DVDizzy Forum

I am very excited about this DVD set. I'm not sure which Treasure I'm looking forward to more this one or Donald Duck. I purchased a pre-order through Amazon. Where did everyone else pre-order their set?

Wow awesome I cannot wait to get this.

Invader ZIM wrote:I am very excited about this DVD set. I'm not sure which Treasure I'm looking forward to more this one or Donald Duck. I purchased a pre-order through Amazon. Where did everyone else pre-order their set?

Pre-ordered through the affiliate link to Amazon last summer/fall.

They may have been propoganda on the part of the US, but I think they were reflections of personal sentiment on Walt's part (more patriotic than propogandizing for Walt). Of course, that was only half of it, the other was profit motive. Disney completists have no reason not to desire this as part of their collection. It's possible they wouldn't have a very large collection to complete had these films not been made, and they represent a significant part of the company's history. I for one find it very cool that Disney was so vital to the war effort here at home.

That being said, I am a little surprised DisneyCo/Eisner didn't get too scared about releasing this during another war over fears of looking non-PC. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, I'm just surprised they don't.

-Aaron

JimmyJackJunior wrote:Let me clarify - I wholeheartedly agree America's entry into the second world war was necessary. Hitler had to be stopped, he would not have stopped before he had conquered the world and stopping him before he held all of Europe and most of Africa was necessary. In fact, America should have entered the war before it was attacked.



I just do not agree with the use of cartoons to justify war to children and for that matter adults. War is serious. The Cartoons do not tend to be a real representation of war(with perhaps the exception of Victory through Air Power) which is the one part of the set I would like to see. I despise Hogan's Heroes for the same reason. What an utter total misrepresentation of war. But everything it did wrong, MASH did right.

Secondly, I am not ignorant. I am not an American but my college electives were all history with three American history and political science courses. I am not anti-American but I do not support the war in Iraq. Right war, wrong reasons. There are twenty other tinpot dictators out there that need to be taken out just as bad as Saddam did.

May we all learn from our history and our mistakes to build a better future for all.

Peace to all God's children.

I can respectfully disagree with someone like you.

As for using cartoons for war supporting roles, I see them as justified especially back then when so many children were losing relatives in the war. It probably put them at a little more ease than being bombarded with the reality of the situation. Wasn't it something like 500,000 americans killed in WWII? Thats opposed to a relatively low ~600 in the Iraq war. And in general, whatever it takes to get people to rally around the troops should be used, and if it were cartoons back then, then so be it.

JimmyJackJunior wrote: Secondly, I am not ignorant. I am not an American but my college electives were all history with three American history and political science courses.

Please don't feel that any of us are suggesting that JJJ. Just a friendly disagreement, nothing personal. Discussion and disagreement are a part of freedom! I certainly respect your opinion -- my own opinion simply differs from yours.

wwwjim - I have taken nothing you have said in offence. Aside from the ignorant comment, the whole discussion has been on the facts and peoples interpretations of them. Very little in the way of personal insult.

I too recognize your right to your opinions and respect them.

Peace,

Sean

Found an image that appears in the Poster Gallery section:



From http://disney.go.com/inside/issues/stories/v040119.html

For those debating whether the propaganda was a product of Walt’s own free will or government enforced, I think I can put the debate to rest right now:

When Pearl Harbor was bombed and the United States was drawn into the Second World War, the nation was in a state of near panic. Americans sat glued to their radio sets to hear the news. Would there be more bombings? Was California safe? That night, Walt's phone rang. It was his studio manager. "Walt," he said, "The army is moving in on us. I said I'd have to call you. And they said 'Call him. But we're moving in anyway.'" Hours later, some 700 soldiers had, in fact, seized the Disney Studio.

http://disney.go.com/disneyatoz/waltdis ... ode10.html

Thank you Class, I knew that was the case but was too lazy to go look it up.

Leonard Maltin had said it in the intro to one of the Treasures.

I also read it in a book that Walt and Roy Disney were opposed but did not think they could fight it. Possibly David Koenig's Mousetales?

Disney felt the Disney company should have the image of innoncence and childhood not war.

Class316 wrote:When Pearl Harbor was bombed and the United States was drawn into the Second World War, the nation was in a state of near panic. Americans sat glued to their radio sets to hear the news. Would there be more bombings? Was California safe? That night, Walt's phone rang. It was his studio manager. "Walt," he said, "The army is moving in on us. I said I'd have to call you. And they said 'Call him. But we're moving in anyway.'" Hours later, some 700 soldiers had, in fact, seized the Disney Studio.

http://disney.go.com/disneyatoz/waltdis ... ode10.html

You left out the rest of that quote

Their purpose was to help protect the nearby Lockheed aircraft plant -- an installation that was vital to the nation's security.

They were not there to force Disney to make war pictures. Your source goes on to say:

Though government contracts certainly brought money into the studio, Walt was hardly getting rich from this work. Some of it was done at cost. All of it was pretty expensive. "Victory Through Air Power" lost almost $500,000 at the box office.

"Victory Through Air Power" was made at Walt's decision -- it was a controversial topic among US strategic planners at the time. Walt retained control of the studio throughout the war.

They "seized the Disney Studio" (regardless of the excuse). And he had "government contracts".

JimmyJackJunior wrote:Let me clarify - I wholeheartedly agree America's entry into the second world war was necessary. Hitler had to be stopped, he would not have stopped before he had conquered the world and stopping him before he held all of Europe and most of Africa was necessary. In fact, America should have entered the war before it was attacked.

So in other words, propaganda that supports a war that defends YOUR turf is OK? Is that it? Or are you saying that, yes, World War II was necessary, but support for it should never have been encouraged on the homefront? Or do you believe that children should be shielded and sheltered and treated like crystal glass and only whispered to kindly and politely at all times? Hey buddy, when my kid beats up your kid, what are you going to tell your kid to do, run? What if my kid runs after him and keeps beating him, are you going to sing lullabies to your kid and tell him it's only make-believe? No, you're going to encourage him to engage in violence in order to stop the problem, that's what you're gonna do - and that's what these propaganda films are essentially doing, encouraging support for a series of battles that was not pleasant but was NECESSARY.

JimmyJackJunior wrote:I just do not agree with the use of cartoons to justify war to children and for that matter adults.

So what would you suggest to people living 60 years ago? Use stick figures? Use clay? Make pantomimes? Show the whole bloody truth of it all in fabulous live-action Technicolor? Oh sure, THAT'D be popular. Frank Capra's "Why We Fight" series had already been made, but not everyone was up for black & white documentary footage, and not everyone responds to it well. Besides, what was Disney gonna do, make live action movies? They didn't have computers to create realistic special effects back then (or hadn't you noticed?). Or are you saying that maybe Disney should have buried its head in the sand and pretended that there wasn't a war going on?

Save your sanctimonious preaching for another board, bub. You don't have to like the historical document, but don't pretend you're any better than anyone else. If pushed hard enough, you'll strike back. And telling others WHY you struck back and continue to fight off your attacker is essentially the same thing as this "pro-war propaganda" you excoriate. (Then again, maybe you'll just surrender and "cope".)

JimmyJackJunior wrote:I despise Hogan's Heroes for the same reason. What an utter total misrepresentation of war.

OK, look, anyone who honestly believes "Hogan's Heroes" to be a "representation of war" has got his head shoved deeply up his posterior. Mocking Nazis and finding the funny side to a tragic situation is something that was done before, and not just by Americans (ever see Ernst Lubitsch's classic 1942 comedy To Be Or Not To Be?), but nobody with a brain ever considered comedies that find the funny side of war (and wars do have their funny sides) to be "representative of war". I don't base my entire opinion of the Korean War on "M.A.S.H.", any more than I base my opinion of US western frontier life on "F Troop".

JimmyJackJunior wrote:But everything it did wrong, MASH did right.

Oh, sure, if it makes fun of the US military, it's hilarious and everyone should see it. God forbid anyone should make fun of Hitler's military, though. I see, I see. So mocking Nazis is wrong but mocking US generals is right. Yeah, I see where you get your water from, pal.

JimmyJackJunior wrote:Secondly, I am not ignorant. I am not an American but my college electives were all history with three American history and political science courses.

Wow, you actually attended a few classes held in a room and read more than one book? Isn't that just simply AMAZING? That must make you a certified EXPERT on what being an American is all about! I'm still struggling with "Pat the Bunny" and my coloring books, but you done did a good job in that thar skewl or whatever it's called. (Not an insult; a compliment!)

JimmyJackJunior wrote: I am not anti-American but I do not support the war in Iraq. Right war, wrong reasons. There are twenty other tinpot dictators out there that need to be taken out just as bad as Saddam did.

Oh really? Well, how about you tell us idiot Americans where to go send our troops instead, since you seem to be so much more vastly educated on the topic of tinpot dictators that need to be taken out by the US military, Mr. Preach-To-The-Dumb-Yanks-from-your-Ivory-Tower, and then, like good little world citizens, we can dutifully send our troops to go fight and die because yet another ungrateful foreign nation thought it'd be a good idea for us to do so while they had a few ales down at the local pub and they wouldn't have to think about those pesky tinpot dictators anymore?!? Would that make you happy? (No, of course it wouldn't, war's wrong unless you say it's okay; but it's always all right if AMERICANS are dying, just as long as those pesky international wars don't threaten your shores, right?)

JimmyJackJunior wrote:May we all learn from our history and our mistakes to build a better future for all.

On this I can agree. May Americans learn from the losing proposition of fighting for OTHER PEOPLE'S COUNTRIES and let them fight their own damn battles, and if they have a problem with the wars we fight on our own, remember that the next time a dictator knocks on THEIR front door. After all, if they're too lazy to go look up a quote from Leonard Maltin, they're probably too lazy to pick up a rifle in their own self defense, so why should we send our boys to fight and die for such people?

JJJ forget the wackos that are bashing you, don't waist your breath on them, it's because of idiots like them that I decided to leave the US. I beleive it is 10 % of americans that have passports and of those 7% ever use them. For a people that doesn't ever see other cultures first hand it is nearly impossible for them to comprehend what the REAL world is like.

I should know I used to think the same way before i sent many years abroad, it took a lot of analysing to overcome the BS I was breast fed. Now don't get me wrong, not all americans are bad, actually I think the majority of us actually have our heads on straight, but of course the squeekiest wheels get the attention. And the rational thinkers don't get involved in the "Drama".

Now they are going to bash me for being "Anti-American" and "Unpatriotic", so be it, they obviously don't know the meaning of the words.

On the DVD set, I am really looking forward to it, for the historical value. I've really awoken to the power of propoganda over the past few years, especially since the rise of Fox news. That said, i won't let my children watch them.

Papibear wrote:On this I can agree. May Americans learn from the losing proposition of fighting for OTHER PEOPLE'S COUNTRIES and let them fight their own damn battles, and if they have a problem with the wars we fight on our own, remember that the next time a dictator knocks on THEIR front door. After all, if they're too lazy to go look up a quote from Leonard Maltin, they're probably too lazy to pick up a rifle in their own self defense, so why should we send our boys to fight and die for such people?

Perhaps I should keep out of this, but while it may help your logical reasoning Papibear to class the Iraq conflict as "other people's battles" don't forget that the West (including the UK, and even France and Germany), the West not just America actually supported and funded Saddam. The West armed Saddam. The West are responsible for Saddam.

Its only right that the West corrects their mistake. But I despise the way America and the UK have presented their case for the War. If they actually stood up, and admitted past mistakes and told everyone that now they were going to do something about it, I would have respect for them. I have very little respect at the moment after their lies and spin-doctoring.

Oh, and America supported and funded Bin Laden too. Now call me "anti-American" if you like (as if there's even such a concept. As if anyone could unconditionally hate a whole country), but there must be something wrong with America's foreign policy over the past few decades when it continuously funds and actively creates it's biggest enemies!

PapiBear wrote:
Oh really? Well, how about you tell us idiot Americans where to go send our troops instead, since you seem to be so much more vastly educated on the topic of tinpot dictators that need to be taken out by the US military, Mr. Preach-To-The-Dumb-Yanks-from-your-Ivory-Tower, and then, like good little world citizens, we can dutifully send our troops to go fight and die because yet another ungrateful foreign nation thought it'd be a good idea for us to do so while they had a few ales down at the local pub and they wouldn't have to think about those pesky tinpot dictators anymore?!? Would that make you happy? (No, of course it wouldn't, war's wrong unless you say it's okay; but it's always all right if AMERICANS are dying, just as long as those pesky international wars don't threaten your shores, right?)

Again, I am not one to step in these political fights (I am just looking forward to the historical curiosities on what is shaping up to be an excellent DVD, full of the kind of wacky propaganda the benefit of hindsight allows us to make fun of). I have been looking forward to this DVD ever since it was first rumoured....

However, I do feel the need to correct you.

All war is wrong, as you say. The UN Charter expressly states this in Article 1(1). War is illegal. Period. And the bullshit term "war on terror" is even more absurd because "terrorism" is not defined under any international law (yet).

Now Resolution 1441 did determine that Iraq was in breach of the informal ceasefire, and that breach did constitute a breach of the 1991 ceasefire and a threat to international peace and security and thus SOME international action needed to be taken.

But nobody is suggesting that the US military HAS to do anything. It is only the US that believe they are the global police, as they have proven time and time again. If the US had not entered Iraq alone, it would not even BE a "war". As 2099net pointed out, it was the US who FUNDED Sadaam (and Bin Laden etc). Hussein may have been the most terrible dictator in the world - but his reach really wasn't that far. Until, of course, the US gave him a little helping hand.

Anybody dying for any war is wrong, particularly an unjust war where American soldiers - or any soldiers - didn't belong in the first place. And there was no legal justification for a Coalition action. So, Papi, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that Iraq is an ungrateful nation. Can you blame them for wanting the troops to leave ASAP after all the shit they've caused them?

2099net wrote:




there must be something wrong with America's foreign policy over the past few decades when it continuously funds and actively creates it's biggest enemies!

Now ain't that the truth! Of course, I'm a moderate, so I'll probably get attacked from both the right and the left for agreeing with you.
The topic has become quite polarized, and I can't see either the right or the left conceding at this point. Can't we just go back to enjoying our cartoons and save it for another board?