DVDizzy Forum

Dr Frankenollie wrote:@PatrickvD: Why have you replied to Goliath but not me?

Sorry, I kinda felt I'd said everything I needed to say. Most of the things you added were just disagreements. Which are fine by me as you are entitled to your opinion.

I find The Rescuers melodramatic and slightly unmemorable. Even in flashback, Penny's story feels forced. She's soooo sad. I got that.

As for Dalmatians, I don't think the movie was obligated to make us connect with every single one of Pongo and Perdy's puppies. Lucky, Patch and Rolly were obviously the main protagonists of the bunch. Fifteen characters is a lot and by the time we reach the manor, there are 99 of them so it would have been impossible anyway. They're supporting characters that serve their purpose as does every other character later on in the story.

I mean, the swamp characters in The Rescuers. So desperate to be whimsical for 15 seconds. I did enjoy Evinrude (was that his name?). But that's probably because I find silent sidekicks are fun in animation because they express themselves through animation rather than burps and farts.

That's all I really have to say on the matter. Except maybe that it may come off as though I hate The Rescuers, which I don't. It boasts some good stuff. To me mainly the crocs and the diamond sequence.

I seriously need to watch both of these films again, it's been a while. Of the two, Dalmatians leaves the stronger impression on me, but to be fair it's the only one of the two I got to see in the theater and not just on home video.

Dr Frankenollie wrote:By the way, what does 'imo' mean?

In my opinion.

Dr Frankenollie wrote:What do Pongo and Perdita go up against? Some snow and two idiot thugs. What do Bernard and Bianca go up against? A deranged sociopath, bloodthirsty crocodiles, the threat of drowning, and a ship loaded with fireworks, not to mention nearly being trodden on by humans in the airport or falling off Orville whilst flying through NYC.

My point wasn't to "match" the amount of conflict Bernard and Bianca had, but to point out that there are a lot of reasons people find emotional depth to Dalmatians, which is why it's a beloved, iconic film.

The TV scene is cute, but unmemorable,

Most people I know remember it. Conversely, most non-Disney fans probably wouldn't remember The Rescuers.

and despite what you say, they don't differentiate the puppies

Honestly, despite what you might say, most people know the differences between the main puppies. They are superficial differences (the one watching the TV, the fat one, etc.), but the puppies are not the protagonists--Pongo and Perdita are. They are "the children" as much as Penny is "the orphan." There is nothing to know about them, other than they need to be rescued by the protagnoists.

The only thing I remember about McLeach was that he was voiced by George C Scott and perished via waterfall, so I think he's rather forgettable.

I wouldn't completely disagree. But I find Medusa to be equally disposable.

I do think 101 Dalmatians is a great film, and the opening is golden: from the inventive opening credits all the way to Roger and Anita's wedding, it's pure comedic brilliance. So well-done, so perfectly timed and so well drawn from real life. Truly one of Disney's best moments. I also love the scene where the puppy almost dies, and then the switch of pace with Roger standing up to Cruella. I nearly croaked laughing. And I've got to agree with Divinity about the tv watching scene, too. Actually, I don't think there's a weak scene in the movie.

I just love The Rescuers a bit more.

enigmawing wrote:I recall reading that Frank & Ollie complained that Madame Medusa was a weak villain . . . I occasionally wonder if using Cruella instead could have strengthened the film or if doing so would have somehow taken away from Dalmatians.

I also recall reading Frank and Ollien thought The Rescuers was the besy film they made without Walt.

Goliath wrote:I also recall reading Frank and Ollien thought The Rescuers was the besy film they made without Walt.

Although there isn't much competition when the only other post-Walt films they actually worked on were The Aristocats, Robin Hood and Fox and the Hound. Pooh could be included too, but some of that was made while Walt was still alive.

Goliath wrote:I also recall reading Frank and Ollien thought The Rescuers was the besy film they made without Walt.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading that too, and I'd have to agree.

Flanger-Hanger wrote:Although there isn't much competition when the only other post-Walt films they actually worked on were The Aristocats, Robin Hood and Fox and the Hound. Pooh could be included too, but some of that was made while Walt was still alive.

Of course, I'd have to agree with that as well; there were only a handful of films the nine old men worked on without Walt.

I love Bob Newhart, he's great as Bernard. I also love how Rufus is basically Ollie. It's a great and touching film overall with a lot of nice little nuances, especially between our two main heroes.

I really hate to say this though, but the visual style of The Rescuers put me off even as a little girl. As always, the animation itself is pretty top-notch, but the attempts to soften the sketchy xerographry with the grey toner, not bothering to paint in the eye whites of the mice with a separate color, and the overall palette and lack of attention to certain details makes the film visually lacking. To me it feels bland, murky, rushed, even dated. Of course this is all just my opinion; I wouldn't expect a bright, cheery palette, lol; perhaps the final production actually works in favor of the story's tone. I just feel a similar visual tone has been captured better in other animated films.

But don't mind me, I'm just a nit-picky colorist.

I recall seeing 101 Dalmatians in the theater back in the early 90's and not being too excited to go; at the time I was sort of a pre-renaissance snob more interested in in the likes of The Little Mermaid and the upcoming Beauty and the Beast. But I was taken aback at how mature the whole story felt, as well as specific moments between the very worried Pongo and Perdy. Beautiful stuff there; as much as I love animation it rarely pulls off that level of believability for me. And visually, it's much more appealing due to embracing the xerographry through the stylization rather than attempting to hide it.

The Rescuers, easy. Not because Dalmatians is that flawed. It isn't, exactly. It simply doesn't have anywhere near the emotional power of The Rescuers' music and the moments showing Penny's vulnerability are some of the most touching the studio ever produced in animation. Even if they were a bit sappy.

Dalmatians is just... kinda boring. The animation is incredible and the villain is extremely memorable. But not scary. After Sleeping Beauty, Disney had trouble coming up with another scary villain and Cruella has something great the other villains don't have but it's just not very intimidating compared to the previous villains (its' more satirically rich). I don't mean to lay heavy blame on her and the film, but yeah- she was too light to be much of an asset to the film. She's more like an asset to Disney history in spite of the film. None of the puppies have any real personality to them, Pongo becomes infinitely less interesting after the scene in the park, Perdita is only slightly interesting for maybe 1 or 2 short scenes; in fact- Roger and Anita are more satisfying characters and they end up being phased out of a very large portion of the film. Then you have the Twlight Bark sequence. That's why I continue to call the film boring. WOW are those scenes dull! I mean... why exactly is the film slicing its time devoted to its more important main characters off so we can get character development from the animals in the barn?? All said and done... the cat, the horse, and the sheepdog are nice but it slows the film down and introduces very silly ideas that don't really do anything for me.

Dr Frankenollie wrote:

PatrickvD wrote:I actually could not care less for any of the characters in The Rescuers. They were bland characters in a melodramatic plot. I don't see how Penny's kidnapping equals depth.

There's nothing bland about the characters in Rescuers

I agree with you but I know what PvD is talking about. I would call The Rescuers slow and the movie really takes its' time to get us to care about the characters. And I think it pays off very well.