DVDizzy Forum

Alice in Wonderland and Dumbo.

My personal favorite, The Black Cauldron, would have to be included as well.

I think the first five classics should be PE's, that's why I give my hopes on Fantasia (which is they consider on releasing?), but it's no sure yet. The other would definetely be Robin Hood.

Since "platinum" signifies the "best," I think there should be some defintie criteria for inclusion as a Disney DVD release. First, the quality of animation. Second, the impact said film has had during its release(s). Third, the popular and critical fame attached to said film. Fourthly, innovation.

Considering such criteria, there are many Disney animated features that (in my opinion) are not deserving of the Platinum treatment. Here's my list of "unworthies" and why:

(1) Black Cauldron: dull story, failure at box office.

(2) The Aristocrats: dull story, same old vocal talent (how many times can Phil Harris be used?), "scratchy" animation, forgettable songs, forgettable villain.

(3) The Great Mouse Detective: entertaining, but a wash-out, overall.

(4) Oliver and Company: entertaining, but it's all been done before. Plus, I'm really bothered by the contemporary (circa 1987) music.

(5) Fantasia 2000: uneven. The "intros" by present day "stars" was quite lame. Plus, I have absolutely NO idea why Disney decided to include the Sorceror's Apprentice from the original!

(6) Robin Hood: again that awful "scratchy" animation! And Phil Harris, too! Forgettable score and songs. A failure.

(7) Bedknobs and Broomsticks: Mary Poppins redux. Ugh! Not even Angela Lansbury could save this one!

(8) Pocahontas: too much tinkering with history. "Silent" animal sidekicks. Good songs, but the animation bothered me.

(9) The Rescuers and The Rescuers Down Under: forgettable.

(10) The Jungle Book: the only thing this has going for it are the songs, especially "Bare Necessities" and "I wanna be like you." Otherwise, Phil Harris, that annoying kid, and the scratchy animation can take a hike! I honestly think this has won a place in animation history because it was the last film Walt worked on. Well, he also worked on "The Happiest Millionaire" and "Blackbeard's Ghost" right before he did, and are THOSE classics?

(11) Sword in the Stone: scratchy animation (why is it that the Disney animators went to this crude, very odd way of drawing in the 60's? It began with 101 Dalmations and went up through into the early 70's!). No wonder their films started to falter. I much prefer the polished look of the pre 1960 films and the post 70's stuff.

(12) The Lion King: you know, I really don't know why people love this movie so much. I hated it! Loud, obnoxious (the singing voice of the young lion made me cringe), and just too crude in spots! What IS the appeal of this film?


Now, for the one's I feel SHOULD be Platinum:

(1) Pinocchio: why is this just a "Gold" issue? It contains an Academy Award winning song, introduced Jiminy Cricket, and is one of Walt's outstanding films!

(2) Peter Pan: another "gold" issue. Considering Michael Jackson loved this film enough to alter his face for it, can't we at least give it a Platinum treatment?

(3) Cinderella: nuff said.

(4) Fantasia: again, a classic in every regard!

(5) Dumbo: classic. No two ways about it.

(7) Song of the South: a long time coming!

(8) The Little Mermaid: without a doubt!

(9) Lilo and Stitch: believe it or not, I think this film perfectly embodies the Disney mantra: it's funny, beautifully animated, and the music is timeless!

(10) Lady and the Tramp: A definite classic!

(11) 101 Dalmations: though I hate the scratchy drawing, the villain is classic Disney!

(12) Toy Story: definitely. A ground-breaker!

That's it for me!

Rod

You don't like The Lion King? You're the first person I know that doesn't like it! I'm about to faint!

yendor wrote:(12) The Lion King: you know, I really don't know why people love this movie so much. I hated it! Loud, obnoxious (the singing voice of the young lion made me cringe), and just too crude in spots! What IS the appeal of this film?

wow...

Rescuers
Mouse Detective
Oliver
Dumbo
Atlantis

sealightbreeze wrote:Atlantis

Finally, someone who appreciates this work of art! But you know, the current Collector's Edition is by far superior to some of Disney's recent PEs, and it's still available. No need for it to be included in the Platinum line in my opinion..

yendor wrote:Since "platinum" signifies the "best," I think there should be some defintie criteria for inclusion as a Disney DVD release. First, the quality of animation. Second, the impact said film has had during its release(s). Third, the popular and critical fame attached to said film. Fourthly, innovation.

Considering such criteria, there are many Disney animated features that (in my opinion) are not deserving of the Platinum treatment. Here's my list of "unworthies" and why:

Unfortunately, the criteria that you listed for the non-inclusion list (and even the inclusion list) are very subjective. And you didn't even mention box office numbers for the releases (which was one of the criteria you mentioned at the top). In which case, Robin Hood, The Rescuers, and several other movies would be included (Robin Hood had the highest box office returns for any animated movie up until that point in time and was succeeded by The Rescuers). It is impossible to please every one with these releases because everyone thinks X movie is better than Y movie. I'll respond to your examples though,

In terms of animation quality, it's all a matter of style really, and everyone will have different views on this subject. Thus, I will strike it from the qualifications due to the fact that it can not be ascertained objectionably. All Disney films are polished, and if a movie looks "rough", that's the way it's supposed to look. Now, if you're refering to the quality of animation in regards to character movement, expression, etc. all Disney movies are about on the same level in that regards and isn't that telling of the movie as a whole in terms of it's "worthiness"

I'm not sure about the impact of most films, but where I do know, I've noted (Most of this information is taken from Leonard Maltin's book "The Disney Films").

You must keep in mind that many reviewers were VERY critical of Disney during his life, and thus using this as a guide might remove some of the popular classics from the "best" line.

Finally, innovation, you'll see as noted in the individual reviews below

The Black Cauldron: I personally REALLY enjoyed this movie, and would love to see it in the Platinum line. The story was really great, and very mature. It was something different for Disney. True though, it was a box office flop, and probably automatically excluded from Platinum line status (But not from SE status, I would hope!! I wanna see a 2-discer!). The innovation in this one lies in the different direction Disney was willing to try out. The mature theme in a Disney movie is an innovation that shouldn't be overlooked

The Aristocats: Not exactly my favorite movie (Nowhere near!) But better than some other Disney flicks. The "Scratchy" animation style has never bothered me, and is a personal taste issue rather than an objectionably ascertainable issue.

The Great Mouse Detective: A Classic in every sense of the word and indeed Platinum worthy (even though, I'm not sure if the name recognition is there to warrant this). This is undoubtedly the best of the 80's Disney flicks (Barring The Little Mermaid of course, which I consider part of the "Disney Renaissance Period", and don't assosciate with a specific decade)

Oliver and Company: Largely forgettable movie that does nothing for me, and I believe it to be a little too stuck in its time. There are those here that really love it, but I'm not one of them

Fantasia 2000: I've never seen, so I'll withold comment

Robin Hood: About the furthest thing from a failure you can get, considering it got the highest box office returns for any animated feature up until that point (Yes, even beating out the Walt Disney classics). Again, the scratchy animation and Phil Harris are a matter of personal taste. A great movie overall, not as inspired as some of the classics, but definately ranks up near them.

Bednobs And Broomsticks:I agree with you, Mary Poppins wannabe. Largely forgettable (although the soccer sequence is great and hillarious)

Pocahontas: A good little flick, although far from historically accurate. I don't believe it's supposed to be, and never was meant to be (If you want a really historically inaccurate film, watch Braveheart, the Scottish here will know what I am talking about! ). It's an engaging story, and has some great songs ("Savages" and "Colours Of the Wind" are standout tracks). It also marks the close of the "DRP" and the first Disney film to be based upon history.

The Rescuers/The Rescuers Down Under: Both are fairly good movies and boast enjoyable storylines. Once again, The Rescuers boasted the highest box office returns for any animated movie released up until that point (beating out Robin Hood) and can not be pointed to as a financial failure.

The Jungle Book: You answered your own quiery with this one. You claim it's only status is that it's the last movie Walt worked on personally, but then you point to two other movies he worked on, which are not afforded the same status. Thus, there MUST be something here other than Walts involvement that sets this one out from the rest. Memorable villains (Kaa and Shere Khan are just great), good songs, and an engaging story is what does it here.

The Sword In The Stone: My personal second-favorite Disney movie (behind Aladdin). See above comments about animation. Merlin and Archimedes are absolutely hillarious. Definetely the cream of the Walt-era crop. Definetely platinum worthy (or at least 2-discer!). (Again, personal opinion, I don't believe it's done too well market wise)

The Lion King: You are the first person I've seen actually admit to not liking this movie! That's gotta say something right there

Pinnochio: On the Platinum roster now, so I don't think I need to address this one

Peter Pan, Cinderella, and Fantasia: Same as above

Dumbo: Most people here seem to think it's a great movie, but I personally don't agree. I've never really liked it. However, I believe it should be in the Platinum line as well, because of the impact it has had.

Song of the South: MASSIVELY overrated. It is enjoyable, but hardly platinum worthy. The only reason why it is so popular right now is because of the lack of availability. This is one that should stay out of the platinum line up at all costs. The only innovation here is live action/animation. However, this is nowhere near the first film to use it and thus that innovation is lessoned by a lot.

The Little Mermaid: A classic that started the "DRP". This one definetely belongs in the Platinum line due to it's classic nature, and popularity. This movie single-handedly returned Disney to the top of the game and brought back the broadway-style song driven movie, and that's where it's innovation lies

Lilo And Stitch: One of the best "modern" Disney films, and a film that definetely deserves to be in the platinum line. This one goes back to classic Disney for it's inspiration. The characters are beautifully drawn, and are done in the classic Disney styling, rounded edges (Disney had strayed away from this to it's detriment in Emperor's New Groove and Atlantis: The Lost Empire) and this is where it's innovation lies

Lady and the Tramp: The worst of the movies going into the Platinum line by far. I don't know what the appeal of this one is, but it's not my choice. I would keep it out of the line up myself.

101 Dalmatians: Just barely above Lady and the Tramp but Cruella is definetely a classic Disney villain

Toy Story: a great story that hearalded the begining of CGI movies (like it or not) and can not be ignored. In terms of innovation, this is the movie that takes the cake in that category. Not a single person can deny this movies innovation.

Just my thoughts on all of these titles. Take them as you will, and I welcome anybody to counter my points and make their own arguements for/against any movie

I don't quite see the point - if more should be included, the word "Platinum" would hardly be any more special than "Classic"...

If any, though, I guess the first five could deserve a more special status than the rest.

Lars Vermundsberget wrote:I don't quite see the point - if more should be included, the word "Platinum" would hardly be any more special than "Classic"...

If any, though, I guess the first five could deserve a more special status than the rest.

In reality there is no difference. As has been stated many times, it's just a name really and the PEs are no different than the SEs or the MEs. I'm curious as to why you would choose the first 5 over everything else though. Snow White is rather obvious, but why stop at the other 4? I'm not criticizing, I'm curious.

yendor wrote:(12) The Lion King: you know, I really don't know why people love this movie so much. I hated it! Loud, obnoxious (the singing voice of the young lion made me cringe), and just too crude in spots! What IS the appeal of this film?

OMG!! you don't like Lion King

okay let me see, The "acratchy" animation as you put it, is some of the best animation that time period had to offer, and even today is better than most TV shows, i find it somewhat appauling that from disney's vast list , you dislike so many amazing movies due to thier "scratchy" animation...but to each his own...

Movies that DESERVE 2 or 1 Disc Special Editions (Masterpiece, Special Edition,etc.)
1.Bedknobs and Broomsticks- current release sounds pretty good, but a more fleshed out "retrospective" set like this years mary poppins would be great.
2. Oliver and Company -good film, should have a 2 disc edition
3. The Great Mouse Detective - love this movie, like the current version, but wish for more features.
4.The Aristocats -should have a two disc...or a feature loaded one discer
5.Robin Hood -same as aristocats
6.Fox and the Hound -same as above.
7.Black Cauldron -should have a massive one discer, not as well known or as good for a two disc, buti love the film.
8. Emperor's New Groove -should re release the "Collector's Edition"
9. Tarzan - same as "Groove"
10. Atlantis -Same as "Groove"
11.Treasure Planet -Two Disc is a must.
12. Brother Bear - masterpiece is a must.

I not only hate The Lion King with a passion, I also despise it. Basically, it's just another coming of age saga, with overdone production numbers (something Disney feels compelled to do ever since Mermaid), blah songs, and obnoxious characters.

As for Jayden's criteria for inclusion in the Platinum line, I agree with most of them...but stuff like "Black Cauldron" and "Robin Hood" are far from the class of "Song of the South." What Oscar winning songs came from Cauldron and Robin Hood? Gee, maybe none?

And Jayden, the one difference between Jungle Book and the other films Walt worked on before his passing is that Book is animated. That's the only difference. And since Walt was and is still renowned for his animation films (over his live-action, by a longshot), that's why The Jungle Book is held in such high regard. Without that pedigree, the film falls into the Robin Hood category. Wait...you like Robin Hood. Says it all!

Crap like The Aristocrats and The Great Mouse Detective are beneath Walt Disney and the REAL classics he and his company produced. That Jayden would deem them Platinum-worthy makes me question his/her level of sophistication.

Oh, well, to each his own, I suppose!

Rod

Jayden wrote:

Lars Vermundsberget wrote:I don't quite see the point - if more should be included, the word "Platinum" would hardly be any more special than "Classic"...

If any, though, I guess the first five could deserve a more special status than the rest.

In reality there is no difference. As has been stated many times, it's just a name really and the PEs are no different than the SEs or the MEs. I'm curious as to why you would choose the first 5 over everything else though. Snow White is rather obvious, but why stop at the other 4? I'm not criticizing, I'm curious.

I totally agree, the PE name is just a marketing ploy - which based on a lot of the writings on this forum seems to work quite well...

About the first five: I'd say these mark the high point of the truly Golden Age of Disney animation - and it ended just thereafter.

Good Reason Lars. I do agree that Disney was certainly at the height of it's creativity and hasn't been able to replicate it since. Maybe one day, but for now it seems to have come down with a serious case of sequelitis that is seriously hampering much of it's potential

Oh, really, Jayden? You mean to tell me you don't equate "Robin Hood" with the first five Disney classics? I'm surprised, frankly.

Rod

yendor wrote:Oh, really, Jayden? You mean to tell me you don't equate "Robin Hood" with the first five Disney classics? I'm surprised, frankly.

Rod

In terms of creativity, it can not be denied that Disney was at his peak prior to World War 2. I may really love Robin Hood, but I can not deny that in terms of innovation it can't hold a candle to these original 5.

The original 5 were made at a time when the animated feature film was just beginning (or in the case of Snow White non-existent), and thus the innovation and experimentation done on these first films is nothing short of amazing. Ideas, and new technologies were all being tried on these films. They were doing things that had never been done before and thus I can really respect these films, even though I may not be their biggest fan.

Dumbo & The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh

honestly if disney weere to add more platinum editions i would be furious. the platinum line just needs to end after the 14. As for the other movies just release them as SE or ME.

I think that we should consider what we think the Disney Company should do with the Blue-Ray releases. The thought occured to me that they should release all the Theatrical releases in a huge collection. This way they wouldn't really detatch them from the other movies and then we wouldn't have this problem of "which movie is better". My idea is to realease them all with a roman numeral along the spine marking in what place they are in in realease. fr example Snow White- I, The Lion king- XXXIII, The Black Cauldron- XXVI. I got that idea from Beauty and the Beast and it's sequels. I think this will make them uniform but yet they could do whatever they want with the cover. I just find making an ultimate collection of all the disney movies appealing.

I would like to see 'The Sword in the Stone' as a part of the Platinum Editions..