DVDizzy Forum

The thing is, laserdisc and vhs do not look that blurry.
I have my BATB vhs transferred to dvd, and it is just as sharp as the dvd version. And there is not much difference in picture quality in laserdisc and vhs (if working well).

Even those old vhs and laserdisc trailers look sharper than those screencaps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZiv2z77jXI

Mmm...vaseline.

Wonderlicious wrote:Mmm...vaseline.

....is what Ascapay uses on these images

Um... enough with the vaseline, people. Just cause some subscribe blindly to the latest medium, doesn't mean one has to trash the ones who don't.

I, for one, think that VHS provided much better quality than most remember. I do think dvd was an improvement on that (cant speak for LD, since I never had one). I also thinkn restorations and transfers play a big part in all this, and the screen one is watching the movie on as well (and the cables one uses! Coaxil was always worse than RCA...)...

I gotta say, looking at that trailer, the color difference is pretty shocking...

Marky, I re-captured all the images at their native resolutions (they were all captured at 800x445), simply to show that I did not, as you so eloquently accuse, use vaseline on them. In addition, I took the LD captures and downsized them to VHS resolution to give you the size and clarity that you prefer:

VHS (320x240)


Laserdisc (565x425)


DVD (720x404 - anamorphic)


VHS (320x240)


Laserdisc (565x425)


DVD (720x404 - anamorphic)


I also took the liberty of making a screen cap from the theatrical trailer on the DVD, in comparison to the fuzzy video you linked to on YouTube, and captured it again in the actual film on the DVD and LaserDisc. Because the trailer is not an anamorphic image (on the DVD), it is vertically higher than the film, as that is anamorphic. I also downsized the DVD cap of the Trailer to VHS quality, to show how a smaller image can "look" sharper because there's less pixels, and thus, the flaws get masked under a smaller resolution.

"Downsized-to-VHS-Resolution" Trailer (320x240)


YouTube (480x360)


LaserDisc (565x425)


DVD (720x404 - anamorphic)


Trailer (720x540)


Make of it what you will, but I doubt this will change anything. You have your preferences. You have your beliefs. You have your bluntness in telling people why they're wrong and you're right, regardless who in the argument actually is.

And frankly, life is too short for me to waste my time arguing with you about your biased agenda regarding Disney and restorations, video quality, sources of light, "you don't understand," color differences between mass-produced home media and other ephemera, or any other nonsense. I'll enjoy my movies, you can wallow in your disappointment.

So long, farewell, and thanks for all the milk buds.



Albert

"You have your preferences. You have your beliefs. You have your bluntness in telling people why they're wrong and you're right, regardless who in the argument actually is."

No Albert, this is not about being wrong or being right. This is about what I prefer.
I could post tons of screencaps here, of removed sleeves and dress-parts in Cinderella, changed animation in Sleeping Beauty, Beauty and the Beast, The Lion King or even messed up orchestra's or lyrics.

If you don't care about all that or can't understand that someone does, than that's fine too. If you only care about extreme sharpness than that's fine too. To me it doesn't add anything to the film, in fact, it takes away a lot. To me, the dvd screencap you posted looks like it comes right out of "the return of jafar" direct to dvd.

I prefer watching the Aladdin I know, and that's why I asked this question.

So much for "so long, farewell, and thanks for all the milk buds." But I cannot sit here while you perpetuate lies:

Marky_198 wrote:"You have your preferences. You have your beliefs. You have your bluntness in telling people why they're wrong and you're right, regardless who in the argument actually is."

No Albert, this is not about being wrong or being right. This is about what I prefer.

Whenever the issues of restoration come up in any discussion - be it here or another thread - you're quick to tell people what's wrong and what's right.

Marky [url=http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24580&p=471603&hilit=wrong#p471603]in this post[/url] wrote:It has nothing to do with that.

The scene is wrong and damaged.
It seems like you have double standards.

Marky [url=http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25770&p=470981&hilit=wrong#p470981]in this post[/url] wrote:And then you find out that you were wrong, you suddenly say "Oh well, I just like the new version anyway, it's much more romantic".
You see what you want to see, but you can't deny facts.

Marky [url=http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24373&p=464317&hilit=wrong#p464317]in this post[/url] wrote:If you had taken a look at the clip yourself, you would have noticed everything that's wrong with it yourself.
Just laughing at my posts and your reaction doesn't come across as very interested.

Sometimes, you say a person - even one with authority like Don Hahn - is wrong without even giving valid reasons why:

Marky [url=http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=529863#p529863]in this post[/url] wrote:Well, obviously he's talking rubbish. And let me tell you why.

Marky_198 wrote:If you don't care about all that or can't understand that someone does, than that's fine too. If you only care about extreme sharpness than that's fine too.

See, I was all set to just go away and forget about you forever, but really, that crossed the line.

I don't care which version of Aladdin you want to watch. We all have our preferences, we agree upon that. But there is no need for you to passive-aggressively suggest that I don't care about the film as intensely as you do. I can't let you walk away from this conversation without understanding something: Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast are my favorite Disney films of all time. I care about them very much. Much more so than your accusation that I only care about "extreme sharpness." Really? REALLY?!?

I've collected both films on multiple mediums in order to enjoy them any which way I desire. Some days, I want to watch the Blu-Ray. Some days, I'll put in the VHS. Some days, I'll fire up the Laserdisc player (and wait for its 20-minute warm-up; I really need to get another one). My appreciation for the films have nothing to do with wanting the extreme sharpness or some other random rationale you concoct. If it were, I wouldn't have ever gone to the trouble of owning this many versions of Beauty and the Beast:



I don't have an Aladdin picture as I'm waiting for the Blu-Ray before I take one.

If you think I prefer extreme sharpness rather than the actual film, then I probably wouldn't have written these opening and closing paragraphs in an article for my weekly column:

• Saturday Matinee #111: Beauty and the Beast & Aladdin in "Deluxe Collector's Edition" VHS Sets (October 30, 1992 & October 1, 1993)
  
  Nearly every week here at Saturday Matinee, we cover a Disney cartoon, film sequence, or some other topic that is related to Disney filmmaking. More often than not, I close out these articles with information on where you can find a particular cartoon or movie on DVD and Blu-Ray. This week, we'll be changing things up a bit. Rather than focus on a cartoon or movie and how to find it on DVD, we'll be taking a look at something a bit more old school: VHS. Whatever you decide to call it - analog bits, videocasettes, faded memories - a whole generation grew up experiencing Disney animation this way. I was part of that generation, and I hope that this week's Saturday matinee will help those outside that generation to understand why I became so excited for a VHS purchase I made a few weeks ago. By some miraculous discovery, I had managed to acquire two things I never expected to find, as they had been out of print for years. They hold considerably less market value now than they did twenty years ago, but have created a treasured connection between my childhood memories and my adult appreciation for my two favorite Disney Animated Classics of all time: Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin.
  
  <snip>
  
  So there you have it. My return to childhood, with a new, adult perspective, and all it cost me was $10 and my trusty VCR. Over the past few weeks, I've been finding myself revisiting both Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin on the multiple formats I own thanks to my acquisition of these "Deluxe Collector's Edition" VHS sets. It made me realize just how in love I am with Belle and Aladdin, with Abu and Mrs. Potts, with little Chip. The wonderful characters, the beautiful imagery, the unforgettable music. How could I ever live without them? To this day, Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin remain part of an elite selection in my film library to receive such a level of dedication. For most films, I'm content with watching their supplements once or twice, even though some would deserve more viewings. But with Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin, I feel almost compelled to always peruse through the supplements anytime I'm in the mood to watch one of the films. My love affair with Belle and Aladdin will likely continue for the rest of my life. I savor every chance to fully invest myself into their worlds, not just as an animated escape from my own reality, but to return to a treasured childhood that believed in the magic and wonderment that such films offered.

Frankly, I doubt you could ever understand my love for these films. You only see them how you want to see them, and likewise, you see me how you want to see me. Such is the result of our varied arguments here on UD in the past. Not much will change for either of us, I admit. You'll continue to make threads that will display your crusade against Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment and their restoration efforts. I'll continue to laugh it off and eat milk buds. That's life. And as I said before, life is too short for me to waste my time arguing with you about your biased agenda regarding Disney and restorations, video quality, sources of light, "you don't understand," color differences between mass-produced home media and other ephemera, or any other nonsense. I'll enjoy my movies.

Have a magical day.



albert

Slightly off topic, but that last reply basically moved me to search for and buy one of those B&TB sets on Amazon. Cost me all of $10 after S&H. Just hope everything is in it. The seller description didn't mention anything missing, and they're usually pretty good about doing that, so I'm gonna trust that it will have everything I'm expecting. I hope to get more in the future - I used to see those in the stores and drool and lust after them so much but could never afford those high price tags, so basically, I'm making up for lost time. Although if you hadn't opened them and wanted to sell them, there ARE some going for very high prices on Amazon. Obviously I bought a used one.

Escapay, thanks for that reply. I don't doubt your love for these films. It is clear you love them.

I just want to say that the things I said, my quotes, are still very valid in my opinion, and they are about various things. Not just sharpness, but also alterations in colors, changed animation, changed dialogue, changed character lines, changed scenes, changed sources of light, changed music, changed parts in clothes, a much flatter look (sequel-ish), basically many things that completely changed a film.

So, I find that these new films don't give me the same feel at all as when I'm watching the version I grew up with.
This is the reason why I made this thread, because I don't have a laserdisc player myself and I would love to have that version of the film on dvd.

Of course you have the right to like both, or all versions of Aladdin or BATB, but I am completely sure that someone like you, who loves the films so much, must notice these differences too, or at least get a different feel while watching them too.

Wow, looks like I missed a huge argument

The benefit to Aladdin on laserdisc is mostly the audio - for one, they didn't remove that "good kitty, take off, go" line, and two since it's in stereo, it makes it easier to reverse-edit Arabian Nights to the way it's supposed to be (see my signature for a link to the one I did)

I'm all for people wanting different transfers of the movies, no need to be a jerk about it. I can hook you guys up with a rip if you want. It won't be very good - YET... I'm going to be working on getting "best possible quality" transfers of the "screwed up on DVD" releases done, by a guy who has an x9 laserdisc player and some awesome capture equipment. For now, we just have a DVD recorder's recording of a crappy $50 laserdisc player.

But I'd be happy to post if you want one right now... not sure what the time frame is on the better quality rips.

drfsupercenter, it would be great if you could post it.

Can you send me a pm?

Marky_198 wrote:I just want to say that the things I said, my quotes, are still very valid in my opinion, and they are about various things. Not just sharpness, but also alterations in colors, changed animation, changed dialogue, changed character lines, changed scenes, changed sources of light, changed music, changed parts in clothes, a much flatter look (sequel-ish), basically many things that completely changed a film.

I'm sure they're valid. I actually - shocker - agree with you on some aspects of Disney's meddling. I just don't like when my own love of a film is questioned simply because I disagree with another poster.

Also, I regret to say that I must now put on my moderator's cap and remind members of UD's rules regarding the sale/trade of bootleg DVDs and DVD-R's. In short, open discussion is not allowed. Save it for PM's. This thread can stay open, as the majority of discussion has steered towards other aspects of the Aladdin Laserdisc, and could very well continue on that course. But further discussion that calls for intentional copyright infringement will result in this thread being locked.

Albert

Escapay wrote:VHS (320x240)


Laserdisc (565x425)


DVD (720x404 - anamorphic)

Updated with a screen capture from a 4K scan of a 35mm film reel. I certainly hope it meets Marky's approval.

[removed]

Albert

Where did you find the 4K film scan?

4k? that's not even 720p.

Kyle wrote:4k? that's not even 720p.

Perhaps the image has just been downsized so it doesn't become too big for a computer screen? In any case, it looks very rich, and though darker, probably closer to the DVD and Blu-Ray than the VHS and laserdisc in terms of colour.

And for what it's worth, as watchable as the older transfers are, I personally think the digital transfers from the DVD and the UK Blu-ray really bring out the wonder and magic in the film. It doesn't feel overly bright or garish, but the colours pop out and capture the spirit of the Arabian Nights. That's just my opinion.

Hey, any idea how the picture quality on the diamond edition will look yet?

Well Its aired plenty of times in HD already, I'd imagine it'll be the same transfer, likely with tweaks like replacing the castle.

Wire Hanger wrote:Where did you find the 4K film scan?

A friend of mine acquired a 35mm film print and is getting it scanned in 4K. This was from the first "batch" so to speak.

Wonderlicious wrote:Perhaps the image has just been downsized so it doesn't become too big for a computer screen?

It's been downsized to 720x405 because the forums don't allow images beyond 900 pixels. I don't see a point in providing the full 4K image on the forum anyway. Frankly, I just wanted to compare the colors (yikes, who am I becoming?) between the different home media sources (which are all largely the same) when compared to an actual film reel.

Albert

Escapay wrote:

Wire Hanger wrote:Where did you find the 4K film scan?

A friend of mine acquired a 35mm film print and is getting it scanned in 4K. This was from the first "batch" so to speak.

Oooh, sounds really cool. Has he/she acquired any other Disney films in 35mm? Living as an isolated Disney fan in England, I don't have such connections.