DVDizzy Forum

Disney's Divinity wrote: Ariel has some beautiful scenes, too, but the budget causes some inconsistencies there.

It's true. Although I love Ariel, there're many scenes in her movie where she looks off-model.

enigmawing wrote:Design-wise, I'd have to pick Pocahontas. Just a gorgeous, noble design. I love how he explains that she's pretty much the opposite of Ariel with the eyes, cheekbones, lips, etc. I also love how her hair has a life of its own. And interestingly enough, Ariel is probably my favorite character of his overall. She has so much life and personality, even though she's mute throughout a good portion of the film. I should give Rapunzel an honorable mention even if (or perhaps because) she physically resembles Ariel so much.

What she said.

REINIER wrote:but let's not forget the great emotional range Glen has brought to this character. I can think of few characters that have as much depth as Beast.

Can you explain? It's okay if you can't or don't want to because it's hard describing emotions or depth. But I want to know why everyone thinks so highly of him in this regard.

Disney Duster wrote:

REINIER wrote:but let's not forget the great emotional range Glen has brought to this character. I can think of few characters that have as much depth as Beast.

Can you explain? It's okay if you can't or don't want to because it's hard describing emotions or depth. But I want to know why everyone thinks so highly of him in this regard.

I know this doesn't necessarily directly answer this question, but speaking of depth made me think of how I feel looking at Beast's eyes when I watch pencil tests from the film. For instance, the scene where Belle says that she didn't get to say goodbye. Go to 1:24 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUpMYPyzVq8

The way Glen literally gave him life... there's so much in the eyes for me. Unfortunately, a lot of that is lost in final film. But based on animation alone, I don't think any character bar maybe Ariel has ever had this much LIFE breathed into them. So much thought and emotion behind his eyes, it's amazing.

And more to answer your question... I think story wise Beast has a really great arc. The few scenes that show Beast after a very frightening scene... right after his animal side comes out, and he sinks into himself... "it's hopeless". You can tell he gets ashamed of what he's become or how he has acted. It really lets the audience into a very personal moment with the Beast, that none of the other characters even get to see.

I know there are a lot of people that nitpick about BatB's plot holes and all the inconsistencies and issues going on... but in end for me none of that matters, because the Beast is 150% believable. Within the first few minutes of knowing him, I care about him and want to see things work themselves out.

Overall, the huge shift from genuinely scary, intimidating animal to a caring, thoughtful, loving being really makes me feel something that not many characters make me feel. Like I said, I think a lot of that is because Glen put so much life into him through the animation. While the transformation scene in the film is jaw-dropping, watching the scene in pencil test form is pretty guaranteed to bring me to tears, because there is so much life there.

All in all, animation is the "illusion of life" and I think Beast is among the top examples of that.

That pencil scene is really great, particularly where the Beast brightens up as he gets this idea that makes him happy. That's fantastic.

All you said is really great, but I wish I could be in your shoes and really see all the films like you do to see why the Beast is considered so much better or more depthful than other animated characters. The Beast has a great story and arc but a person who learns to become as kind and good as so many other kind and good characters doesn't make me think he's more depthful it makes me think okay obviously he thought more about being kind and good but who's to say past kind and good characters aren't thinking about their good actions all the time? I know that the point is the Beast more clearly shows you he does, but it doesn't make me think he truly is more depthful, especially since I'd like to think all Disney characters are depthful just like every human being really is depthful. I suppose what people mean to say is this movie shows his depth more than other Disney movies.

I want to know what Reiner has to say.

Swillie wrote:Within the first few minutes of knowing him, I care about him and want to see things work themselves out.

You care about him starting from the opening? I don't think that has much to do with his character, unless you mean him clawing that portrait and the way he looks sinking into his paws at the table, which...I dunno if I would say we care much about him in particular there. I don't know if I do.

Disney Duster wrote:I suppose what people mean to say is this movie shows his depth more than other Disney movies.

Well, yeah... I mean all we can possibly go by is what the film shows us. And this film does a better job of showing Beast's depth of character, and the emotions and changes he goes, than, say... Mulan. Yeah, Mulan is a great character and theoretically has just as much "depth" as Beast. But do we really get to see that in the film? I would say no. I think this goes for most characters.

Disney Duster wrote:You care about him starting from the opening? I don't think that has much to do with his character, unless you mean him clawing that portrait and the way he looks sinking into his paws at the table, which...I dunno if I would say we care much about him in particular there. I don't know if I do.

Well I was talking more like after a few minutes of actually meeting him... as in the dungeon scene with Belle. But I suppose I care about him from the opening narration, yeah. Maybe that's only because I already know him, having seen the film before... but with his obvious despair shown on screen like you said along with the narration, "for who could ever learn to love a beast?" I already want him to get to the point where someone can learn to love him.

I think you look at Beast from a story/character angle more than I do. For me, a few lines on a sheet of paper can make me feel more emotion than any character arc or plot points, and that's why I care more about Beast than pretty much any other character.

SWillie! wrote:My god... what a career. I was lucky enough to meet him very very briefly last year - he's so humble for someone that is arguably the most influential animator of the last 30 years.

Agreed. He seems like a genuinly nice guy in interviews. Really down to earth.

Disney Duster wrote:

REINIER wrote:but let's not forget the great emotional range Glen has brought to this character. I can think of few characters that have as much depth as Beast.

Can you explain? It's okay if you can't or don't want to because it's hard describing emotions or depth. But I want to know why everyone thinks so highly of him in this regard.

Hi Duster! Beast to me is all about restrained anger, conflicted emotion and warm tenderness.. Not something easily combined in one character. Glen has given his beast certain mannerisms that build up to each of these emotions. There is something special to me about this huge, massive beast who is so obviously trapped in a body he himself detests,meaning that to him he is ugly outside, where in the end it is his inside that changes the most. I can't say it very more clearly then that I'm afraid

estefan wrote:Glen Keane's animation never fails to astound me. My favourites are probably Ariel, the Beast and Tarzan. All absolutely amazing, as is his other work.

I even made a video paying tribute to his work around the time Tangled opened:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xGjJISWlO3g" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Just finished the video, and pardon if I am going off topic, but you better not be dissing The Chipmunk Adventure. Is the movie an animated masterpiece? Not really. It is very silly, over the top and with a very weird storyline. Still, it has great musical sequences (like the one you highlighted) and some great moments.

Plus the movie is A MILLION TIMES BETTER than the recent live action films because it at least sticks to the essence of the Chipmunks whereas the live action movies just do whatever they want.

And with that, we return to the Glen Keane celebration...

The Chipmunk Adventure ROCKS! There was some history behind it that left some unfortunate fragments in an otherwise exciting story, yet the movie greatly improved upon the Saturday morning series, and got Andy Gaskill to work on the series after the movie was done.

I just find the Chipmunks to be incredibly annoying, with their high-pitched voices and one-dimensional personalities being the main culprit. So, while I admire Keane's animation (and I have to admit the character animation is a step above the animated series), I couldn't stand listening to their voices for 80 minutes. It was utter agony.

Thanks Reinier!

SWillie! wrote:I think you look at Beast from a story/character angle more than I do. For me, a few lines on a sheet of paper can make me feel more emotion than any character arc or plot points, and that's why I care more about Beast than pretty much any other character.

Um...what? I think characters should be judged on their characters. Not their story. Not their arc. Not their plot points. Not lines written on paper. But who they are, personality, mannerisms, actions, emotions, how they react to their story more than what the story does to them. He's a sad beast who hates himself. Yea. Anyone would be like that in that situation. But I think he has lots that make him his own character...just...more than other Disney characters? I dunno.

Disney Duster wrote:Thanks Reinier!

SWillie! wrote:I think you look at Beast from a story/character angle more than I do. For me, a few lines on a sheet of paper can make me feel more emotion than any character arc or plot points, and that's why I care more about Beast than pretty much any other character.

Um...what? I think characters should be judged on their characters. Not their story. Not their arc. Not their plot points. Not lines written on paper. But who they are, personality, mannerisms, actions, emotions, how they react to their story more than what the story does to them. He's a sad beast who hates himself. Yea. Anyone would be like that in that situation. But I think he has lots that make him his own character...just...more than other Disney characters? I dunno.

No, I wasn't saying lines written. I'm saying you see the actual character, their mannerisms, their emotions, etc.. just like you said.

Whereas for me a few lines on a piece of paper (as in Glen's pencil lines), are enough to give me greater emotion than anything the character is doing or feeling or thinking.

SWillie! wrote:Whereas for me a few lines on a piece of paper (as in Glen's pencil lines), are enough to give me greater emotion than anything the character is doing or feeling or thinking.

Oh, cool. By "anything the character is feeling or thinking" do you mean, the action they are supposed to be performing in the story i.e. what would be just the lines written on paper?

Sotiris wrote:This list includes only the characters from Disney feature-length films where Glen Keane served as a supervising/directing animator (and not just as a character animator or a character designer.)

The Bear from The Fox and the Hound

Professor Ratigan from The Great Mouse Detective

Sykes from Oliver & Company

Georgette from Oliver & Company

Fagin from Oliver & Company

Ariel from The Little Mermaid

Marahute from The Rescuers: Down Under

Beast from Beauty and the Beast

Aladdin from Aladdin

Pocahontas from Pocahontas

Tarzan from Tarzan

Long John Silver from Treasure Planet

Rapunzel from Tangled

My favourite is Pocahontas. I'm not taking into consideration the character's personality since that is also a product of the writer's and not solely of the animator's.

Pocahontas looks and moves more naturalistic, her anatomy is more realistic, her physical proportions and her movements are less caricatured. Her overall animation is subtle, detailed, and highly evocative.

My personal favorites are Ariel and the Beast.
I love Ariel's animation during the Part of your World (reprise) sequence, especially when she's singing on the rock. the hair animation is simply epic

I didn't know where else to put this, so...

Glen Keane talks about the hardest characters he had to animate.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xus02QEJon0" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Beast! Well, actually prince Adam in human form;D

Tarzan. He's my favorite. That said, there are many on that list I like!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QP8QdFttugg" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Although John Silver and Aladdin are a close second.

thats a tough question. i adore the beast, but john silver and marahute [especially the first nest scene with cody and the eggs when she puffs up] certainly rank up there, along with tarzan. i just love their designs. im actually rather surprised that he didnt animate kerchak now that im thinking about it.