DVDizzy Forum

PatrickvD, how dare you?! Michael Jackson was awesome!

Wicked The Musical wins hands down over OZ: The Great and Powerful. OZ was a good movie, but Wicked has a much better story. The characters are much more developed, and I think the music was very memorable. My favorite songs were The Wizard and I, Dancing Through Life, Popular, Defying Gravity and Wonderful. I was really hoping OZ would be a great film, but I was sadly disappointed. And I am a huge OZ fan. I have read all 18 books. I hope they don't do a sequel, one was enough. And we know what happens next.

DisneyJedi wrote:PatrickvD, how dare you?! Michael Jackson was awesome!

Yes, but his performance in that movie is not.

Hell, the movie as a whole is not. See?

You know what? I am SICK of people putting down The Wiz. I happen to love it because it's a different take on the Oz tale.

DisneyJedi wrote:You know what? I am SICK of people putting down The Wiz. I happen to love it because it's a different take on the Oz tale.

To put it friendly, Duster politely asked for my opinion, so I gave it. You don't like my opinion and I don't care. When did I or anyone else for that matter say you can't love The Wiz? Hell, I'm happy you love it. Anything to make you happy and not overreact to every damn thing all the time.

Seriously, you need to start meditating or something. There isn't a thing on earth that doesn't upset you.

To be fair, Michael Jackson was the best part about The Wiz. It wasn't an Oscar worthy performance or anything, but you could tell he was the only actor in the movie that was actually trying.

DVDBuff1 wrote:To be fair, Michael Jackson was the best part about The Wiz. It wasn't an Oscar worthy performance or anything, but you could tell he was the only actor in the movie that was actually trying.

Diana Ross was actually the worst one in the cast. She was completely miscast. I didn't buy her for one second.

I haven't even seen Oz: the Great and Powerful yet (I will at some point, but it's not on my list of priorities) and I can tell you Wicked is better. I don't like either, tbh, but at least Wicked resulted in a musical with some good songs and basically launched Idina Menzel and Kristen Chenoweth (I didn't know them before Wicked blew up, anyway).

The actual stage show of The Wiz is pretty cool. IThe movie, though, just doesn't work for me. I love Sidney Lumet, but he was way out of his league here.

They are both not very good. But "Wicked" earns bonus "not very good" points for taking a solid book and turning it into total dreck bereft of internal logic. I won't claim that Theodora is well-written by any means, but I wouldn't argue that she makes Elphaba particularly well-written by default. I'd be more likely to sit through "Oz" than I would be "Wicked," because "Oz" at least doesn't require me to stomach Stephen Schwartz's craptacular lyrics and Winnie Holzman's pedestrain book, which reads like Maguire's novel but rewritten for idiots.

And Michael Jackson is one of the few parts of "The Wiz" that works. Diana Ross and Sidney Lumet are both easily the biggest offenders.

There were some bad or awkward parts in the Wiz, but everyone was trying and Michael Jackson and Diana Ross were highlights. Diana Ross cried and poured her heart out, especially in the end song, so how the hell did anyone "not buy it" for a minute? Anyway I still say as a whole the Wiz is awesome and a great movie.

I saw Wicked while I was in NYC this past week. It was exhilarating, it made me tear up a few times. I've listened to the soundtrack for years so I knew most of the songs by heart, and of course, I've read the synopsis on Wikipedia, but neither can replace the experience of seeing it and hearing it in the actual theater. I've also read Gregory Maguire's book about 10 to 15 years ago, and I have to say, this is one of those rare occasions where an adaptation improves on the book, IMO. The book is even more political than the musical, which in itself is fine, but I also found it kind of tedious and boring. It's probably why I never bothered with the sequels even though I own two of them. The musical keeps the political subplot but also cuts several other storylines, and keeps the focus on Glinda and Elphaba's friendship.

Also, seeing it live made me realize just how much of Wicked Disney aped, whether intentionally or unintentionally:
- Charlotte La Bouff is very much Glinda-esque
- the whole Elsa/Elphaba/"Let It Go"/"Defying Gravity"/Idina Menzel thing
- Maleficent and the misunderstood villain trope
- Asha/Magnifico and Elphaba/The Wizard, it's all too similar

Yeah, McGuire's book is interesting, but admittedly a bit of a chore to work through.

Disney lifting elements from popular works is just fine IMO, especially when the work is good. Films in popular culture all exist in an ecosystem, and so it's inevitable that they'd influence one another. And it's not like it's never happened in reverse--the original "Wizard of Oz" film itself actually owes A LOT to Snow White. The Elsphaba case especially feels like Disney is deliberately invoking Idina Menzel's star power to endow their character with more authority. Wish is the only instance in which its feels like imitation vs inspiration to me.

I am so glad you saw it and felt all that, Mooky! And now...we can be excited for the Universal Films!!!!

PatchofBlue wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:39 pm Yeah, McGuire's book is interesting, but admittedly a bit of a chore to work through.

Disney lifting elements from popular works is just fine IMO, especially when the work is good. Films in popular culture all exist in an ecosystem, and so it's inevitable that they'd influence one another. And it's not like it's never happened in reverse--the original "Wizard of Oz" film itself actually owes A LOT to Snow White. The Elsphaba case especially feels like Disney is deliberately invoking Idina Menzel's star power to endow their character with more authority. Wish is the only instance in which its feels like imitation vs inspiration to me.

Hard disagree on that assessment of wish. Especially when you do consider that it is the movie meant to represent 100 years of Disney, so therefore I would say it’s more of an inspiration to have something that represents rather than imitation, if you get what I mean. Seriously, this really is an excellent example of the problem being the solution, because however much as everyone criticizes wish, and you’re certainly allowed not to like it, but objectively, you are really overthinking and being misguided when the very truth and nature of it is right there No matter what no matter how otherwise it may seem