DVDizzy Forum

Disney Duster wrote:Oh, ok Rumplestiltskin. I guess you are ok with magical beings like fairies but not those using religious or nature magic. Or maybe you just don't like nature magic. Mama Odie from Princess and the Frog just used religious magic. What was the stop-motion in The Nutcracker Suite?!

The source of the magic is irrelevant. It's the character type I'm tired of, and which usually comes in combination with a sort of "deep wisdom" and/or supernatural connection with nature. The concept is usually to take some myth or superstition that exist in the world today and make it real, which makes all outsiders and non-believers look ignorant, and give this knowledge to a selected few with the same identical personality.

The Snowflake Fairies at the end of the “Waltz of the Flowers” was made with stop-motion.

https://d23.com/5-fascinating-facts-abo ... ker-suite/

JeanGreyForever wrote:I agree with this, its become a tired cliche which Disney uses quite often. And it's not always with magical characters. After Grandmother Willow, there was Grandmother Fa in Mulan and Moana's Grandmother who both spout out wisdom while cracking one-liners. Very repetitive and boring now. The ironic thing is that when Grandmother Willow was created for Pocahontas, they did so because the tired cliche was in fact making a wise old man since originally Pocahontas was supposed to confide in Old Man River.

I agree with this, its become a tired cliche which Disney uses quite often. And it's not always with magical characters. After Grandmother Willow, there was Grandmother Fa in Mulan and Moana's Grandmother who both spout out wisdom while cracking one-liners. Very repetitive and boring now. The ironic thing is that when Grandmother Willow was created for Pocahontas, they did so because the tired cliche was in fact making a wise old man since originally Pocahontas was supposed to confide in Old Man River.

Like the old "eccentic martial arts mentor"-type? We saw some a hint of that in the baboon in Lion King, who knocks Simba hard on the head with his stick while laughing and explaining.
Some of the scenes with Moana's grandmother were extremely predictable. Like when she dies, and a spirit version of the manta ray shortly after join others like it in the ocean. Or when she suddenly appears before Moana on the boat, smiling knowingly. That stuff has been used many times, including in the Stephen King miniseries Bag of Bones.

Rumpelstiltskin wrote: Now I see what you mean. Fairy godmothers is not a problem because they are already magical, and they are not "noble savages". Being a little whimsical is not the same as having a tiresome personality with a bit of Yoda thrown in. Like the ancestor trees in Pocahantas, the old lady in Brother Bear or Moana's grandmother (not sure about the old woman in The Princess and the Frog, since I have only seen the movie once an barely remembers anything).
These characters have become so cliche.

I may be wrong…? But isn’t the “noble savage” trope more characteristic of Pocahontas herself than Grandmother Willow? All the characters you listed are more wacky old ladies or teacher characters to me. I definitely don’t think of Grandmother Fa as a wise character... I think it might be the sassy grandma trope you're bored of, really.

My first post says; "No wacky old ladies who also happens to have a deep spiritual insight regarding magic or nature, or both."

Oh, I see Rumplestiltskin. And wow, that info on the Snowflake Fairies is amazing!!!

A fantasy musical set in a magical kingdom remninsent of medieval or victorian europe with an all star voice cast full of celebrties, where every animal talks , the lead is young head strong woman who speaks her mind, the villain is big over the top hammy, the lead has one or more wieser older mentor figures , There is a magical sidekick like a dragon, ghost, spirit or other supernatrual being, it has big broadway-style musical numbers, There is a tie in of Mcdonalds toys in the happy meals with the likness of the characters and the female lead can easly be headcanoned as autistic , Yeach that's pretty much all !

That's EVERYTHING i could ever want in a Disney movie !!

That's a cool list of details for your ideal Disney movie, DisneyFan97!

It should be a sceance where Iger is trying to call the spirit of Walt and Iwerks to give him ideas for films.

That's probably happening in real life.

thedisneyspirit wrote:It should be a sceance where Iger is trying to call the spirit of Walt and Iwerks to give him ideas for films.

That's probably happening in real life.

Just wanted to say glad to see you back here again!! You've been missed.

Yes glad to see you here again thedisneyspirit!

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:Oh, ok Rumplestiltskin. I guess you are ok with magical beings like fairies but not those using religious or nature magic. Or maybe you just don't like nature magic. Mama Odie from Princess and the Frog just used religious magic. What was the stop-motion in The Nutcracker Suite?!

The source of the magic is irrelevant. It's the character type I'm tired of, and which usually comes in combination with a sort of "deep wisdom" and/or supernatural connection with nature. The concept is usually to take some myth or superstition that exist in the world today and make it real, which makes all outsiders and non-believers look ignorant, and give this knowledge to a selected few with the same identical personality.

The Snowflake Fairies at the end of the “Waltz of the Flowers” was made with stop-motion.

https://d23.com/5-fascinating-facts-abo ... ker-suite/

JeanGreyForever wrote:I agree with this, its become a tired cliche which Disney uses quite often. And it's not always with magical characters. After Grandmother Willow, there was Grandmother Fa in Mulan and Moana's Grandmother who both spout out wisdom while cracking one-liners. Very repetitive and boring now. The ironic thing is that when Grandmother Willow was created for Pocahontas, they did so because the tired cliche was in fact making a wise old man since originally Pocahontas was supposed to confide in Old Man River.

I agree with this, its become a tired cliche which Disney uses quite often. And it's not always with magical characters. After Grandmother Willow, there was Grandmother Fa in Mulan and Moana's Grandmother who both spout out wisdom while cracking one-liners. Very repetitive and boring now. The ironic thing is that when Grandmother Willow was created for Pocahontas, they did so because the tired cliche was in fact making a wise old man since originally Pocahontas was supposed to confide in Old Man River.

.

Sorry , But i love thse typs of characters.

I adore older wise Grandma figure who cracks one-liners.

I want every Disney movie to a old wise and wise cracking old lady character !

I hope there are ones in Raya and the Last Dragon and Encanto.

But i'll be okey with an old lady character who is a villain to like Yzma or Lady Tremaine just as long as there is a "Old Lady character "

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:Oh, ok Rumplestiltskin. I guess you are ok with magical beings like fairies but not those using religious or nature magic. Or
I agree with this, its become a tired cliche which Disney uses quite often. And it's not always with magical characters. After Grandmother Willow, there was Grandmother Fa in Mulan and Moana's Grandmother who both spout out wisdom while cracking one-liners. Very repetitive and boring now. The ironic thing is that when Grandmother Willow was created for Pocahontas, they did so because the tired cliche was in fact making a wise old man since originally Pocahontas was supposed to confide in Old Man River.

Like the old "eccentic martial arts mentor"-type? We saw some a hint of that in the baboon in Lion King, who knocks Simba hard on the head with his stick while laughing and explaining.
Some of the scenes with Moana's grandmother were extremely predictable. Like when she dies, and a spirit version of the manta ray shortly after join others like it in the ocean. Or when she suddenly appears before Moana on the boat, smiling knowingly. That stuff has been used many times, including in the Stephen King miniseries Bag of Bones.

This isn't exclusive to Disney movies, There is a character like this in both the Broadway stage Musicals A Little Night Music & Pippin too,

And even in the Ingmar Bergman movie that inspired A Little Night Music, Smiles of a Summer Night played by Naima Wifstrand( the voice of Lady Tremaine in the frist swedish dubb of Cinderella). Fiction has a long tradition of wise yet comedic world weary older lady characters and these always end up inadvertently becoming some of my favorite characters in the story

rodrigo_ca wrote:A fairy-tale that is just a fairy-tale. No secret plot twist, no secret villain, no "oh we needed to upgrade this for the 21st century". Pretty songs that don't have to be epic Broadway belting songs, no meta stuff. Oh, and hand-drawn if it isn't too much to ask

Amen !

Yeah I agree. I mean I'm OK with having fun with fairy tales but it's gotten old after a while to the point where the phrase "Not your average fairy tale" has begun to ring extremely hollow. Seriously, people take issue with Disney doing the same fairy tale romantic musical thing over and over again and yet somehow having the whole "See?!!? Disney can make fun itself too!!!" thing isn't getting tiring? Not saying I hated those films or anything. I just want to see Disney make the kinds of animated movies that just tell stories with good characters that you either relate to, laugh with, or truly despise.

Also, let's go back and forth between films that are more serious and ones that are more fun and light like how Beauty and the Beast was followed up by Aladdin and Hunchback was followed up by Hercules.

Tristy wrote:Yeah I agree. I mean I'm OK with having fun with fairy tales but it's gotten old after a while to the point where the phrase "Not your average fairy tale" has begun to ring extremely hollow. Seriously, people take issue with Disney doing the same fairy tale romantic musical thing over and over again and yet somehow having the whole "See?!!? Disney can make fun itself too!!!" thing isn't getting tiring? Not saying I hated those films or anything. I just want to see Disney make the kinds of animated movies that just tell stories with good characters that you either relate to, laugh with, or truly despise.

Also, let's go back and forth between films that are more serious and ones that are more fun and light like how Beauty and the Beast was followed up by Aladdin and Hunchback was followed up by Hercules.

Just the "true love's kiss" spin was used in Enchanted (2007) ,The Princess And The Frog (2009) and Frozen (2013). Also, If you look at Kristoff, Flynn, Edward and Naveen, they're pretty much all the same character loosely based on Gaston with a more sympathetic side and a growth throughout their respective films.

rodrigo_ca wrote:A fairy-tale that is just a fairy-tale. No secret plot twist, no secret villain, no "oh we needed to upgrade this for the 21st century". Pretty songs that don't have to be epic Broadway belting songs, no meta stuff. Oh, and hand-drawn if it isn't too much to ask

This sounds exactly like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

My ideal Disney movie will always have an elder mentor grandma character !

That ore an old sinister voice type like in brave and The Black Cauldron or the most famous example the great Ursula !

I think more older voice actors should get roles and i had / have very good relation with my two grandmas( one is sadly dead )

And i think it's important good to encourage grandchild/Grandparents relations.


And i am also a sucker for the cool old lady trope. That's probably why like Maggie Smith,Angela Lansbury and Judi Dench so much.

One of my dreams is to see Angela Lansbury live, But that will likely never happen