had problem adjusting to it at first but it wasnt as odd as some ppl have complained about. granted the new colors took some time to get used to. especially when poca's a bit too yellowish for my liking but at least the forest is green. oh yeah, john pomeroy is an over the top animator. the mouth movement is rather funny but i cant imagine it any other way. so its okay i guess. can't wait to watch it again and again. and can't wait for hunchback and hercules...fully restored.

oh have anyone else noticed that john pomeroy is so into rotoscoping. in the animation clip for john smith he sort of move and walk like milo and somehow....yes...dimitri.

Posted: **Wed May 18, 2005 3:58 pm**

is the restoration of animated films really restoring the original lustre and color of the originals? i don't think so. unless these were the colors intended by the artists but couldn't be accomplished by the technology back then.

for example.

1) the enchanted glade shot right after just around the riverbend.
in previous dvds it had a touch of purple to the sky but now its all bluish tone.

2)if i never knew you scene.
it was light blue in the original version but now it has become dark blue and little light of yellow at the very end.

3)honor to us all
when mulan was having her makeup, the original version was a bit reddish and in the new dvd edition everything is bluish-green-gray.

im sure its not my tv setting.can anyone post picture comparisons of this? im pretty sure of my theory because i memorize these movies by heart. and nothing from pocahontas can escape my eagle eye.

oh one more thing, while listening to the french audio track of the special edition, i noticed that the french dub didn't use the new score preceeding the added song. it just fades the original score up to the point when the song is starting. and what a lazy job done on the pole holding john smith. its not even dimensional and size-inconsistent. i have no other qualms besides that. i shall enjoy the dvd again for the millionth time now.

Posted: **Wed May 18, 2005 4:18 pm**

Pocahontas and Mulan were both animated using the CAPS system. The CAPS system scans the animator's cleaned-up drawings onto a computer, and the cels are colored there. The Rescuers Down Under was the first to fully use this (The Little Mermaid experimented with this, but I have no idea what specific scenes were used). The new DVD transfers you see for these two films and others like Aladdin and The Lion King were transferred directly from these digital files, so the colors you see are the colors that were meant to be seen all along. The only CAPS film that's questionable in this regard is Beauty and the Beast. I believe the visual look for that film was tweaked specifically for the IMAX and DVD releases, though I have no real evidence to back that up (maybe someone who saw the film in theaters back in 1991 can help verify this?).

It could be possible that your TV settings are off, too. Use the THX optimizer feature (which all THX-certified Disney DVD's have). It helps a lot in getting an accurate picture on your TV screen.

Posted: **Wed May 18, 2005 4:23 pm**

It's also not particularly accurate to rely upon a VHS cassette as to a film's true look. Videos decompose and distort and are typically a poor indication of what a film should look like. Factor in 9 years of playing into it, and what you're used to may not be what's 'right.'

Posted: **Wed May 18, 2005 4:46 pm**

Speaking of judging a DVD/VHS by the cover...

Take for example...

Looks like some lame kiddie movie, with really poor animation, huh? Perhaps a comedy?

That dragon you see is suppost to be Gorebash. But see this screenshot from the movie...

You can see much of the facial structure is wrong. Specially the bushy green eyebrows and the curly horns.

The wizard...well, his robes are all wrong and his face is too smooth and soft in the VHS cover. See here...

So in all truth, a movie shouldn't be judged on the cover, no more then a book or person. Lion King (first VHS release), as mentioned before, IMO is the worst Disney cover ever

Posted: **Wed May 18, 2005 11:22 pm**

but it produces the same result on my computer as well.. but really thats how i remember it upon initial laserdisc and theatrical release.

and thru observation some dirt did escape the restoration process and remain part of the artwork. like static dots on the sky and some other parts.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2005 4:03 pm**

If the dots are static, then that isn't film dirt or grain; it's the actual brushstroke of the artist's artwork. Like I said, Pocahontas was transferred directly from its original, digital source, so there's no film involved in this process whatsoever.

Posted: **Mon May 23, 2005 7:43 am**

tttt wrote:Hi everyone.
I had the laserdisc box set. So I knew the sequence. The rough animation was beautiful in the first place so what they did with the clean animation is ok. but I disagree with what I read in a review. I'm pretty sure the flashback was not meant to be in the final cut. It was just there to fill a blank for test screenings while the movie was still in production. I have no proof of course but I'm sure of that. there's never been a flashback sequence in a "classic". it's just cheap. so I'm really disappointed with it because it doesn't even make any sense. they can't remember all these colors of the wind moments for instance because for me, those moments have not actually happened. they were more poetic illustrations of pocahontas' speech. so it's really heavy to have them repeated and it cancels their first power. and the blur effect? it would be acceptable... in a tv show.
but what HORRIFIED me is the unexpected reprise of the song near the end of the film. that is too much. the idea of having them reprise the song ruins a solemn moment. and the animation! it must have been made by the people who make the sequels because it has the same filthy quality: HYPERTROPHY. pocahontas looks like on the dvd cover: it's not her. and smith!!! he has that exagerated hugh grant eyebrow movement and over-acted opera singer lip movement which makes the moment ridiculous when it should be dramatic. they ruined the movie!

aren't the colors too bright on the dvd ? when we first see pocahontas (on her waterfall), she is orange.

Why not just watch the original theatrical release on the dvd? You have the option

Posted: **Mon May 23, 2005 8:03 am**

tttt wrote:Hi everyone.
I had the laserdisc box set. So I knew the sequence. The rough animation was beautiful in the first place so what they did with the clean animation is ok. but I disagree with what I read in a review. I'm pretty sure the flashback was not meant to be in the final cut. It was just there to fill a blank for test screenings while the movie was still in production. I have no proof of course but I'm sure of that. there's never been a flashback sequence in a "classic". it's just cheap. so I'm really disappointed with it because it doesn't even make any sense. they can't remember all these colors of the wind moments for instance because for me, those moments have not actually happened. they were more poetic illustrations of pocahontas' speech. so it's really heavy to have them repeated and it cancels their first power. and the blur effect? it would be acceptable... in a tv show.
but what HORRIFIED me is the unexpected reprise of the song near the end of the film. that is too much. the idea of having them reprise the song ruins a solemn moment. and the animation! it must have been made by the people who make the sequels because it has the same filthy quality: HYPERTROPHY. pocahontas looks like on the dvd cover: it's not her. and smith!!! he has that exagerated hugh grant eyebrow movement and over-acted opera singer lip movement which makes the moment ridiculous when it should be dramatic. they ruined the movie!

aren't the colors too bright on the dvd ? when we first see pocahontas (on her waterfall), she is orange.

Hi! Could you please tell me what new Pocahontas are you talking about and where can I find it?Or it's just this new DVD anniversary release?

Posted: **Mon May 23, 2005 8:04 am**

The new DVD aniversary release

DVDizzy Forum

HORRIFIED with the new Pocahontas...

Re: HORRIFIED with the new Pocahontas...

Re: HORRIFIED with the new Pocahontas...