DVDizzy Forum

sotiris2006 wrote:I believe not only that song should have been cut but every scene with the gargoyles too! Disney decided to make a more serious-themed/mature-oriented movie which i find very good but also tried to appeal to a younger audience with the gargoyls as a comic relief. That doesn't work! Could you imagined if Pocahontas (disney other serious film) had comic scenes like that? That is one reason why it failed at the box office. People did not know whether it was child or adult oriented? You can't have sequences like "hellfire" and "a guy like you" in the same movie, it just dosn't work...

I partly agree with you. Yes, the gargoyles should have been cut, or they should have had another character. I also agree with you that the comic relief was better in place in Pocahontas. There were a few gags from the pet animals, but they did not interfere with the overall story. And there were no anachronisms and uneccesary pop-culture references.
But to say that a movie that earned 100 million domestically 'failed at the box office' is overstating things a bit much. I hear HOND cost 50 million to make, so all the investments were returned. Sure, it earned less then a third of the domestic gross of TLK, but that was one of the top-grossing movies of all time. And don't forget that HOND also made some more millions worldwide.

The number is excellent, serves to lighten the mood a bit, and gives us a look at Quasi's personality that humanizes him even more. Despite how hopeless it is that he would end up with Esmerelda, he still fantasizes about it as a possibility and holds onto the hope like any teenager fantasizing about their crush. They don't seem to want us to feel sure about whether the gargoyles are really alive or not just as a fun thing to play at confusing us with, but I really think they are only meant to be his imagination, even if they supposedly helped in the final battle. This could still be Quasi's imagination which we are allowed to view from his point of view. The gargoyles are parts of his personality.

Not only do I think it slows down the film's momentum, I dislike the way it was animated, too cartoonish for a film as visually stunning as Hunchback.

Oh, and it's a bad song as well.

I think it should have been either totally cut or at the very least, earlier in the film. A reprise of Out There would have been more suited than the happy go-lucky feel of the song. The idea of the song was right on the mark. Give Quasi hope she loves him, so they can crush him 5 minutes later, but the songs tone was much too cheerful for the scenes building up to and immediatly after the song.

I think that nothing should be cut out from the original release, not even when it seems inappropriate to some. It was a cute song.

Well I joked years back when Disney were doing their SEs and inserting new songs into films, that the SE of Hunchback should have an SE that has something removed!

The trouble with "A Guy Like You" as most have pointed out is that is simply a mood killer and doesn't fit in with the "adult" nature of the film. It's like going to the ballet and having Joan Rivers come on half way through and talk about how old age makes body parts go south!

Which is a shame for 2 reasons a) because it does detract ever so slightly from making the film a real expectation busting unique film, which steers clear of what is included in other Disney films and b) because seen in it's own light it really is a good song, cleverly written (in fact the German lyrics of the song I think fit the song even better, in their playfullness!)

IMO the Gargoyles would have been more effective had they been part of Quasimodo's imagination and not actually alive (a la the objects in Beauty and the Beast). It would have put more focus on his loneliness.

the song I can live with. It's okay.

But If I were in the director's chair, I would have cut it and have Esmeralda sing Someday to Quasimodo instead. It's too good a song for just the ending credits. I would have found a way to include it.

I really like the song, and I like the gargoyles, too. They lighten up the story a lot...because of them, Quasimodo isn't totally alone in the belltower- they're his friends.

Prince Adam wrote:Its current place in the story is completely "out of place", and it distracts from the seriousness of what's happening-Frollo is burning Paris to the ground just to get Esmeralda for himself.

I think that the spot it's in is fine- Disney movies aren't supposed to be all serious, all the time. The film could use a lighter moment at that point, so I think that it's fine where it is.

Disneykid wrote:Quasi look more pathetic and gets pity from the audience that he'd make friends with gargoyles that weren't even alive.

I don't take pity on him because he talks with the gargoyles (I've never thought to, though). I think that it's nice that he can still be upbeat with them, that he's not always mopey and lonely. Granted, I'm sure that he'd probably rather be friends with humans, but at least he has someone.

Eeyore wrote:"Paris, the City of Lovers is glowing this evening. True, that's because it's on fire..." just doesn't fit much place else.

How can you not love a song that rhymes "Adonis" and "croissant is"?

So true, so true!

We're not sure if the gargoyles are a part of Quasi's imagination or not. You can use your own imagination on that one. I mean, for those of you who would want them to be just a part of his imagination, would you want the animators to draw a caption-bubble (like in the comics) and the gargoyles would only appear that way?

I've been told by people who worked on Hunchback and Pocahontas the following.

1.) Pocahontas was much more entertaining in it's previous incarnation where Pocahontas was younger and the animals talked. (The version with John Candy as Redfeather the Turkey)

2.) The gargoyles were added to Hunchback because of pressure from the executives to have some kid appeal.

3.) A Guy Like You was added for the kids. I'm told that the creative brain trust for the film HATED this song because it goes against the theme of every other song in the show. Many songwriters have pointed this out as well.

4.) Why was Court of Miracles removed in the stage version and not this song?

I've not seen the film in some time but I do agree that the songs does not really fit in with the film as a whole. I whould not take it out however because it is a fun song and it really did need a point with a lighter tone.

On the point of Pocahontas and being a John Candy fan I'd whould have adored the Redfeather character.

I think the animation tests of Red Feather on the 2 disc set are redubs over John's work but you can tell it was him by the spacing and acting just in the animation. I think it's Corey Burton on the actual track heard. Obviously because of rights issues since John wasn't in the final film.

UncleEd wrote:I've been told by people who worked on Hunchback and Pocahontas the following.

1.) Pocahontas was much more entertaining in it's previous incarnation where Pocahontas was younger and the animals talked. (The version with John Candy as Redfeather the Turkey)

2.) The gargoyles were added to Hunchback because of pressure from the executives to have some kid appeal.

3.) A Guy Like You was added for the kids. I'm told that the creative brain trust for the film HATED this song because it goes against the theme of every other song in the show. Many songwriters have pointed this out as well.

4.) Why was Court of Miracles removed in the stage version and not this song?

Some comments

1) I like Pocahontas the way it is. With "more entertaining" you probably mean more 'light-hearted' or 'fluffy'?
.It's not uncommon that Disney started with one concept for a movie and dropped it for another. (Jungle Book comes to mind) I think it's refreshing the animals didn' t talk for once. Why do people always want te same story elements over and over again? I would have liked to have seen it though how Disney would have pulled it of telling a story about friendship between a young girl and a grown man. It would have made the story more unique. (though probably we would have missed out on a great romance - IMO at least )

2) I think that was a wrong decision. As if kids could not enjoy the movie without them.

3) I agree with the creative brain trust!

4) Yes why? "The court of Miracles" was much more fitting for the story. This element was in the original novel.

I don't mind Pocahontas but you HAVE to remember that the ONLY reason it became a serious story is because Katzenberg was DETERMINED to win a Best Picture Oscar. There is A LOT of resentment among the animators about this. I wonder if Pocahontas had remained light hearted then if it would had done better.

I doubt small children would enjoy the film without the gargoyles but this should have been a film geared to teens, not children anyway.

I like the Court of Miracles number. It's very mysterious and playful. I'd love to know why it was cut.

UncleEd wrote:I don't mind Pocahontas but you HAVE to remember that the ONLY reason it became a serious story is because Katzenberg was DETERMINED to win a Best Picture Oscar. There is A LOT of resentment among the animators about this. I wonder if Pocahontas had remained light hearted then if it would had done better.

I doubt small children would enjoy the film without the gargoyles but this should have been a film geared to teens, not children anyway.

I like the Court of Miracles number. It's very mysterious and playful. I'd love to know why it was cut.

I know about Katzenberg's determination. But honestly, is the story of Pocahontas really something you can treat in a light hearted way? Oh yes , maybe it woud have done a little better at the box office if it was more 'fun', but then it would never have gotten the status of 'cult'movie.

UncleEd wrote:I like the Court of Miracles number. It's very mysterious and playful. I'd love to know why it was cut.

"Court of Miracles" cut from Hunchback?? I don't know what version of the film you have seen, but to my knowlegde, the song is in the film, be it a short version. It is sung when Quasimodo enters the court guided by the necklace he received from Esmeralda.

They mean it was cut from the stage show, "Der Glockner Von Notre Dame".

As for why it was cut... I vaguely recall reading that Menken never really liked the song, he felt it was rushed or something, and thus replaced it with "Tanz Der Zigeüner", a simple dance number based on an established theme.

And as to why "A Guy Like You" was kept in the stage show, I think mainly because it offers some fun staging possibilities. Plus there's typically a need for a more upbeat number in act two to liven things up, as most second acts of musicals tend to be more dramatic/darker, to which "DGVND" is no exception.

SpringHeelJack wrote:They mean it was cut from the stage show, "Der Glockner Von Notre Dame".

Than I must have overlooked that info in some post, as I was quite sure this thread was about the movie.....

"I know about Katzenberg's determination. But honestly, is the story of Pocahontas really something you can treat in a light hearted way? Oh yes , maybe it woud have done a little better at the box office if it was more 'fun', but then it would never have gotten the status of 'cult'movie."

I guess we'll never know unless we see the story reels. But you're only looking at through the version we have now. In the old version everything we know would have been different.

"Than I must have overlooked that info in some post, as I was quite sure this thread was about the movie..... "

Well, you thought wrong silly girl! Did you miss all the times we were saying the musical or what?

UncleEd wrote:"I know about Katzenberg's determination. But honestly, is the story of Pocahontas really something you can treat in a light hearted way? Oh yes , maybe it woud have done a little better at the box office if it was more 'fun', but then it would never have gotten the status of 'cult'movie."

I guess we'll never know unless we see the story reels. But you're only looking at through the version we have now. In the old version everything we know would have been different.

Well, is there any way to see the old version story reels?
Wonder what 'old' story versions of HOND there are. Every Disney movie goes through some changes, I suppose.

Only if you worked on the films and have a copy I guess.

Sure, all films go through changes but this was different. This was a complete overhaul on a film that was supposed to have been working just so an Oscar could be won. That's what bugs me about it. We may have been cheated out of an even better movie and don't know it.