DVDizzy Forum

Disney Duster wrote:Merely in your and others' opinion Dr Frankenollie. You don't know everything and you never will. But I can tell you I don't want to be much like my parents at all and yet I'm religious so you're already wrong there. Also I already pointed out how sometimes I do find use for logic. It just isn't everything.

If you're not following your parents or others, then as I said, chances are you're just ignorant or desperate to believe that there's an afterlife (you may have a serious case of Belief in Belief).

Religion can be disproved quite easily; I can do right it now, by presenting you with the great ancient philosopher Epicurus' timeless riddle:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

Edit: Please, please don't be offended by my post Christians or other religious people; I'm not mocking you, I'm just offering up evidence as to why you may be wrong. I do not mean to offend.

I like how people on this forum equate religion = Judea-Christianity and not count other religions like Buddhism which.....has no god LOL.

Can we get back on topic about how it's the people who were called not normal did amazing things that if not for them, some things in the world right now would cease to exist.?


Also let's not turn this into a religion debate thread...of any religion whatsoever...please....

Super Aurora wrote:I like how people on this forum equate religion = Judea-Christianity and not count other religions like Buddhism which.....has no god LOL.

they got a buddha, which is not a god but is something to worship.

ajmrowland wrote:

Super Aurora wrote:I like how people on this forum equate religion = Judea-Christianity and not count other religions like Buddhism which.....has no god LOL.

they got a buddha, which is not a god but is something to worship.

It's the ideals and beliefs they following not so much he as "god" himself.

but let's not talk about religion here. we can take it to pm.

Unfortunately...someone can't say something bad about religion and I just let it go. But this should end the conversation.

Dr Frankenollie, I don't think is God is unwilling to prevent evil that he is malevolent. I just don't. I mean, mothers and father sometimes let bad things happen to their kids for learning and challenges. I know you could say that's not the same, I know you could say a lot of things, and sometimes I think evil should or has to exist or that evil is even only a perception, but the point is three things: One, a perfect world without evil is called heaven and that is meant for later. Two, what you said doesn't disprove religion to me. And three, even if it did, it would be only by some percieved human logic, and religion, or at least, spiritual things, cannot all be understood or explained by logic. : )

Duster, I'm taking this to PM. This needs to get back on-topic.

But why do we have to go through so much misery before we get to ´heaven'? Why doesn't ' God' simply put us in 'heaven' right away? What, does he enjoy seeing us suffer? Is he a sadist?

Goliath wrote: What, does he enjoy seeing us suffer? Is he a sadist?

Yes. He's God. He can do whatever the fuck he wants and laugh. lol

I would like to request this thread be locked, however only for a few days to see if it can get back on topic after it's locked for a few days, though I will leave it in the hands of the mods to decide the fate of this thread.

Until this conversation gets moved, I have to reply here. I will reply to the conversation in a new thread or pms if it gets moved or removed.

Goliath, it's for letting us to what we will do in response to evil. Yes, he knows what will happen, but it still has to happen. If you don't get it or have reasons why, sorry, I get and I explained it, if you don't, oh well.

Goliath wrote:But why do we have to go through so much misery before we get to ´heaven'? Why doesn't ' God' simply put us in 'heaven' right away? What, does he enjoy seeing us suffer? Is he a sadist?

one could easily argue that he tests us, but nobody knows.

Disney Duster wrote:Goliath, it's for letting us to what we will do in response to evil. Yes, he knows what will happen, but it still has to happen. If you don't get it or have reasons why, sorry, I get and I explained it, if you don't, oh well.

Mike, you haven't replied to my PM yet.

Your argument that Goliath just doesn't get it made me laugh out loud. Are you serious? Are you serious?

ajmrowland wrote:one could easily argue that he tests us, but nobody knows.

Imagine a teacher telling her class that she was going to start a test. She promptly handed out a different test paper to everyone in the class; somebody was given a test on quantum physics, another pupil was given a test on simultaneous equations, and yet another pupil was given a test on popular culture sandwiched between simple mathematical questions like ‘Two plus two equals what?’ The teacher told one pupil that they had the entire lesson to complete the test, another that they had ten minutes, and told the rest of the class that they had half an hour.

Would anyone take the results of such a test seriously? Of course not. It has to be the same to be fair. That's a basic scientific principle.

What I’m saying is that if evil exists to test us, then why do some people become rich and famous with the worst thing happening to them being stung by a wasp at one point in their lives, and why do some people lose their jobs, their homes, their money, their families and everything else important to them? If our life on Earth is a test, then it’s not a very fair one.

Besides, if this unfair and ridiculous test theory is somehow true, then does he really favour people who merrily follow badly translated rules scribbled down on ancient desert scrolls, with wilful ignorance to people who try to decide what they think is good or evil and try to help the sick and the poor, rather than listening to a senile homophobe reading incomprehensible rubbish every Sunday? If he does, then even the promiscuous Greek God Zeus is a more preferable fictional deity than the Christian God.

Disney Duster wrote:Until this conversation gets moved, I have to reply here. I will reply to the conversation in a new thread or pms if it gets moved or removed.

Goliath, it's for letting us to what we will do in response to evil. Yes, he knows what will happen, but it still has to happen. If you don't get it or have reasons why, sorry, I get and I explained it, if you don't, oh well.

Okay...forum mods....lock this thread it please since this seems to be going so off topic I doubt even a temp lock would help.....

disneyboy20022 wrote:Okay...forum mods....lock this thread it please since this seems to be going so off topic I doubt even a temp lock would help.....

Discussion often doesn't stay on one topic, it thrives through the people involved and develops, with different people contributing all the time and arguing about different subjects and talking about their viewpoints on such subjects.

Dr Frankenollie wrote: If he does, then even the promiscuous Greek God Zeus is a more preferable fictional deity than the Christian God.

Or the Jewish God. The Jewish God is a prideful asshole just like Zeus. It was Christianity that changed God's personality completely.

You probably know that though.

Dr Frankenollie wrote:

ajmrowland wrote:one could easily argue that he tests us, but nobody knows.

Imagine a teacher telling her class that she was going to start a test. She promptly handed out a different test paper to everyone in the class; somebody was given a test on quantum physics, another pupil was given a test on simultaneous equations, and yet another pupil was given a test on popular culture sandwiched between simple mathematical questions like ‘Two plus two equals what?’ The teacher told one pupil that they had the entire lesson to complete the test, another that they had ten minutes, and told the rest of the class that they had half an hour.

Would anyone take the results of such a test seriously? Of course not. It has to be the same to be fair. That's a basic scientific principle.

What I’m saying is that if evil exists to test us, then why do some people become rich and famous with the worst thing happening to them being stung by a wasp at one point in their lives, and why do some people lose their jobs, their homes, their money, their families and everything else important to them? If our life on Earth is a test, then it’s not a very fair one.

Besides, if this unfair and ridiculous test theory is somehow true, then does he really favour people who merrily follow badly translated rules scribbled down on ancient desert scrolls, with wilful ignorance to people who try to decide what they think is good or evil and try to help the sick and the poor, rather than listening to a senile homophobe reading incomprehensible rubbish every Sunday? If he does, then even the promiscuous Greek God Zeus is a more preferable fictional deity than the Christian God.

1. not that kind of test.
2. life's not a classroom designed to over generalize it's students.
3. who said it was fair?
4. ridiculous? i barely believe it but it's not much more ridiculous than the theory of life on other planets in that it involves thinking outside the box

Normal Gets You Nowhere- Kelly Cutrone

ajmrowland wrote:1. not that kind of test.
2. life's not a classroom designed to over generalize it's students.
3. who said it was fair?
4. ridiculous? i barely believe it but it's not much more ridiculous than the theory of life on other planets in that it involves thinking outside the box

1. I was obviously using that scenario as an example to prove the point that EVERY SINGLE TEST HAS TO BE THE SAME TO BE FAIR. That is a basic scientific principle. It doesn't just apply to tests in classroms-it applies to tests with chemicals and everything else. It doesn't matter if it's a classroom exam or God's fictional test to see which people go to Heaven and which go to Hell, it has to be the same. And besides...how do YOU know what kind of 'test' 'God' does?

2. I know life's not a classroom, but as I said above, I was merely using it as a metaphor to show that EVERY SINGLE TEST HAS TO BE THE SAME TO BE FAIR.

3. IF A TEST ISN'T FAIR THE RESULTS DON'T MATTER. IF A TEST ISN'T FAIR THE RESULTS DON'T MATTER. IF A TEST ISN'T FAIR THE RESULTS DON'T MATTER. THAT IS A BASIC SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLE. If the 'test' of 'God' isn't fair, then it doesn't matter what results 'he' gets.

4. Let me be perfectly clear: it's not that I don't think God doesn't exist. There may be a 'God' of some sort, or a 'Creator'. What I'm trying to show is that there can't be the Christian God, and if there is, then he's an unfair, stupid, malevolent jerk who isn't omnipotent in the slightest.

And besides, there are kinds of evidence for extraterrestrial lifeforms. For example, there have to be distant planets similar to Earth and thus life most likely can or already has appeared on such planets. Where is the proof that there's a God? Is the proof that a lot of people believe there is? The Ancient Egyptians, Ancient Greeks and Romans all have huge influences over the world today and were some of the most progressive civilisations of all time. However, their beliefs in multiple Gods and now considerably silly theories (i.e. someone bringing the sun via chariot) have been proven to be WRONG.

But as you'll undoubtedly find contrived loopholes in my arguments and try to say something completely idiotic like 'God' not needing his tests to be fair, I'll provide some more evidence for why the Christian God at the very least is not real.


The only impressive ‘miracle’ by Jesus was the resurrection of Lazarus. His other ‘miracles’ were merely parlour tricks, especially compared to what his father did. His father (according to the Bible) flooded the Earth, destroyed cities, broke down civilisations, inspired thousands and created the entire universe and every single atom within it. What did his son do? Turned water into wine; that is such a huge, colossal fall from fictional greatness that it’s almost laughable. If Jesus was the son of God, then he should have been moving mountains, rearranging the stars, or at the very least parted a sea like Moses apparently did in the Old Testament. If you’re going to follow Jesus, you might as well follow every single illusionist and magician you come cross and hail them as the son of God.

But then there are stories of the Bible of Jesus making a man walk again, healing a leper and making a blind man see. These stories don’t inspire or enlighten me; they nearly disgust me. If those stories are true, then Jesus is the most unfair prophet of all time. If he was so concerned about the sick and the dying and the disabled, why didn’t he just get rid of all disease? Doesn’t the way that Jesus only helped the people he came across instead of everyone? If Jesus was only doing it to gather followers, then that means he was a very manipulative, selfish and self-obsessed man who did not deserve one follower.

disneyboy, could you please merely ask for the comments to be moved or deleted? It's just that this is an important thing for a lot of us.

Dr Frankenollie, well, I already talked about how we do not know what everyone goes through, perhaps the people who look rich and happy are going through some bad we don't see, or people who are rich and happy still must be tested to be good people by helping those less fortunate. Another thing is, who decides what is fair or equal anyway? People in thrid world countries have terrible physical lives, but they aren't cutting themselves listening to emo music after they yell at their families in their rich houses after a big meal they ungratefully didn't even finish all of. Who's to say what is fair?

As for Jesus, um, I think the point is that if Jesus did anything too huge, people would clearly see he's God an believe in him. But by doing only little things, sometimes, he did enough so people would make a choice, believe or not, and then eventually, crucify him or not.

And, uh, yea, you can say that God is not a higher being with higher intelligence that does things we don't understand because, well, he is. You call it a copout, I say you don't understand. Or maybe you do understand, but it's not enough for you. Well sorry, it's your choice to believe or not. Cling to logic all the time, or sometimes have faith and just believe, man. Some things are beyond our grasp, you'll never know everything, it's okay.