DVDizzy Forum

Hmmm, the Puritan base of the country. Maybe!

Oh, I see how you feel, and I totally get why you feel that way.

Yes, it's true, the Enchantress got a less memorable costume, the difference being hers is alright and makes sense and Belle's yellow dress looks hideous and makes no sense. I used to be ok with it but on repeat viewings I can't abide it. Emma Watson looked absolutely great in that pink Little Women dress. I only wish that dress had had similar detail on the bottom as it did on the neckline. But really it was very pretty. Little Women was also a very good film. Hit me emotionally.

Little Women was a very emotionally heartfelt film and I still wish Jo and Laurie could get together. I think this is the first adaptation I've seen where Jo actually reconsiders and decides she'd rather marry Laurie. I don't remember that in the 90s film version with Winona Ryder and I don't think that was in the book either. The ending was very satisfying though and I wish the film was getting more awards buzz than it is.

I totally wish she had gotten with Laurie, too! I didn't know that wasn't in the book! Her with the letter was one of the best scenes. I wish it could get nominated for Best Picture, even if I want Joker to win.

I think it wasn't in the book because I don't remember that scene but I can't be sure. Going by the Golden Globes, it seems most likely that 1917 or Once Upon a Time in Hollywood will win Best Picture.

Oh. Hm. I will someday read Little Women. And I still hope for Joker.

farerb wrote:Top 5:
1. Beauty and the Beast - I love everything about this film. The characters, the music, the animation. I also like how layered this film is, you can always learn something from rewatching it and I also feel like Disney dared to take risks with it. Like making the Beast morally ambiguous and criticizing society. I also find the stories behind the scene are as interesting as the film.

I asked this before, I don't know if you saw, but I was wondering how the Beast is morally ambiguous.

Well, he doesn't start as a good guy understandably. The way he treat Maurice, whether it's not hearing his explanation or locking him away, the way he treats Belle is not goid at the start, mainly the door scene and the west wing. I think he's supposed to be that way at the beginning cause then his change is so much more rewarding. I mean Beauty and the Beast is a story about redemption and you can't have a redemption story if the protagonist doesn't start out as a bad guy, or have his morality questioned.
Not for nothing we got a lot of not so nuanced takes about "Stockholm Syndrome" or "abusive relationship" or "Gaston is just like the Beast so if Belle gave him attention he could have changed"...

Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, all of what you say is true, but when people say someone is morally ambiguous, that usually means they are neither good nor bad in their ways. They can be deemed "good" or "bad", but what they think and do is more gray than black and white. The Beast is a complex character for sure, because he has to wrestle with his emotions and choices, but he is not morally ambiguous. The Beast was black, or dark gray, now he's white. Morally ambiguous is like Elphaba from Wicked, but the book version, not the musical version, at least, not as much like the musical version.

farerb wrote:Well, he doesn't start as a good guy understandably. The way he treat Maurice, whether it's not hearing his explanation or locking him away, the way he treats Belle is not goid at the start, mainly the door scene and the west wing. I think he's supposed to be that way at the beginning cause then his change is so much more rewarding. I mean Beauty and the Beast is a story about redemption and you can't have a redemption story if the protagonist doesn't start out as a bad guy, or have his morality questioned.
Not for nothing we got a lot of not so nuanced takes about "Stockholm Syndrome" or "abusive relationship" or "Gaston is just like the Beast so if Belle gave him attention he could have changed"...

Yeah, at the beginning, he doesn't care if Maurice lives or dies. He locks him in the damp dungeon, likely without food, to die from starvation or the cold--whichever came first. Even when he throws him into the carriage after the deal with Belle, it's obvious he still doesn't care if Maurice lives or dies. He only treats Belle better out of self-interest, that he might be able to use her to break the spell. It's fitting that his redemption comes when he finds out that Maurice might be dying and lets Belle go to save him. That's why the comparison between Gaston and Beast works at the very end, too, because Gaston doesn't care about murdering the Beast any more than Beast cared about allowing Maurice to die. The way he treats Maurice at the beginning isn't much different than how he must've treated the old woman / Enchantress in disguise in the prologue--an old person with nothing of interest for himself to care about treating them well. He didn't treat people well for its own sake, only for what advantage there might be in it for him (as with Belle).

*Warning: Super-long post!!!*

I used to have this thread open on my phone for the longest time, but I never got around to ranking the films, because that's hard.

DC Fan wrote:Sleeping Beauty- Can´t believe it´s now in my top 5. But slowly learned to appreciate it as the masterpiece it is.

Same. Besides "Once Upon a Dream," I always wanted this movie on VHS growing up, but we never even so much as rented it, and the one time it was on the Disney Channel, something happened with the VCR! So it's one I have only seen as an adult, and now it is (not in Top 5) one of my favorites.

JeanGreyForever wrote:Hans cannot be Anna's true love because they've only known each other for a day but it immediately works around to make Kristoff her true love when he's known her maybe an hour longer.

Maybe it's okay because Anna and Kristoff didn't become engaged right away!?!

JeanGreyForever wrote:I love the mystery aspect of Atlantis and the actual civilization

Yes, Atlantis is amazing; it's has easily become one of my favorites, and it's one of the ones that I most often watch. It is an adventure story, and I love the teamwork, the different characters working together.

JeanGreyForever wrote:the adoption storyline in particular really moved me

Me, too. Meet the Robinsons has so much heart; it's a shame some people only see the zaniness, whether in the marketing (and they never saw the film), or the wackiness sticks out in their memories over the sentimental parts.

Disney's Divinity wrote:Sebastian having meltdowns over what Triton will say or do

I can relate to Sebastian's anxiety!!

Disney's Divinity wrote:everything with Chef Louie

A lot of people aren't big fans of him, so it's refreshing that you are. I know growing up my mom wasn't a fan of "Les Poissons," but I've always thought it was pretty funny, and also just imagine being Sebastian; we thought his anxiety was bad before!!

Disney's Divinity wrote:the ghost hands that steal Ariel's voice, Ursula's golden scroll,

Yes, the whole look of Ursula's grotto, the lighting, the colors- it sticks with you for sure.

Disney's Divinity wrote:"That's What Makes the World Go 'Round" is my favorite of the songs.

I love, love, love that song; I sing it all the time.

Disney's Divinity wrote:(the yodeling song is so WTF it's hilarious)

YES!!! I remember the first time I saw Home on the Range (I may have even had the soundtrack first...it's been half a lifetime ago!, so maybe the first time I heard the song), I thought it was the funniest thing I had ever seen. Alameda Slim is one of my favorite villains...I mean, he's a land-grabbing, yodeling cowboy! And the Willies playing off of him- it's just really funny.

Disney's Divinity wrote:The music is good, too, imo. I love "Will the Sun Ever Shine Again," "Little Patch of Heaven," and "Wherever the Trail May Lead."

The music is SO GOOD. One of my favorite soundtracks (I mean, it is Alan Menken!). I tend to sing "Little Patch of Heaven" in my bathroom all. the. time. It's always in my head.

Disney's Divinity wrote:I've never been too fond of Medusa; everything about the character feels like they were trying way too hard.

Would you rather they have used Cruella?

thedisneyspirit wrote:Sleeping Beauty- Like BATB, another totally engulfing fairy tale. There's a dreamlike atmosphere throughout the movie that I don't think I feel in any other Disney film.

I think that's a perfect way of summing up this movie!

ProfessorRatigan wrote:I think the movie is more relevant NOW in its themes of social justice than it ever was in 1996.

I watched THOND a few months ago, and I had a similar thought.

ProfessorRatigan wrote:I idolized Jafar and wanted to be him.

I'm super intrigued; can you expand on this a bit?!

Disney Duster wrote:to the warm, tender, soothing, loving voice-acting of Ilene Woods and the chilling, biting voice-acting of Eleanor Audley

I think that Cinderella and her stepmother have some of the best voice acting.

Disney Duster wrote: I wonder why I didn’t like Belle more, since she is such a princessy princess and even has what I think is the second best gown in Disney history, and she’s kind of the perfect Disney Princess for being a smart nerd and a sophisticated princess together

I grew up with B&tB and I do love it, even though it's not in my "Top" list, but I do love it. And I'm a girl whose nose has always been stuck in a book (and I remember when the movie came out, I was SO EXCITED that there was finally a brunette, not even just princess, but just any Disney girl (Wendy and Anita had more auburn hair)), and she's beautiful and kind, and I really like Belle, but I'm with you- I don't know why she's not higher up on my list. But she's great.
(I'm typing my thoughts as I read, and JeanGreyForever brought this up, too!)

JeanGreyForever wrote:Belle has a lot in common with me in terms of likes and personality but for some reason she was never my favorite either. Even though I'm a bookworm like her, it used to astonish me that some people made her their favorite just because she likes to read. That didn't seem like a substantial enough reason for her to be my favorite.

Disney Duster wrote:Out of all the Disney films I have seen, there has not been one I greatly dislike.

Same! I have seen them all, and for me, there's something to enjoy in all of them.

Disney Duster wrote:I like all the music in Robin Hood, and you know, I actually think Robin is cute. No, I am not a furry lol. I like his character and his outfit, even if he's not like an outstanding character in the Disney pantheon.

Same!

JeanGreyForever wrote:I like Alice as a character too even if some people call her bland

Alice has personality to her, she's a bit feisty, which I love about her. I feel like she's the type of girl that won't take crap, but at the same time, she has her sensitive side. I can relate to "Very Good Advice," and I feel for her.

Disney's Divinity wrote:the maudlin close-up shots of Percy and Meeko during as if we're supposed to compare their enmity for one another to the settlers v. the Native Americans, if they could only get along

I personally like that Percy and Meeko are also going through what the humans are going through; sure, Percy and Meeko aren't going to go to war or anything, but I...I wish I knew how to decribe it; I guess it's more of a feeling, but I do like that they have a parallel story.

Disney Duster wrote:And later in my life he and my cousins loved to quote, "Daddy I love him!" "No!" because it was so dramatic!

That's a super cute memory! <3

JeanGreyForever wrote:And that dramatic moment you mentioned when Ariel accidentally proclaims her love for Eric to her father is one of my favorites.

I agree- as a kid, it didn't make me too emotional, but I loved that scene, but as an adult- I relate so much to Ariel, as far as her parent not allowing her to be who she wants to be, how she is being pushished for being herself- it's one of the most emotional Disney moments for me.
(And Disney Duster said it well!):

Disney Duster wrote:But the moment Ariel says she loves Eric is one of the great scenes of cinema

JeanGreyForever wrote:It makes me wonder if Tangled would be as big a success as it was with the original title.

Maybe the answer lies deep within one of the Tangled threads, but I wonder how it did in countries where "Rapunzel" was the title, vs. countries where it was named "Tangled" or anything other than "Rapunzel."

JeanGreyForever wrote:Considering it kept its original title in European markets, it makes me wonder how much of an issue this actually was or perhaps Americans are just more sexist and obsessed with gender norms.

[/quote][/quote]

My Top 5:
1. The Black Cauldron- Duh! I love the characters- I think that Gurgi's growth is wonderful, I love his look, his voice, his mischievous nature. I love Hen Wen; not only is she adorable, and being a psychic is super-cool, but the ordeal that pig went through- whoa. I think it's neat that Taran has his dreams, and while he doesn't become a true knight or a warrior, he battles evil and saves the world, so that is HUGE!! I like that Eilonwy has her attitude and isn't a straightforward sweet young princess. I like the banter and will-they-or-won't-they between Taran and Eilonwy. Fflewddur has some great moments. Creeper is a great character. The Horned King is just terrifying. He's literally trying to take over the whole world with his undead army!!!! So creepy, so evil. I love it. And the movie is absolutely gorgeous. I just always enjoy going on the adventure whenever I watch the movie.

2. Ties are allowed, right? For most of my life, I would flip-flop: Do I love The Little Mermaid or Aladdin more? I'm going to say I love them equally. I watched both so often as a kid. "Part of Your World" & "A Whole New World" were everything as a kid. I love Ariel and Jasmine- they have always been and will forever be my favorite princesses (and JeanGreyForever- you made a great point when talking about your love of Ariel, that the TV show contributed to that- I don't think I have thought of that before, but it's so true). They're both feisty and have dreams and want to experience more than they currently are- even as a little kid, I could relate on some level, but as I got older, I totally related. Eric and Aladdin are gorgeous, nice guys- what's not to love?! Flounder and Rajah are both good friends. Ursula and Jafar are both evil, but they have their funnier sides, too, so that always has appealed to me. Triton was the more overbearing dad, and he could be so intimidating!, but it was Sultan that wanted Jasmine to be married (I mean, it's not like he "created" the rule), and he kept her confined, and that put Jasmine over the brink-- I think a lot of people see the goofiness of the Sultan, but he was an overbearing dad in his own way. They both are great characters. And then we have Sebastian and Scuttle and Iago- really great supporting characters. They're just great, great movies, very captivating (can't take your eyes off the screen), and they have their funny moments (obviously Aladdin), they look amazing, the music in both is phenomenal. And I haven't even mentioned the Genie! As a kid, I definitely didn't understand all of his transformations, but he's so funny, but he can be vulnerable, and heartfelt. He's great. Like JeanGreyForever, I thought that mermaids were the best thing ever, so of course in my grandparents' pool, I pretended that I was a mermaid. And I thought that "A Whole New World" was (and IS!) the best Disney scene ever. I used to rewind and rewind and rewind that scene all the time!

I'm just going to continue with ties, if you're okay with that! It can be really hard for me to say I love one film a little more than another, when really I love them equally!

3. Pocahontas and The Princess and the Frog: I knew even before seeing either that they'd be top favorite films for me. I got the Internet for the first time in 1995, so while it wasn't what it was in later years, I liked learning about the film in a new way, and I remember loving the magazine articles and all the marketing. I remember listening to the soundtrack before seeing the film, and I was obsessed with it. I was 10, and I vividly remember being in the movie theater, and "The Virginia Company" being on, and I knew all the words, and I knew I was in for an amazing time. Pocahontas and Nakoma were so cool, diving and playing in the water, and Meeko and Flit were super cool friends. Powhatan is another dad who feels like he knows what's best for his kid (relateable, even at 10, and more so as I got older). Grandmother Willow is a great, well, grandmotherly figure. She's wise, but she's funny- I've always liked her. And I haven't mentioned the dreamboat John Smith. He's with Eric and Aladdin for me. He's handsome and wordly. He's not perfect, as far as men go, but he's exciting and intriguing. I like Thomas, too- I've always liked that he's absolutely not a perfect character, and obviously his inexperience ends up being a big plot point. I just like non-perfect characters. And Kocoum- JeanGreyForever recently discussed in another thread how...toxic for lack of a better word right now...he is, and she made a lot of great points that opened my eyes, but I always saw him as a quiet, brave type. Like I said in that other thread, I never thought that he was right for Pocahontas, but I always thought that he cared for Pocahontas, and he just wanted what he felt was right, for Pocahontas and the tribe. I love the love story, I love that it doesn't have a traditional happy ending. Ratcliffe isn't my favorite of the Disney villains, but I do like him, and he was willing to do whatever it took to get what he wanted, which is a decent quality as far as being a villain! And Wiggins (hey nonny nonny) has some funny moments! (I don't think I mentioned how much I like Percy, too, but he's adorable and a great Disney dog.)

The Princess and the Frog I followed forever online. And I remember when the concept art came out, and the character descriptions- I just knew that this was a film that I would love. And as a big Alan Menken fan, while initially I was like "How horrible that they won't let him write the music," I really love the soundtrack to this film. "Never Knew I Needed" is my favorite Disney pop song- I'm still obsessed with that song. And I think that Tiana could be my favorite princess voice- I think she sings like an angel, and I love her talking voice, too. I love that the "Tiana and Friends" CD has a full-length Tiana "Down in New Orleans." Naveen is another handsome, imperfect prince, and I love him. They truly are opposites, who don't instantly attract! And I love that we go on this journey with them, from not liking each other, to falling in love, and getting married, and working together. I just love it. Tiana is a great character; she's not the feistiest Disney heroine, but she's a dreamer (she just puts hard work into her dream!). I love seeing Tiana as a kid, interacting with her family- that's a favorite of mine out of any Disney film. I love Ray, he is so earnest, and he has the biggest heart. When he (do we need spoilers for a 11 year old film?!)gets killed, that's one of the most heartbreaking moments in Disney for me. Louis is a fun character- he's neurotic but he's a dreamer, too, and he's extremely helpful to Tiana and Naveen. Mama Odie is so great. From her design (I love you, Andreas Deja!!!) to her personality to her voodoo magic- she's a great "fairy godmother"ish character. I feel that I've had mixed feelings on Dr. Facilier. I think initially he wasn't one of my favorite villains because we don't have much backstory on him, and I wanted more of him in the film, but I really have come to love him as far as being a villain goes. He's another magical villain with an extremely cool "lair." I always have, always will think that his Voodoo Dolls living in his lair (do they have an official name?) are the cutest little things, and I wish they had made dolls of them, because I would have purchased them all- I love them. And we have to discuss Charlotte, the best human Disney best friend! She's a really good friend to Tiana- she can be all about herself, and then bam- Tiana needs her and she's there for her. She has great clothes and an even greater personality. She's one of the funniest Disney characters, and I just love her.

(Please don't hate me for having two 4-way ties in a row. Usually my top 5 would've been complete (without ties), but my Top 10 feels like my Top 5, but there are more than 10 movies in my Top 10...). I told you this is hard and I tend to skip ranking threads.

4. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Dumbo, The Fox and the Hound, & Brother Bear:

Snow White: I first saw the movie, like so many of us, in 1993, even though I already had the music from it on a record set since I was small. My love for this film has only grown and grown and grown, and I appreciate it in a different way than I did as a child. It has terrifying moments, especially if you put yourselves in Snow White's shoes (Walt and the Imagineers kind of had the right idea with the original Disneyland ride, but I do like having her in the ride herself). As an adult, Snow White is actually a role model for me. It's easy for me to get anxious and freak out and get frustrated, but I do find myself thinking about how Snow White would act in a situation. She's such a great character, and her movie has suspense, adventure, humor, and romance- it's perfect. I think it's not in my "Top 3" because, as I said, I didn't have as big of an appreciation of the film until I was older, and the other films already had solidified their spots (except for maybe TP&tF, but I just love that movie so much).

Dumbo: This is one of the films I always had growing up, so I've seen it A LOT. I think Dumbo could be the cutest character ever. He goes through so much: being teased, being torn away from his mom, having the feather crisis of 1941! He has lived a life! I love the combination of Timothy & Dumbo: I said earlier that Charlotte is the best Disney human best friend, and I think that Timothy might be the best animal best friend. The look of the film, the circus themes, the diversity of personalities- such a great film.

The Fox and the Hound: I've mentioned my love of this film before. I love its bittersweet ending, I think it's an absolutely beautiful film, I love the very unique and layered friendship of Tod and Copper. Widow Tweed is an amazing mom, and "Goodbye May Seem Forever" is so heartbreaking. Like pretty much everyone, I wish the music were stronger, but the characters and story and look more than make up for that for me.

Brother Bear: This is another film that I closely followed the making-of and I'm so glad that it came out as greatly as it did. I know that most people don't like Koda, but he is so endearing to me. He's absolutely one of my favorite Disney characters. He's got personality. He's an orphan! but he still has so much life to him, he's up for adventure. I love the bond that Kenai and Koda have, I love Kenai's choice at the end. This is another really beautiful film. I think that Rutt and Tuke are hilarious. I really like Tanana, and I wish she could've had even more screentime. "No Way Out" is one of my favorite Disney songs- it moves me deeply, and even just thinking about it, and that scene (I think the scene was done so well!) brings tears to my eyes as I type this. Any movie that makes me feel so deeply deserves a spot in my Top 10. And I didn't even mention the AMAZING Phil Collins soundtrack. While I like the Tarzan soundtrack even more (that's one of my absolute top favorite soundtracks), you don't see Tarzan in my Top 10, so for the meaning behind the songs, Brother Bear is perfect for me. This is another one that (except for TP&tF) isn't higher only because the other movies came out first.

5. For so many years, I always put these next 4 films into an "Other" category, but since I'm allowing ties in my Top 5, they can now be in their rightful place.

Robin Hood, A Goofy Movie, The Emperor's New Groove, & Winnie the Pooh: These 4 are movies that I like to watch when I *don't* feel like crying, but want to watch something that I absolutely love. They are movies that I watch a lot.

Like Dumbo, Robin Hood is a movie that we ALWAYS had since I was little. It brings me so much joy. This is a movie that doesn't make me as emotional as any of the movies I listed above, but watching it, or listening to the amazing soundtrack (the Legacy Collection CD is way better than DVD/YouTube rips!), is like wrapping myself in a favorite blanket- it's just so comfortable for me, it's always been there for me. So I'm not arguing that it's the "best" Disney film, but it just makes me feel good watching it; it's like an old friend for me.

A Goofy Movie, while not a DAC, has to be on my list. It's another comfy-blanket-of-a-movie. I love relationships that progress, and Goofy's & Max's relationship sure does. It's so very '90s, which I love about it, and the music is phenomenal. It's funny but also extremely heartfelt. I love it.

The Emperor's New Groove: Yes, it is hilarious, and I love that about it. (While Kingdom Of/In the Sun would've been epic, that movie was so different from this one, so while I lament the loss of that one, I am forever grateful that we have TENG.) But there is so much heart in the movie, as well. Kuzco, Yzma, and Kronk are some of the most entertaining characters ever, in my opinion. And Pacha is so warm, and patient, and he puts up with so much, but he is SUCH a good guy, has a huge heart. I love him. And Chicha, his wife, is a great partner to him, and their kids are hilarious- I love love love the scene when Yzma is visiting. Comic gold. I haven't even mentioned the quotability of this film- my husband and I quote this film all the time. I have the best time when watching this film.

Winnie the Pooh: I grew up with Welcome to Pooh Corner and The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, and I always loved them very much. Unfortunately, while I would always ask for The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh on VHS, my parents never bought it for me. So the Sing-Along Songs tapes allowed me to watch a little of it. (But of course I bought it when I had money of my own - I think I was 17 or 18!) It wasn't until 2011's Winnie the Pooh that I called a Winnie the Pooh property hilarious. This movie is pretty genius, because it takes classic characters that we have spent so much time with, and lets them have a lot of funny moments. Maybe I'm the only one that thinks this movie is that funny- I don't know! Of course I love their friendship, and the story itself, but I love this movie the most for its humor. And it even helps me appreciate the other Pooh films even more.

Honorable Mentions: Alice in Wonderland (like Snow White, this is another that while I liked as a kid, I have a much bigger appreciation for now), Sleeping Beauty, The Jungle Book (I never thought it was a favorite, but I watch it enough to where it counts!), and Atlantis: The Lost Empire.)(I didn't include live-action, but I love Enchanted, Newsies, and Return to Oz just as much as the movies in my Top 5.)

I don't dislike any of the DACs. I watch them all regularly, and do enjoy them all.

Least Favorites:

1. Fantasia: I LOVE the artistry, and I even recently watched it. But it hard for me to watch it in one go; it's better as shorts for me. I do prefer single-story movies.

2. Fantasia 2000: Same. I think because Fantasia 2000 has more humor than Fantasia, it's one notch up from me.

3. Make Mine Music: Same. Blue Bayou (pretty, but kind of boring) & Two Silhouettes (so boring).

4. Saludos Amigos: Same; all of the shorts are enjoyable, but it is a "short" film (without being a short film!).

5. Melody Time: Same. The only boring short is Trees, for me, so the rest of the shorts puts it as one I like better than the first 4 that I mentioned.

Just above my least favorites: I truly would have to rank all the DACs to find true middle-ground, so this will have to do for now.

1. The Three Caballeros: Again, it's a package film, so it's low on the list for me, but it has some funny moments, and some really good music, so it isn't in my "most bottom" list.

2. Chicken Little: I know that a lot of people hate this movie; I do like it, but it has some cringe-worthy moments. I absolutely adore the design of the backound characters, the dogs, rabbits, etc. And I think that Kirby is too, too cute. And Fish is one of my favorite "lesser" (meaning not a major character) characters- he always makes me laugh.

3. The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad: I do like this movie when I watch it. It doesn't excite me as much as even Fun & Fancy Free, but I do have fun when watching it.

4. Fun & Fancy Free: I really like Mickey and the Beanstalk, and I do have a soft spot for Bongo, but (there's a pattern here) I do prefer longer singular-story movies. But this one is my favorite of the package films. Bongo has super-cute moments (and "Say It With a Slap" is comedy gold in my book), and I grew up with "Mickey and the Beanstalk" since I was teeny tiny.

(Um, I actually typed out this part first, and I'm not sure if I stopped on purpose or didn't get to #5, but I need to go to bed, so 4 it is!)

Oh, Ames! Glad to see you list your favorites! I read your whole, long, post, and it's interesting to see a view of favorites that are not most people's favorites! You're rather unique! I think you love all the big-heartedness in films because you have a big heart!

I agree, The Little Mermaid and Aladdin are "can't take your eyes off the screen" captivating!

blackcauldron85 wrote:I think that Cinderella and her stepmother have some of the best voice acting.

YAY!!!!

blackcauldron85 wrote:I grew up with B&tB and I do love it, even though it's not in my "Top" list, but I do love it. And I'm a girl whose nose has always been stuck in a book (and I remember when the movie came out, I was SO EXCITED that there was finally a brunette, not even just princess, but just any Disney girl (Wendy and Anita had more auburn hair)), and she's beautiful and kind, and I really like Belle, but I'm with you- I don't know why she's not higher up on my list. But she's great.
(I'm typing my thoughts as I read, and JeanGreyForever brought this up, too!)

Hm yeah, that's odd. I wonder if it's because I actually didn't like her yellow dress when I was little lol.

blackcauldron85 wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:I like all the music in Robin Hood, and you know, I actually think Robin is cute. No, I am not a furry lol. I like his character and his outfit, even if he's not like an outstanding character in the Disney pantheon.

Same!

Ok, confession time - I'm not a furry, but he is one cute fox.

blackcauldron85 wrote:

JeanGreyForever wrote:I like Alice as a character too even if some people call her bland

Alice has personality to her, she's a bit feisty, which I love about her. I feel like she's the type of girl that won't take crap, but at the same time, she has her sensitive side. I can relate to "Very Good Advice," and I feel for her.

Alice is a great character! I really like her!

blackcauldron85 wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:And later in my life he and my cousins loved to quote, "Daddy I love him!" "No!" because it was so dramatic!

That's a super cute memory! <3

Thanks!

I love The Black Cauldron a lot myself! I was so excited when I saw commercials for it coming to home video for the first time as a kid in the 90's, and I was like "What's this Disney movie?" and me and my fantasy-lovinng friend were so into it when it was coming out and after we watched it!

Aww, thank you for reading it, DD, and thank you very much for the kind words! <3

Disney Duster wrote:Hm yeah, that's odd. I wonder if it's because I actually didn't like her yellow dress when I was little lol.

Yellow has ALWAYS been my favorite color, so I can't use the same excuse but I can see how a kid could associate not liking the dress much with not taking as much of an interest in the character.

Disney Duster wrote:I'm not a furry, but he is one cute fox.

Same! His attitude, his charm, his cunning, his voice- he's got it all. I mean, there is something about Robin, adult Tod, and Nick Wilde...Is that why hot guys are called "foxes"??! I'm not a furry either, but there's something about them. I think that their voices and just their characterizations really contribute, too.

Disney Duster wrote:Alice is a great character! I really like her!

Have you always felt this way, or have you thought this more as an adult?

Disney Duster wrote:I love The Black Cauldron a lot myself! I wa so excited when I saw commercials for it coming to home video for the first time as a kid in the 90's, and I was like "What's this Disney movie?" and me and my fantasy-lovinng friend were so into it when it was coming out and after we watched it!

I love that!!!!! I knew about it from some books I'd get from the library when I was a kid, and then seeing what info I could find online- I remember seeing a clip of Gurgi online (how long did that take to download with Real Video or Quicktime ) and fell in love, so I was super happy when I found the video at the local mall, and I remember just watching it and watching it, not getting enough of it. So I'm glad you have fond memories of it!

Oh, Disney Duster, I did want to talk about Cinderella!!! I know that you say that both Cinderella and Beauty & the Beast are the best Disney films. I do love them both (I talked about Belle as a character above but not about both movies). So, like Dumbo and Robin Hood (amongst others), Cinderella is a movie that I ALWAYS had on video growing up, and I would watch it a lot. I still watch it quite regularly, and I just watched it recently. I always love watching it, I love how kind Cinderella is, I love her friendship with the animals. Lady Tremaine is so chilling in her evilness. Fairy Godmother is a joy. I really love the mice. It's a beautiful film (in a different way that I find The Fox and the Hound or The Black Cauldron or Brother Bear beautiful). I love the music in it, too. Likewise with Beauty and the Beast, I was 6 when it came out, so for most of my life it's been in my life! And like Cinderella, it's one that I've always watched a lot, I love the music, the characters, it's beautiful. So I don't know if because I watched them so much, and I like The Little Mermaid and Aladdin and Pocahontas more, that they're not in my Top list...? That there was never space for them? That very well may be it. They're not my "I don't want to cry" movies, because I do get emotional at parts in them, so maybe that's it. I love them but maybe because there are fairy tale films I enjoy more that I don't list them. I need to not be lazy and just rank all 58 movies, and I know that they'd be up there!

Yeah, I don't always read long stuff, even my friend's, and you are friend, but I decided to read yours because it was your top 5 favorites and, well I read all the others, too!

Wow, another person who's favorite color is yellow! Mine is bluish purple, but I mean yellow is a rare favorite! I was just thinking since I like Cinderella's and Aurora's princess dresses so much, maybe me not liking Belle's as a kid was why I never gravitated toward her. But as an adult, I think Belle has the best dress after Cinderella's.

Haha, yes, maybe that's why hot guys are called foxes, but I thought hot girls were called foxes, too? lol But I was trying to say that somehow Robin Hood's fox design, not just his voice and charm, but his anthropomorphic fox body is cute to me. But I am not a furry lol. I agree though, the characterizations must help. Oh, and while we are at it, the tiger backup dancers for that Shakira gazelle in Zootopia made me think I was a furry for a moment because I have never been more attracted to tigers in my life! lol

I actually only realized how great Alice is an adult! I love her because she spoke her mind to the queen, she got mad, she was curious, and actually she spoke her mind all the time now that I think of it! And there's just something about her animated acting and voice that actually makes her a really great character!

Oh, yes, didn't you say you took out The Disney Villain or some Disney animation books? That must be how you found out about The Black Cauldron. That's a cool way to discover it. I love the way I discovered it, personally, seeing all those moments of swords and scorcery on the TV, it was like a happy surprise! Like it was a new Disney movie! Haha, yes I must imagine finally getting to see that video of Gurgi took forever, lol! I must say, The Black Cauldron is one of my favorite Disney flicks!

Thank you so much for talking about Cinderella because it's my favorite! And I loved what you said! Actually, I think Snow White, Beauty and the Beast, and Pinocchio are the best Disney films. To me they are the cream of the crop and I think a lot of the world agrees. I think Cinderella is one of the best, top tier, but there are still a lot of films above Cinderella, in my opinion. It's just the very best film of all time to my heart. Hm, yes, maybe because you have so many other favorites, that Cindy and Beauty and Beasty just didn't make the cut when discussing your top 5, or top 10 lol. But hey, that's fine, because you have a unique love of unique Disney films, and that is awesome!

I don't know if I could ever rank all 58 movies, lol

While I don't blame anyone for not reading my long post, I appreciate that you did; it's fun having our discussion!

My first doll when I was born (I still have her) has a yellow outfit on, so I guess yellow was the first color I knew

I just watched Zootopia, and while Nick is a hot fox, while I'm not attracted to Gazelle's dancers, they are in great shape and amazing dancers, so I can see where you are coming from!

Yes, I love those things about Alice, too! I LOVE her animated acting and voice, too.

I hadn't taken out "The Disney Villain," but I'd take out "Mouse Under Glass" by David Koenig and "The Art of Walt Disney" by Christopher Finch, and "The Art of Disney Animation" by Bob Thomas...I'm very grateful my local library had those, and now I own them. I probably took out others, but these are the ones I remember taking out the most.

Yeah, I think for most people, that video release made "The Black Cauldron" like a new Disney movie, since we hadn't been able to see it before, we hadn't seen it advertised before. I love that you love TBC!! <3 How do you like Eilonwy compared to the other princesses?

I can understand what you mean about Cinderella being your favorite, but only one of the best. In what ways do you rank Snow White, B&tB, and Pinocchio as better than Cinderella? Obviously Pinocchio is an amazing-looking film, so I'd guess that the look of Cinderella maybe wasn't as innovative, and maybe that's why? But I'm curious to hear your opinion! I think you've mentioned it before, but my memory is bad- out of the Disney soundtracks, is Cinderella your favorite, or B&tB, or something else?

Yeah, I've *wanted* to rank the 58 movies, but that's a daunting task. It's funny because like I wrote in my long post, I had this thread up for the longest time, and even one day I did my ranking on a scrap of paper(which I'm fairly certain turned out the same as when I made it again, even though I didn't fully remember what I wrote for all my ties [because when I re-did it, it wasn't hard saying what was a favorite over not a favorite...ranking them was harder, so I tied everything ], but I'm not sure where I put the paper), and that was a process of elimination even just between some of my favorites. But I'd like to take that challenge, but knowing me, I'd have a Top 20 and squeeze all the films in.

blackcauldron85 wrote:While I don't blame anyone for not reading my long post, I appreciate that you did; it's fun having our discussion!

Agreed!!!!

blackcauldron85 wrote:My first doll when I was born (I still have her) has a yellow outfit on, so I guess yellow was the first color I knew

Aw, that's so sweet! I feel like our favorite colors come from our genes/souls, but they could also come from things we love!

blackcauldron85 wrote:I just watched Zootopia, and while Nick is a hot fox, while I'm not attracted to Gazelle's dancers, they are in great shape and amazing dancers, so I can see where you are coming from!

Nick is a hot fox. He's a great character, just like Judy!

blackcauldron85 wrote:Yes, I love those things about Alice, too! I LOVE her animated acting and voice, too.

Yay!

blackcauldron85 wrote:I hadn't taken out "The Disney Villain," but I'd take out "Mouse Under Glass" by David Koenig and "The Art of Walt Disney" by Christopher Finch, and "The Art of Disney Animation" by Bob Thomas...I'm very grateful my local library had those, and now I own them. I probably took out others, but these are the ones I remember taking out the most

Oh, ok I see. I owned The Art of Walt Disney as a kid! I love that book!

blackcauldron85 wrote:Yeah, I think for most people, that video release made "The Black Cauldron" like a new Disney movie, since we hadn't been able to see it before, we hadn't seen it advertised before. I love that you love TBC!! <3 How do you like Eilonwy compared to the other princesses?

Yes, The Black Cauldron is awesome! And Eilonwy is awesome! Compared to the other princesses, I like her. I like prim and proper and kind of graceful princesses and blonde hair, so I'd probably rank her after Snow White or Belle, but higher than Jasmine. I feel bad because JeanGreyForever loves Jasmine. However, Jasmine is still above Tiana for me. I found Tiana boring. So, first to last, Cinderella, Aurora, Ariel, Belle, Snow White, Rapunzel, Jasmine, Tiana, Elsa, Anna, Pocahontas. But do I hate a single Disney Princess? Nah. I do not count Mulan, so, yeah. She can go be a soldier, not a princess!

blackcauldron85 wrote:I can understand what you mean about Cinderella being your favorite, but only one of the best. In what ways do you rank Snow White, B&tB, and Pinocchio as better than Cinderella? Obviously Pinocchio is an amazing-looking film, so I'd guess that the look of Cinderella maybe wasn't as innovative, and maybe that's why? But I'm curious to hear your opinion! I think you've mentioned it before, but my memory is bad- out of the Disney soundtracks, is Cinderella your favorite, or B&tB, or something else?

Snow White has an amazing sense of how they tried to make a very beautiful, innovative, and dramatic film. I think with how you feel bad for the poor, sweet Snow White dying and then coming back to life, it just trumps all the others. But Beauty and the Beast has a similar scene with the sweet and gentle Beast coming back to life, and I think many would say BatB is more advanced and has more to it than Snow White and should be ranked higher, but there's something about that heavenly ending of Snow White that is so all-encompassing. Pinocchio is an amazing film visually as well, but it tells the journey of a boy who, like the Beast, goes on a journey to become worthy of being human, and his sacrifice that makes him get his wish is just the perfect end to the journey that hits you in the feels. Wait a minute, in all three of these films a main character comes back to life at the end! Well, hey, that's probably part of why they are so good! With Cinderella, I consider Cinderella a film about a lot of sweet and warm feelings, as well as magical feelings, but it just doesn't hit the heart as much as the top three Disney films in my opinion. As for the soundtracks, I think Beauty and the Beast has the objectively best one. Can't beat a classic musical score! But my favorite soundtrack is Bambi! I love every song in that! Bambi is so...it feels so melancholic, which is a word Sotiris uses and I think it fits in Bambi's case, and I like that about it.

blackcauldron85 wrote:Yeah, I've *wanted* to rank the 58 movies, but that's a daunting task. It's funny because like I wrote in my long post, I had this thread up for the longest time, and even one day I did my ranking on a scrap of paper(which I'm fairly certain turned out the same as when I made it again, even though I didn't fully remember what I wrote for all my ties [because when I re-did it, it wasn't hard saying what was a favorite over not a favorite...ranking them was harder, so I tied everything ], but I'm not sure where I put the paper), and that was a process of elimination even just between some of my favorites. But I'd like to take that challenge, but knowing me, I'd have a Top 20 and squeeze all the films in.

I don't know how you managed to remember enough from that scrap of paper! And when I read your last sentence I literally laughed out loud!

^ That's a really good observation a) about how Beast and Pinocchio

Disney Duster wrote:goes on a journey to become worthy of being human

. That's very true, and I don't know that I've thought of them that way before.

Disney Duster wrote:in all three of these films a main character comes back to life at the end!

That's another really good observation. Ya know, Gurgi does the same thing!
And Meg does (due to Hercules' bravery). And Eugene does (due to Rapunzel). And Anna does (due to Elsa). And Elsa pretty much does (due to Anna)...

I've been meaning to do this for a while, so I'll try.

Five Favorites:

Fantasia- I've mentioned this before, but I love the combination of art and music. My favorite segments are the one-two closing of "Night on Bald Mountain" and "Ava Marie". Gorgeous.

Dumbo- I think Disney's first five features are a thing of beauty, and show levels of variety and creativity that any studio, let alone Disney themselves, have seldom matched since. If any of these features show similarity towards each other, Dumbo and Bambi do, focusing on the birth and early days of animals. They're day and night in terms of execution, though, and while I do really like Bambi, I connect with Dumbo a lot more. Granted, the crows do taint the film a bit, but I think it has a perfect range of emotion throughout, and I love the animation, which feels like a final return to the studio's Silly Symphony days, with the masterful perfection of their features.

Aladdin- I can't tell you how many times I've seen this movie. It might have been the first movie I've seen, period. I love just about everything about it, especially Aladdin and Jasmine, who may be my favorite pair in all of Disney. It also has one of the best soundtracks of all their features, with "A Whole New World" easily cracking my top 5.

The Lion King- It's funny, as beloved as this one is all around the world, it's not quite as popular on here. Or at least wasn't, as I think most of the posters who actively disliked it have gone. But what can I say, I'm a sucker for this film, and have always been. I think its sense of iconography is a big factor to me, It feels larger than life, and sucks me into the world every time. And as much as I love Alan Menken, I think the change of crew was a fine fit here. Hans Zimmer has still never made a better score imo, and I think that Elton John and Tim Rice knocked some great songs out.

The Emperor's New Groove- Boom, baby! I know it's more Warner-esq than Disney, but that's not a negative to me at all. I think the cast is top-to-bottom excellent, with even smaller characters like Pacha's family and the waitress from the diner being exceptional. It's the perfect change of pace for the studio.

And I'll do something a little different:

Five I Find Flawed, But Lovable

The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad- I love both segments almost equally. When I look back at the film, I always go back to Legend of Sleepy Hollow and its gorgeous, creepy aesthetic, but whenever it goes on, I'm almost surprised by how entertaining The Wind in the Willows is. Ichabod and Mr. Toad really are two fantastic characters- I love how admirably sheepish the former is, while Mr. Toad's a fireball of personality and spunk. I think that the reason that it doesn't go the distance for me at the end of the day, though, is that it's hard for me to rank package films in the same way as fuller narratives, even if this is more of a double feature. Part of me wishes these could have been longer, but I also recognize that Disney probably got the most they could out of them.

Lady and the Tramp- And I thought the crows from Dumbo were bad! Well, they still are, but this movie has a lot of problematic elements, from Si and Am to the Irish cop scene to Boris and the chihuahua. But this is probably my favorite of the 50's features (give or take Sleeping Beauty, which I flipped a coin on to be featured here), and a big part of that comes from my love of dogs. I'd like to think that this is one of the most accurate portrayals of how pups function and interact. Even if it's not, I think there's a lot of warmth and heart to this film, primarily with its cast. I've never had a cocker spaniel, but part of me never wants to because I know that I'll never find one as loving and wonderful as Lady. Same as a Scottish terrier or bloodhound. It's also a nice love story on top of that.

The other thing about the film that is both a plus and minus to me is how lowkey it is. I like that it's a film with relatively lower stakes than your average DAC, but that does make it feel slightly less essential at the end of the day, hence why it's here.

The Great Mouse Detective- One of my favorite protagonists and antagonists in all of Disney's features, separately or together! I've always liked Sherlock Holmes more in theory than execution, so it's probably so surprising that I like Basil so much, but I think his cocky nature works well for the narrative here, and I like his banter with Dawson and Olivia better than I've ever liked Sherlock's with Watson and whoever they're paired with. And then you have Vincent Price as Ratigan, an all-time great performance! What keeps this a step or two down for me is that the pacing and animation aren't up to snuff, with the bar scene in particular taking a good chunk of time away from the best material here. Compared to much of the studio's work from the past decade or so though, it's almost a godsend.

Atlantis: The Lost Empire- I really love the cast here, and I think that the art design and use of CG actually worked pretty well. I always lose interest at certain points of the film, though, and I kind of wish that this could be a series instead, to give more time to flesh out everyone and build the world up. Even then, I wish that Disney would take a risk on this kind of movie again.

The Princess and the Frog- I think that even a good decade after the hype for the return of hand-drawn animation, there's still a lot to like in this movie. Especially with its core cast, as I'll come out and say it- Tiana is my favorite princess, and she was the moment I saw this. She's smart, honest, dedicated, and assured, not to mention drop-dead gorgeous. She learns a good lesson, and her romance with Naveen is well-built and genuine. He's also a great co-lead, who learns another strong lesson as well. And while I agree that the movie would have worked better if Tiana had more of a connection with him, I love Dr. Facilier. He has a very commanding personality, and a terrific performance in both animation and voice work. Then you have Lottie, who deserves all the love in the world.

The problem is that it's just not 100% there storywise. While I don't want to give Doug Walker too much credit for, well, anything, he's right about the film having a lot of story conveniences, but that's hardly the worst part. The swamp material is the least engaging part by far, which is also the bulk of the film. And while I don't mind Louis and Ray as much as other people on this site, they're not exactly among the all-time great sidekicks, and often take away from better material with the leads. And of course, the music isn't up to snuff. I do love "Friends on the Other Side" (it's a karaoke stable of mine, in fact), but most of it is forgettable Randy Newman fluff, and sadly for Disney fairy tales, music is a big part of the package. If you factor in the good with the notsogood though, I'm still a fan.

I wanted to find room for Hunchback and Zootopia in either of these, among others, but it was tough!

blackcauldron85 wrote:I love, love, love that song; I sing it all the time.

Yes, it has such a hummable melody, just like "Bibbidi Bobbidi Boo" or "A Spoonful of Sugar."

blackcauldron85 wrote: A lot of people aren't big fans of him, so it's refreshing that you are. I know growing up my mom wasn't a fan of "Les Poissons," but I've always thought it was pretty funny, and also just imagine being Sebastian; we thought his anxiety was bad before!!

I agree, there are a lot of people who overlook that scene / song. I don’t mind so much if it’s not in the re-make (although it'll probably be replaced by a lesser song that's also nothing but comic relief is the problem...), because the reason it works depends so much on Louie’s voice acting and the exaggeration of the animation to make it funny. I believe the only part of TLM I’m sort of meh on is Scuttle; it was worth having the character just to give Ariel a reason to call human things weird names, but he isn’t really a funny character on his own. I think the only laugh I have that involves Scuttle is when he smashes Sebastian around when trying to tell him about Vanessa being Ursula. It’s really only funny because Sebastian was kind of mean to him throughout the film. It’s like when Rose throws in subtle digs at Blanche and Dorothy out of nowhere on TGG.

I agree on Meet the Robinsons, too. Meeting the Robinsons themselves is probably my least favorite part of the film. I love the BHG and Doris’s shenanigans (their dynamic reminds me of Kronk and Yzma), Mildred (who runs the orphanage), and Lewis' adoptive mother Lucille. And the final scene when Lewis decides not to approach his mother is full of heart. In fact, the whole ending is perfect, imo. I love when "Little Wonders" starts to play; Mildred is waving to Lewis as he drives away with his new family makes me tear up a little.

blackcauldron85 wrote: YES!!! I remember the first time I saw Home on the Range (I may have even had the soundtrack first...it's been half a lifetime ago!, so maybe the first time I heard the song), I thought it was the funniest thing I had ever seen. Alameda Slim is one of my favorite villains...I mean, he's a land-grabbing, yodeling cowboy! And the Willies playing off of him- it's just really funny.

The first time I saw the yodeling song’s scene, I was so shocked that I started laughing. The tone of the character up ‘til then is so serious, that it gives you even more whiplash. The triplet nephews are so funny, especially their designs.

As far as your question about the idea of Cruella being the villain of The Rescuers as the creators toyed with, it’s hard to say. I’m sure I would’ve liked her appearance in the film more than Medusa simply because Cruella is an awesome character regardless of the material, but another part of me is glad they didn’t go through with that idea. Even though she doubtless would’ve been more fun, I have a feeling being in The Rescuers would’ve degraded the character somewhat because the film just isn’t on the same level as Dalmatians to me.

Random thoughts in response to the rest of your post: I love Alice! My favorite parts of AiW (aside from the Cheshire Cat) are when Alice finally has it up to here with the other characters’ being stupid and tells them what for. Meeko and Percy having a parallel story to the tension / violence between the white men and Native Americans actually reminds me of how the mice and cat sort of parallel Cinderella’s situation with her stepfamily. I wonder how many other films' sidekicks parallel the main story in vague ways?

I love the scene between Ariel and Triton, too, naturally. The scene feels very real… There’s something very wrong when a parent is angry and horrified over a child being in love with someone. Some of the best parts pass by so fast… Like how Triton couldn’t care less if a human had lived or died as if humans are lesser beings, Ariel’s expression when she says she loves Eric as if she just couldn't stand to listen to Triton's vitriol and hatred anymore, Sebastian's reaction knowing the sh*t has officially hit the fan, the determined and bitter look on Ariel's face as Triton reacts, then the look of fear when Triton says the last line before destroying her grotto—so perfect all-around. And it’s all done without a second ever feeling overdramatic, forced, or cheesy. That’s why some of Ariel's dumb actions that immediately follow to me can easily be explained as anger at Triton and desperation to escape at any cost as well as love for Eric and the human world. The thing is Triton so obviously loves Ariel very much despite his flaws as a person. It’s not just the sacrifice he makes taking her place or his panic when she’s missing either. I love how he blasts Ursula against the wall almost immediately when F&J take hold of Ariel’s arms and Ariel is freaking out. He always reminded me so much of my own father. Not just that the design of the face itself is very similar to my father's face, but also the temper, the inability to talk without shouting, the dependability in a crisis, the I-will-f-you-up-if-you-mess-with-me-or-mine nature, etc. The horrible DTV sequel is something I really only ever watch to hear more of Pat Carroll--she definitely elevates the material much more than it deserves--but I also love Triton's moment at the end when he gets his trident back. "There will be no escape for you. EVEEEERRRRR!" The character is so bada**. I just happened across my SEGA game for The Little Mermaid when moving things around last week, and it made me wish I could still play it for nostalgic purposes. I loved the fact that the game actually let you play as Triton for half the story.

I actually love Taran and Eilonwy together even more in the books. That’s true about the Sultan being overbearing just like Triton. I guess Triton might be remembered as worse because he shouts, has all the muscles, and carries a weapon; he even sort of comes across violent at times. Whereas the Sultan never really shouts at Jasmine, that might be part of it. A lot of his power feels dependent on guards and so on to enforce what he says because he himself is kind of a joke. That's probably why he immediately folds when Jafar asks him and Jasmine to kneel while she refuses. TP&TF is one of the first films I followed online all the way from the early announcement to the release like you described. I know there are some who think following a film in that way can hurt your enjoyment of the finished product when you finally see it, but I’ve seemed to like and dislike films pretty evenly while following them in this way? I don't think it makes much difference. I loved TP&TF while having looked forward to it for years and obsessing over every little piece of information that came out beforehand. I still remember when the film was about Maddie and her mother who were chambermaids for Charlotte and her rich family. Charlotte’s transformation was the biggest surprise, because she was originally supposed to be a mean Nellie Olsen type and what we got instead was so refreshing. Her and Tiana’s relationship definitely paved the way for Anna and Elsa, imo. Losing Alan Menken on that film still cuts me so deep… I wish Tiana could've had a Menken theme so bad. I love "Never Knew I Needed," too. I wish there had been a duet in the film with similar lyrics because it encapsulates the message of the whole film. I think Tiana is feisty myself, like her reaction when she first meets Naveen while she’s working at the restaurant, how she nearly gets into a fight with the two racists at the party who won't let her buy the building for her restaurant, then a lot of her early stuff with Naveen while they're frogs. I like the scene of her as a child, too. I usually don't care for these try-hard-to-be-cutesy early scenes with the kid versions of the protagonists that all the Revival films seem to feature, but Tiana's father really adds a lot to that scene. Such a warm character with such a small onscreen role (although he ends up having a huge presence in the film anyway)! I think it's a shame that when Facilier uses magic to tempt Tiana at the end, he didn't bring up a false version of her father. That would've been really cool, especially if Tiana's father's voice was the one who spoke Facilier's words, "Come on, Tiana... You’re al…most…there…!"

Sorry I didn’t reply sooner, I knew it would take me a while to read and respond properly the way your post deserved.

@Avaitor: That's true about TLK not being popular here; I blame it on the film being so enormously beloved off-line. Films like that draw this strange aura from some people, the need to deride the film and point out all the ways it's really awful if you overthink it and the public just don't understand. L&tT was always my favorite of the 1950's after Cinderella, although I probably would've ranked it higher on my list of the 50+ classics years back. I'm not sure it's that I like L&tT any less than I ever did so much as I've come to like some other films more than I once did, which ended up causing my rank of L&tT to fall down some spots. It feels very domestic compared to most other Disney films.

Avaitor wrote: I love the animation, which feels like a final return to the studio's Silly Symphony days, with the masterful perfection of their features.

Yes-- that is the perfect way of describing the look of Dumbo!!!

Disney's Divinity wrote:Meeko and Percy having a parallel story to the tension / violence between the white men and Native Americans actually reminds me of how the mice and cat sort of parallel Cinderella’s situation with her stepfamily.

See, and a lot of people don't like any of these animals much, but I really enjoy the animals, and I feel for them, and I laugh with/at them. I think they add some more flavor to their movies.

Disney's Divinity wrote:I love the scene between Ariel and Triton, too, naturally. The scene feels very real…

I watched Brave yesterday, and Elinor and Merida have their "Mum, you don't understand!" and I thought back to this thread, talking about Ariel/Triton. Poor Disney redheads whose parents don't understand them. #relateable

I think that one of my favorite things about TLM is the facial animation, the different emotions the characters feel, you see it on their faces...great animation there.

Disney's Divinity wrote:I think Tiana is feisty myself, like her reaction when she first meets Naveen while she’s working at the restaurant, how she nearly gets into a fight with the two racists at the party who won't let her buy the building for her restaurant, then a lot of her early stuff with Naveen while they're frogs.

Good point! I think her feistiness is a different type than Ariel, Jasmine, Eilonwy. I think Tiana is more poised, but absolutely, she doesn't take crap from anyone, and that's something to love about her (amongst other things).

Disney's Divinity wrote: I think it's a shame that when Facilier uses magic to tempt Tiana at the end, he didn't bring up a false version of her father. That would've been really cool, especially if Tiana's father's voice was the one who spoke Facilier's words, "Come on, Tiana... You’re al…most…there…!"

Whoa, that's a cool idea. You should work for Disney!!!

Disney's Divinity wrote:Sorry I didn’t reply sooner, I knew it would take me a while to read and respond properly the way your post deserved.

No worries at all. I really appreciate you reading it <3, but like I said earlier, I don't blame anyone for not, because it's a book.

Disney's Divinity wrote: I'm not sure it's that I like L&tT any less than I ever did so much as I've come to like some other films more than I once did, which ended up causing my rank of L&tT to fall down some spots.

I feel similarly.

Poised is a good word! I definitely find Tiana to have an elegance about her.