DVDizzy Forum

See, I always called the more recent films part of a "Rejuvenation" era. Slowly but surely, Disney gained momentum and relevance in the average person's life. Their plots had new twists, the CGI was being used well, and songs were good if not great.

But now I realize how that sounds like Rapunzel's healing hair, AKA Tangled, was the catalyst. Which personally isn't how I resonate.

Historically speaking the Reformation followed the Renaissance, so there's a another name for the newer movies: Disney Reformation.

ProfessorRatigan wrote:For years, I've resented The Lion King's success and hoped I'd get to see it knocked off the top spot. Now that that's actually a reality, I'm a little disappointed to see it happen. Especially by a film as weak as Frozen. The Lion King has a lot of problems, but, holy hell, Frozen has about a dozen more. What'll be interesting to see is if Disney starts hyping up Frozen and comparing everything released after it negatively to it. Will they learn the lesson that they obviously HAVEN'T learned in the 20 years since TLK's release that NOT EVERYTHING IS COMPARABLE TO THAT FILM? Or will they, over the course of the next 20 years, continue the same, tired trend of seeing everything as a 'failure' in light of the unforeseen, runaway success of Frozen? It's going to interesting to see.

I also wonder if, because of its success, Frozen will be the first 'modern' film to be ushered into the 'Diamond Edition' line-up. One thing is for sure, we're going to see A LOT more Frozen merchandise in the coming years. That's for damn sure.

Exactly. I'm concerned about the next films' success due to Frozen. Like Big Hero 6 could be a great film, but would suffer from the Pocahontas syndrome: comes right after a huge hit and everybody hates it and is deemed a "failure" by Disney.

thedisneyspirit wrote: Exactly. I'm concerned about the next films' success due to Frozen. Like Big Hero 6 could be a great film, but would suffer from the Pocahontas syndrome: comes right after a huge hit and everybody hates it and is deemed a "failure" by Disney.

At least there are other films slated for production that promise to be very good too. Disney will continue trying different things. I just hope they don't stray as far from the proven winning formula as they did in the 2000's. Somehow the magic is felt more when films are musical, magical (fairytale or not), and most of all has a deep and moving story and theme, like Beauty and The Beast did with the them of inner beauty and love, or Aladdin with being yourself, or The Lion King with taking your rightful place and be responsible, or now Frozen with true love means selflessness and sacrifice. When they strayed from that with Atlantis, Treasure Planet, Chicken Little, Home on the Range, etc. and experimented with comedy, sassiness, cynical lines and no songs (or bad and unmemorable songs in a few exceptions), they had one failure after another. Even in the dark 2000's, the movies that did best were the ones that incorporated the deep themes and heartfelt plots (Lilo and Stitch with the theme of family and Brother Bear with the theme of coming of age and maturing). Now Frozen followed that formula, and was a huge hit! I hope Disney has finally learned the lesson and sticks with it. Story, Heart, Magic and Music are the four key ingredients that make a Disney movie be the Disney we all love and grew up with and have success. And a delicious villain doesn't hurt either!

Angeldude98 wrote:

thedisneyspirit wrote: Exactly. I'm concerned about the next films' success due to Frozen. Like Big Hero 6 could be a great film, but would suffer from the Pocahontas syndrome: comes right after a huge hit and everybody hates it and is deemed a "failure" by Disney.

At least there are other films slated for production that promise to be very good too. Disney will continue trying different things. I just hope they don't stray as far from the proven winning formula as they did in the 2000's. Somehow the magic is felt more when films are musical, magical (fairytale or not), and most of all has a deep and moving story and theme, like Beauty and The Beast did with the them of inner beauty and love, or Aladdin with being yourself, or The Lion King with taking your rightful place and be responsible, or now Frozen with true love means selflessness and sacrifice. When they strayed from that with Atlantis, Treasure Planet, Chicken Little, Home on the Range, etc. and experimented with comedy, sassiness, cynical lines and no songs (or bad and unmemorable songs in a few exceptions), they had one failure after another. Even in the dark 2000's, the movies that did best were the ones that incorporated the deep themes and heartfelt plots (Lilo and Stitch with the theme of family and Brother Bear with the theme of coming of age and maturing). Now Frozen followed that formula, and was a huge hit! I hope Disney has finally learned the lesson and sticks with it. Story, Heart, Magic and Music are the four key ingredients that make a Disney movie be the Disney we all love and grew up with and have success. And a delicious villain doesn't hurt either!

I think those movies are good, dude. Dunno what's your problem. You just seem like a hater and a nostalgia obsessed grandpa. "In my days, blah and blah were this!".

Let Disney experiment, for God's sakes. I'm tired of only watching fairy tales and princesses from Disney, I want new things.

thedisneyspirit wrote:

Angeldude98 wrote: At least there are other films slated for production that promise to be very good too. Disney will continue trying different things. I just hope they don't stray as far from the proven winning formula as they did in the 2000's. Somehow the magic is felt more when films are musical, magical (fairytale or not), and most of all has a deep and moving story and theme, like Beauty and The Beast did with the them of inner beauty and love, or Aladdin with being yourself, or The Lion King with taking your rightful place and be responsible, or now Frozen with true love means selflessness and sacrifice. When they strayed from that with Atlantis, Treasure Planet, Chicken Little, Home on the Range, etc. and experimented with comedy, sassiness, cynical lines and no songs (or bad and unmemorable songs in a few exceptions), they had one failure after another. Even in the dark 2000's, the movies that did best were the ones that incorporated the deep themes and heartfelt plots (Lilo and Stitch with the theme of family and Brother Bear with the theme of coming of age and maturing). Now Frozen followed that formula, and was a huge hit! I hope Disney has finally learned the lesson and sticks with it. Story, Heart, Magic and Music are the four key ingredients that make a Disney movie be the Disney we all love and grew up with and have success. And a delicious villain doesn't hurt either!

I think those movies are good, dude. Dunno what's your problem. You just seem like a hater and a nostalgia obsessed grandpa. "In my days, blah and blah were this!".

Let Disney experiment, for God's sakes. I'm tired of only watching fairy tales and princesses from Disney, I want new things.

I agree with Angeldude98, and apparently so does the general public. You can buy a brand new copy of Home on the Range for five bucks. Five bucks! That's not because Disney and Walmart banded together to be generous. It's because not that many people like the movie and if they price it low enough, hopefully SOMEONE will buy a copy. And there will never be commercials touting how Atlantis or Treasure Planet are being released from the vault, again, because the general public wouldn't care, get excited, etc.

At the end of the day, Disney is running a business. They will make what sells. If we are lucky they will make something that is artistically beautiful and sells (rather than something that just sells like Chipmunks or Smurfs). Doubtless there will be SOME experimentation - not for experimentation sake, but more as a means of fighting against staleness (I.e., people not seeing a movie because they feel like, "been there, done that").

We get it. You don't like Disney fairy tales/musicals much. You want a Disney horror movie. You've made your point. Resorting to name calling (hater and a nostalgia obsessed grandpa) does nothing to bolster your point.

First of all i should say i have not seen FROZEN, but I've seen like 10 minutes of it, the songs mostly.

I should say that it seems to me one of the worst Disney films.
(I had that notion even from the trailer).

How can those songs or scenes be compared to masterpieces like Beauty and the Beast, or Hunchback or even the old classics like Snow white etc.?
I don't know but i don't like computer animation. (I only like some Pixar ones, which have a very good script mostly)
Hand-drawn animation has a magic that computer animation never will.
Seriously, can the aesthetics of Bambi which is like seeing paintings, be compared with this?
This looks like only a bit better than a cheap Barbie TV movie.
I watch "Out there" from Hunchback and get goosebumps by the artistry of it.
I watch any song from Frozen and can't see any artistic value at all!

Has anyone seen the Russian animation film from 1957 "The Snow Queen"?
That is a masterpiece! That is quality! That is ART! That is sheer beauty and poetry for the eyes!


I wish Disney would get back to hand-drawn animation (well, it got back with princess and the Frog, but it should have picked a better story and better music+songs), but it seems it's dead.
Thank God there is still the Ghibli studios which hasn't given in the computer animation craze and delivers fine hand-drawn masterpieces! Maybe they know something more, that Disney doesn't?

^^

I respect your opinon, but you haven't even seen it yet pretty much. keep watching before making remarks like this

I'm sorry but you can't base Frozen off the trailer as that does not represent the film at all and honestly, this is one of the best Disney films in a long time and just because it was computer animated shouldn't matter. The story is solid, the songs are amazing and up there with the likes of The Sherman's and Menken/Ashman. Honestly, Disney bad found their next great composing team with Robert and Kristen-Anderson Lopez. Let It Go, For The First Time In Forever, and Love Is An Open Door are all fantastic songs. So, please just see the film before you decry it.

Yeah, the trailer is not a good indication of the film itself. And I could say more good things about it, but my advice, go see the film yourself and then, decide for yourself. Personally, I would not listen to songs or watch clips before watching the movie itself, as I want my first times with them, be part of the movie-watching experience.

Plus you are cheating yourself from seeing Mickey Mouse on the big screen, which plays before the movie.

As I said, I also watched almost all the songs. (not just the trailer)
I didn't talk about the story but about the visual style and artistic quality of what I saw.

I just watched them before seeing the movie, because i know i don't want to see the movie. It's not something that interests me in the least. I've seen hundreds of films and animation films because i LOVE animation more than anything, so i think I know what I like and what I don't like.

(I also didn't like Tangled, Brave and such stuff.. I saw the whole movies. I can't feel the thing I'm feeling with hand-drawn animation. I watched Don Bluth's Balto the other day and i was blown away!)

Anyway, I wouldn't like to be considered as a hater.
Just saying my opinion here, having formed a certain aesthetics all these years about animation in generally..

filmmusic wrote: I watched Don Bluth's Balto the other day and i was blown away!

So blown away that you're giving Don Bluth credit for a movie he had nothing to do with. Balto was directed by Simon Wells.
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Escapay wrote:I'm calling this The Resurgence.

Warm Regards wrote:I always called the more recent films part of a "Rejuvenation" era.

I prefer "The Regurgitation Era" myself.

DancingCrab wrote:

filmmusic wrote: I watched Don Bluth's Balto the other day and i was blown away!

So blown away that you're giving Don Bluth credit for a movie he had nothing to do with. Balto was directed by Simon Wells.

Ok, sorry, in my mind it had remained like it was coming from the Bluth studios. (i didn't mean he directed it)
But apparently it's not coming from this.

filmmusic wrote:I've seen hundreds of films and animation films because i LOVE animation more than anything

filmmusic wrote: watched Don Bluth's Balto the other day and i was blown away!)

But yeah, as already pointed out, Don Bluth did not direct Balto. Which is actually quite a mediocre film if you'd ask me.

filmmusic wrote:

DancingCrab wrote: So blown away that you're giving Don Bluth credit for a movie he had nothing to do with. Balto was directed by Simon Wells.

Ok, sorry, in my mind it had remained like it was coming from the Bluth studios. (i didn't mean he directed it)
But apparently it's not coming from this.

To add to the corrections in this thread, Don Bluth's production company had nothing to do with Balto. Balto was made by Amblimation, Steven Spielberg's short-lived animation studio (and him and Bluth had already split up many years before Balto began production).

And you honestly don't know what films you will like or dislike. Nobody does. I've seen movies I thought I would love that I ended up not caring for as well as ones that didn't seem like my cup of tea that I ended up liking a lot.

estefan wrote: And you honestly don't know what films you will like or dislike. Nobody does. I've seen movies I thought I would love that I ended up not caring for as well as ones that didn't seem like my cup of tea that I ended up liking a lot.

When i say I like, i mean visually. Of course i can't know the story if I haven't seen the film.
But don't you know if you watch 10 minutes of an animation film, if you like its style or not, aesthetically speaking?

filmmusic wrote:First of all i should say i have not seen FROZEN, but I've seen like 10 minutes of it, the songs mostly.

I should say that it seems to me one of the worst Disney films.
(I had that notion even from the trailer).

You shouldn't judge modern Disney movies from the trailers, the trailers are terrible, bit they do it to drag in today's families and kids whom are most used to a more Alvin & The Chipmunks like children's movie.

Most of us, despise the trailers. If you want a better feel of what the movie is like, go watch the Japanese trailer c;

thelittleursula wrote:

filmmusic wrote:First of all i should say i have not seen FROZEN, but I've seen like 10 minutes of it, the songs mostly.

I should say that it seems to me one of the worst Disney films.
(I had that notion even from the trailer).

You shouldn't judge modern Disney movies from the trailers, the trailers are terrible, bit they do it to drag in today's families and kids whom are most used to a more Alvin & The Chipmunks like children's movie.

Most of us, despise the trailers. If you want a better feel of what the movie is like, go watch the Japanese trailer c;

and I'm saying again for the 3rd time:
I didn't see just the trailer.
I saw 4-5 complete songs from the movie.
That could be even more than 10 minutes of it.

But even if i had seen the trailer only, I'm not judging the story or script.
I'm judging the visual style, and 1 minute is enough for me to say if something is pleasant to my eyes or not.

filmmusic wrote:

thelittleursula wrote: You shouldn't judge modern Disney movies from the trailers, the trailers are terrible, bit they do it to drag in today's families and kids whom are most used to a more Alvin & The Chipmunks like children's movie.

Most of us, despise the trailers. If you want a better feel of what the movie is like, go watch the Japanese trailer c;

and I'm saying again for the 3rd time:
I didn't see just the trailer.
I saw 4-5 complete songs from the movie.
That could be even more than 10 minutes of it.

But even if i had seen the trailer only, I'm not judging the story or script.
I'm judging the visual style, and 1 minute is enough for me to say if something is pleasant to my eyes or not.

However, you're still passing judgement.

Just because you personally don't care for CG animation does not mean that it's bad!

Don't judge animated films based on the type of animation it uses alone (doing that is a form of being racist/discriminatory)--it's only part of it. The story is always the most important ingredient.

so, if you like hand drawn, does that mean you like every single hand drawn movie ever produced, no matter the company? i love hand drawn, but there are many movies that i thought looked or sounded like rubbish that have turned out to be amazing [howls moving castle which is now a favourite! initially the title put me off, and then the style of animation. at the time, i was "disney or nothing!" lol.] and others that looked amazing but were actually a waste of time and money.

i also enjoy balto, and the sequels, but frozen leaves them miles behind in all respects.

RyGuy wrote: I agree with Angeldude98, and apparently so does the general public. You can buy a brand new copy of Home on the Range for five bucks. Five bucks! That's not because Disney and Walmart banded together to be generous. It's because not that many people like the movie and if they price it low enough, hopefully SOMEONE will buy a copy. And there will never be commercials touting how Atlantis or Treasure Planet are being released from the vault, again, because the general public wouldn't care, get excited, etc.

At the end of the day, Disney is running a business. They will make what sells. If we are lucky they will make something that is artistically beautiful and sells (rather than something that just sells like Chipmunks or Smurfs). Doubtless there will be SOME experimentation - not for experimentation sake, but more as a means of fighting against staleness (I.e., people not seeing a movie because they feel like, "been there, done that").

We get it. You don't like Disney fairy tales/musicals much. You want a Disney horror movie. You've made your point. Resorting to name calling (hater and a nostalgia obsessed grandpa) does nothing to bolster your point.

Thanks RyGuy! I appreciate that! I don't think I'd qualify as a grandpa as I'm still in my early 30's. Having different opinions is great, but name calling is never cool. I choose to ignore it. We can all have different tastes and opinions, but we need to respect each other. I loved Frozen and I think they finally got it and corrected what they had been doing wrong. The results of the movies from 2000-2009 prove it! All those experiments failed! They may have their fans, obviously, but in the end they failed because that's not what most people who love Disney wanted to see and as a result the box office returns were low. In the end it is a business and they'll make what works and is successful. And it's clear that the vast majority of people prefer the classic Disney formula than having movies that keep trying to be different and flopping one after another. For those that like that sort of thing, there are plenty of other choices out there from other studios. Let Disney just be Disney! People go to a Disney movie expecting the magic! And they're not all fairytales! The Lion King, The Jungle Book, Aladdin, Pocahontas, The Hunchback, etc. All followed the formula and it worked, yet all were different! The problem is not different movies and stories, the problem is settling for something when it can be so much better! I can only imagine what the original and epic "Kingdom of the Sun" would have been like, had they followed the original director's idea. However, they decided they wanted to experiment with a comedic side and make it simpler, and we got "Emperor's New Groove" instead, which was a mild success and was met with mixed reactions. Now Frozen has once again proven that the magic touch of classic Disney still works, and people want it, hand drawn or CGI. Frozen delivered what we've been waiting for since "The Lion king". I do hope they keep making movies like that!