DVDizzy Forum

ajmrowland wrote:yeah, living in America makes it hard to follow Italian news.

You mean people who live in America can only read American websites?

If money died, would the world die with it?

Big Disney Fan wrote:If money died, would the world die with it?

No, only the world as humans know it.

So then civilization would die?

As we currently know it? Yes. It might change for the better or worse. It would depend on what the survivors could agree upon. We would have the potential to survive, prosper and create a better civilization. On the other hand... well, it could get really ugly. I'd like to think that level headed, rational people would prevail and that something better could come of it.

Another question: what would happen if capitalism were to suddenly come to an end?

Well unrestrained capitalism doesn't exist anymore.

jpanimation wrote:Well unrestrained capitalism doesn't exist anymore.

I'm talking about capitalism, period.

How would it come to an end tho? Depending on how it ends might determine what replaces it.

jpanimation wrote:Well unrestrained capitalism doesn't exist anymore.

Capitalism, as known in the Westernn world, has known hardly any restraints since the 1980's, when the disastrous and dangerous economic theories of Milton Friedman were largely put into practice in the US, UK and most other countries. (Not entirely like in Chile, which the US used as an experiment for total implementation of Friedman's policies, through the staging of a coup and dictatorship of Pinochet, and which bankrupted the country.) The collapse of the financial system in 2008 and the following worlwide economic crisis is a direct result of these wrong-headed policies of deregulation, ending government oversight and ending almost all restrictions on Wall Street.

It's true, REAL, 100% unrestrained capitalism doesn't exist anymore. There are still some very tiny checks in the system in place, but nothing comparable to the oversight, control and security and safety we had in the 1950's. To go back to pure, 100% uncontrolled capitalism would be like going back to the 1800's. To the time before president Theodore Roosevelt started the trust busting and putting regulations in place (so that we didn't have to eat poisoned or expired food anymore, which was cheaper to produce).

@ Big Disney Fan: I don't know what would happen if capitalism would cease to exist. I don't think it can stop to exist. The Soviets tried it, and it collapsed their economy and therefore, their empire (contrary to the popular American comicbook explanation that Reagan singlehandedly 'won' the Cold War). But the abrupt transition to a capitalist society also led to a small class of Russian olichargs becoming very rich very quickly, by buying up formerly nationalized companies, at the expense of the common Russians, who fell into deep poverty. The Chinese are officially a communist country, but has become in essence a capitalistic economy over the past 30 years. So I don't think it can go away, and the alternative, namely communism, isn't very appealing and doesn't work in practice.

Restraining capitalism and tame it down and putting in much more checks and regulations, and giving the government a much larger role; THAT could work. Brazil, Chile and Argentina did this over the last decade. They elected socialist leaders (who, for once, didn't get overthrown by the CIA) who moved their countries away from the neo-liberal (= right-wing!) economic consensus, cut ties to the IMF and Worldbank and implemented socialist economic policies. The results: a annually economic growth of about 8% (despite a worldwide economic crisis); tens of millions of people moving up from working class to middle class; and tens of millions of people lifted out of extreme poverty. They also paid of their billions worth of dollars debt to the IMF and became truly independent. Oh, and they spend most of the revenues from the economic boom on educating their people; getting them healthcare; and battling poverty.

But their presidents were friends with Hugo Chavez, so they must be evil...

Goliath wrote:So I don't think it [capitalism] can go away, and the alternative, namely communism, isn't very appealing and doesn't work in practice.

What about socialism? Isn't that an alternative?

Here's a better question; what happens when China is no longer communist and the citizens gain basic human rights (no more factory slaves)? Will the world be willing to cut back to necessities and loose the excess when the prices of items produced there skyrocket?

jpanimation wrote:Here's a better question; what happens when China is no longer communist and the citizens gain basic human rights (no more factory slaves)? Will the world be willing to cut back to necessities and loose the excess when the prices of items produced there skyrocket?

That's the last thing Capitalist want. despite all the ranting and raving most rightwingers and capitalist(business moguls) give in about how "evil" communist are, they really want countries like China be that way for their own gain.

Big Disney Fan wrote:

Goliath wrote:So I don't think it [capitalism] can go away, and the alternative, namely communism, isn't very appealing and doesn't work in practice.

What about socialism? Isn't that an alternative?

Well, socialism is not really an 'alternative' persé. Countries with socialist presidents/parties in power, laying out socialist policies are restraining the free market, putting in more government control and often nationalize those servives which they think belong to 'the people' (like gas, electricity, natural resources) --but they never actually cut off free enterprise. They know there has to be some degree of capitalism to keep the economy growing.

I think a lot of people have a false understanding of socialism. It's not like communism, where there (officially) is no free enterprise and no free market. Think of places like North-Korea and Cuba. Communism can only exist in dictatorships, because only when they're repressed, people would willingly give up all their own properties to the state. Socialism is a whole other ideology, which seeks to make the capitalistic system more honest, more social, more fair to the common people. That's why socialism can work very well in democratic societies, like almost all of Latin-America; and in lesser form in Spain, Portugal and Greece --whose current economic meltdowns were not caused by the incumbent socialist politicians.

I've talked multiple times about the socialist countries in Latin-America (e.g. see above) and their achievments have been incredible. While economies in the West are crumbling; businesses go bankrupt; and more and more people lose their jobs, their homes and fall into poverty, those countries have booming economies; a fast-growing middle class; and drops in poverty which have never been seen before. There's much to be left desired, like the huge corruption and the abominable prison system --but that's true of the US, too (but the Supreme Court made bribery of US politicians legal).

Brazil, Chile, Argentina and a lot of other Latin-American countries could have been much further ahead than they are now. They were on the same prosperous path in the 1950's and 1960's, but got thrown back in time for almost 3 decades by right-wing military coups and a vicious form of predator capitalism forced upon them. Now socialism is back --and the Western media are doing everything they can to blacken them.

Goliath wrote:

ajmrowland wrote:yeah, living in America makes it hard to follow Italian news.

You mean people who live in America can only read American websites?

no, it just means we don't normally care enough to do it. We got our own problems. I'm smart, but I cant juggle two countries worth of politics. One is bad enough.

ajmrowland wrote:no, it just means we don't normally care enough to do it. We got our own problems. I'm smart, but I cant juggle two countries worth of politics. One is bad enough.

How come I can juggle 10?

because I want to keep my imagination healthy if I'm ever going to get into animation. In other words, I dont want to be a pessimist.

And China may be Communist, but it's arguable that they never were Communist to begin with.

ajmrowland wrote:And China may be Communist, but it's arguable that they never were Communist to begin with.

I think the victims of Mao Zedong would disagree.

ajmrowland wrote: And China may be Communist, but it's arguable that they never were Communist to begin with.

WAT? What are you smoking?

Super Aurora wrote:

ajmrowland wrote: And China may be Communist, but it's arguable that they never were Communist to begin with.

WAT? What are you smoking?

Perhaps this...

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