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... I'd say Fox and the Hound, Pocahontas and Hunchback's endings are bittersweet at best.

DisneyJedi wrote:... I'd say Fox and the Hound, Pocahontas and Hunchback's endings are bittersweet at best.

The Hunchback of Notre Dame's ending is rather less bittersweet than the former two.

In Disneys official canon, I don't think I've seen one I've had any real gripe towards. Not even the cheapquels.

Snow White
Bambi
Cinderella
The Aristocats
Hercules
Tangled

The one that shocks people the most is Herc.

I can understand Hercules. The ingredients are there for me to like it, like the Alan Menken songs, the Aladdin-esque humour and James Woods as Hades. I just don't find it that funny, I'm not hugely fond of the art style, the story is basically "Rocky Meets Superman" with a dash of Greek mythology and I find Hercules himself to be a bit too cocky. I do love the soundtrack, but as a whole, Hercules falls short for me.

Mulan is another one I want to like and there are times when I've thought of giving it another shot, but the movie kind of bores me, I find the songs unimpressive (with the exception of "Reflection", which is very nice) and even Mulan I don't find all that interesting.

Part of me wants to say that I really like the animal films, but in hindsight, a lot of them aren't that great! I've never been much for Oliver or Bolt, and The Aristocats will always rank among the weakest in my eyes. But at the same time, as someone who is really sick of people associating Disney with the princesses, I do wish that they'd make more good animal films. And when it comes to some of the better ones, I have to admit that I care more for Dumbo, Bambi, and Lady and the Tramp more than most of the human films, and I will never understand the smear campaign people on here have out for The Lion King.

There's good, but on average, the human films are typically stronger than the animals.

Atlantis would be my choice. I have quite a few friends that love the movie and it has its following, but the movie just doesn't do it for me. I thought the characters were mostly boring except for Milo (maybe because I'm biased for Michael J. Fox) and Vinny (He was the only side character I thought was funny).

All the other characters were just there and the villains were really cliche. Also, I thought the romance with Milo and Kida was very underdeveloped.

The Lion King for me.

I don't connect to it; I know people love it so much, and it's a huge world wide beloved film …. but I just don't get it. I've tried really hard; repeated viewings, listening to the soundtrack and it just doesnt do it for me. I can see its enjoyable, but thats about as far as it goes.

ProfessorRatigan wrote: Mulan. Again, I've talked before about my problems with this film, so I won't take up too much time. Mushu, unremarkable songs, unremarkable villain, anti-climatic climax. All of the worst tropes of 90s Disney are here and I don't understand why this film gets a pass while other, better films, like Hunchback and Hercules, do not. Also: am pretty sick of the myth that this film made more than Pocahontas and Hunchback or that it continues to be more 'beloved' due to Disney's insidious marketing. (But, that's another rant.)

Yeah and that's why you have to act condescending with every one who tries to point out it's flaws? I love "Hunchback" myself, but I don't try to bring people down who are pointing out the flaws.

Either way, to add my list:

I'm underwhelmed by "Mulan" myself, mostly because of the aforementioned reasons. It's a fine film, but compared to the other films from the 90's, it's pretty lackluster. I'm in the minority here, but I thought the score was lackluster. Shan-Yu is a lackluster villain and Shang is a personality-deprived hero. Mulan herself is interesting and does portray some spunk at the beginning, but quickly she looses it and becomes boring. Most of the characters are stereotypes. The songs are forgettable and the film itself lacks the magic and spark that the best films from the 90's have.

"Toy Story 2": It's not bad at all, but it doesn't deserve the massive praise that it's get. It has charm and cute moments, but overall I find it to be inferior to the first one. Too much melodrama, too many villains and subplots and a inferior score.

"Monsters Inc": It suffers the problem that I have with many Pixar films; Too generic and not memorable.

I like Mulan, but I can't really argue against most of those points. I do like the soundtrack (How can you not like "I'll Make a Man Out of You"?), but the characters leave a lot to be desired for.

- Fantasia - No matter how many times I tried watching it, it always puts me to sleep.

- The Sword in the Stone - I just don't get the love for this movie, it's clunky and disjointed, and the tone is never balanced.

- The Jungle Book - same as above but to the nth degree, too episodic for my taste. I do like most of the characters, though.

- Winnie the Pooh films - Just too juvenile for my taste. There are of course genuine moments of wisdom sprinkled throughout that have left me floored the first time I watched them, but you have too suffer through babyish stuff first.

- The Great Mouse Detective - Another movie that I don't get all the love for. I only watched it once about ten years ago and the terrible pacing stuck out like a sore thumb. The hero was beyond any likeability and I wasn't impressed with the villain either. I guess I should probably give it another try.

Avaitor wrote:I like Mulan, but I can't really argue against most of those points. I do like the soundtrack (How can you not like "I'll Make a Man Out of You"?), but the characters leave a lot to be desired for.

I disagree there. The only thing I would agree with Prof. Ratigan on in regards to Mulan is Mulan herself, but I've talked about that before. Shan-Yu is one of my favorite villains from the Renaissance, along with Ursula, Hades, Scar, and Frollo. I like the climax, although it would be better if the fight between the two lasted a bit longer. I know Mushu should fall in the same category as Tantor, Terk, the gargoyles, Timon and Pumbaa, but for some reason he just works for me. It's probably because, overall, Mulan is not as serious as Tarzan (see the army humor, Grandmother Fa, etc.), Hunchback or TLK, so he doesn't seem as out-of-place. The songs do leave something to be desired, especially since it's Menken-less when he was still on top, but the only one I would say is outright bad is "True to Your Heart."

I feel ashamed whenever I disagree with Professor Ratigan, because we have agreed on so many other things in the past. I respect his opinions enormously.

DisneyFan09 wrote:Yeah and that's why you have to act condescending with every one who tries to point out it's flaws? I love "Hunchback" myself, but I don't try to bring people down who are pointing out the flaws.

I'm sorry, but what the HELL are you talking about? Whenever I disagree with someone on here, I try to engage and debate. I've never felt I've condescended unless that person condescended to me first. Just because I will defend a film that, I feel, gets hit harder than any of the other films of the Renaissance (except for maybe Hercules), I'm condescending? I really don't see how. When someone responds to me, I try to respond back. And I have strong opinions. But, condescending? Really?

Mooky wrote:The Great Mouse Detective - Another movie that I don't get all the love for. I only watched it once about ten years ago and the terrible pacing stuck out like a sore thumb. The hero was beyond any likeability and I wasn't impressed with the villain either. I guess I should probably give it another try.

You should! I, for one, find Basil to be one of the more well-rounded heroes in the canon. He starts off ego-centric and anti-social and over the course of the film, due to his relationship with Dawson and Olivia, grows a heart. Even though he's much too proud to show it. And Ratigan is just brilliant. (But, then, I'm biased. )

Disney's Divinity wrote:I feel ashamed whenever I disagree with Professor Ratigan, because we have agreed on so many other things in the past. I respect his opinions enormously.

Ah, that's sweet. You've always been one of my favorite posters, Divinity. So, the feeling's mutual.

ProfessorRatigan wrote: I'm sorry, but what the HELL are you talking about? Whenever I disagree with someone on here, I try to engage and debate. I've never felt I've condescended unless that person condescended to me first. Just because I will defend a film that, I feel, gets hit harder than any of the other films of the Renaissance (except for maybe Hercules), I'm condescending? I really don't see how. When someone responds to me, I try to respond back. And I have strong opinions. But, condescending? Really?

Well, I've thought that you were condescending. But either way, I apologize. It wasn't my intention to offend you.

No worries.

This is kind of a difficult question for me, cause in the case of Disney's CG movies I don't try to like them at all. I just hate them, pure and simple. But if it were a matter of "movies you wish you could like, but don't", then I'd probably say Wreck-It Ralph, cause I like video games and I'm admittingly a fan of Sonic the Hedgehog so I should by all rights like the cameos in the film, but in the end I still disapprove of Disney making that film and feel that it's not really their place to be making an animated film like that at all. Disney is supposed to be a hand-drawn studio that's meant for hand-drawn films, not films deliberately designed around being CGI. Even their 2D animators were put to waste doing pencil tests for a film that wasn't going to be hand-drawn in the first place.

the lion king is one im not fond of on home tv screens. when it was re-released in 3d, i think i saw it 2 or 3 times and was blown away every single time. somehow it loses some of its magic when viewed at home, and thats on a decent size screen too. i think a decent surround sound system would help some, but not enough.

The Incredibles. I don't dislike it per se. I just find it kind of boring. And (I'm really sorry to say this) Syndrome is annoying. Pretty much the only thing in the movie to me that's entertaining is Edna Mode.

2Disney4Ever wrote:This is kind of a difficult question for me, cause in the case of Disney's CG movies I don't try to like them at all. I just hate them, pure and simple. But if it were a matter of "movies you wish you could like, but don't", then I'd probably say Wreck-It Ralph, cause I like video games and I'm admittingly a fan of Sonic the Hedgehog so I should by all rights like the cameos in the film, but in the end I still disapprove of Disney making that film and feel that it's not really their place to be making an animated film like that at all. Disney is supposed to be a hand-drawn studio that's meant for hand-drawn films, not films deliberately designed around being CGI. Even their 2D animators were put to waste doing pencil tests for a film that wasn't going to be hand-drawn in the first place.

Ok.. I'm just gonna leave this because I don't want to attack you or waste both of our time.

I'm ok with Disney making CGI movies because to me, disney is all about the storytelling. I could care less if it's hand drawn or computer generated, as long as the storytelling magic is there, I am perfectly fine with it. Now Bolt was horrible, and I don't remember Chicken Little... But Wreck it Ralph is among the best animated movies I have ever seen.
I'm sorry that Disney no longer makes hand drawn movies, but why do this to yourself? The magic that we grew up with, all the hand drawn animated movies STILL exist and will forever be remembered.
This is like a guy banning Nokia smartphones because he believes that they should only make regular cell phones.

You can do whatever you want, but it actually saddens me that you ignore these movies. Frozen was really good, and Wreck it ralph was outstanding! Tangled is worth a watch. I feel like what you're doing is not helping at all. These are movies that are meant to be watched and celebrated, not ignored because of the format they are in.
I'm all for making more 2D movies, but seeing the amazing storytelling that is still intact with CG movies (especially How to Train Your Dragon 2) is more than enough for me.
Think about that. You're crusade for hand drawn movies is not gonna solve anything, so just try to enjoy the storytelling that still exists within Disney.

Also, are you against all the live action movies that Disney have made, like Mary Poppins?

Yes, focus on the storytelling. You're really missing out.