DVDizzy Forum

Lion King is cool because it has Lions which are awesome animals unlike stinkin dogs. period.

Marky_198 wrote:I think the Lion King is underrated.

But, but, but...if it's underrated, how do you explain a box office gross of nearly $800 million worldwide? Or selling 13 million copies on DVD (and millions more on VHS, and even more when considering worldwide sales)? Or winning two Oscars, not to mention three Golden Globes including Best Picture? Or generating billions of dollars in merchandise sales? Or inspiring so much in the theme parks? Or having a great an impact on a whole generation as much as the likes of Star Wars, E.T., Gone With the Wind or The Graduate did for previous ones? Or being reincarnated as one of the most successful stage productions of all time? Or (and this is a big one) being one of the few Disney animations not featuring a princess, fairy or toy-like character to still get constant exposure by Disney Consumer Products? The Lion King is hardly anything to put in the underrated category.

That said, I wouldn't say that The Lion King is overrated. It's not an absolute favourite, but I can truly understand its impact and appeal (whereas with truly overrated films, from Shrek and WALL-E to Avatar and Lord of the Rings, I can't truly get why they are so beloved). The animation is lush, the music is excellent (not just the songs, but Hans Zimmer's wonderful score and how it incorporates the sounds of Africa) and the story has a timeless message that relates so well to the human world. Scar is equally one of the most delicious villains, and one of the only ones who profoundly upsets me; though it never affected me when I was younger, I can't help but start to weep at the infamous death scene. If there is any reason why it's perhaps not one of my absolute favourites, it's because I've always been keener when it comes to fantasy stories. Interestingly, The Lion King used to be one of my favourite animal-based films, and was kicked out of my Top 10 when I reappraised a few more animal films. Equally, I haven't seen the film in four and a half years, so maybe I just need to watch it again.

rodis wrote: BATB and TLK are the more mature of the bunch, but still have that kiddie appeal (unlike Pocahontas and THOND).

That's why Pixar movies are huge, imo.

Wonderlicious, what you just posted is really great, I could tell you something similar about the Lord of the Rings films LOL

Wonderlicious wrote:

Marky_198 wrote:I think the Lion King is underrated.

But, but, but...if it's underrated, how do you explain a box office gross of nearly $800 million worldwide? Or selling 13 million copies on DVD (and millions more on VHS, and even more when considering worldwide sales)? Or winning two Oscars, not to mention three Golden Globes including Best Picture? Or generating billions of dollars in merchandise sales? Or inspiring so much in the theme parks? Or having a great an impact on a whole generation as much as the likes of Star Wars, E.T., Gone With the Wind or The Graduate did for previous ones? Or being reincarnated as one of the most successful stage productions of all time? Or (and this is a big one) being one of the few Disney animations not featuring a princess, fairy or toy-like character to still get constant exposure by Disney Consumer Products? The Lion King is hardly anything to put in the underrated category.

That said, I wouldn't say that The Lion King is overrated. It's not an absolute favourite, but I can truly understand its impact and appeal (whereas with truly overrated films, from Shrek and WALL-E to Avatar and Lord of the Rings, I can't truly get why they are so beloved). The animation is lush, the music is excellent (not just the songs, but Hans Zimmer's wonderful score and how it incorporates the sounds of Africa) and the story has a timeless message that relates so well to the human world. Scar is equally one of the most delicious villains, and one of the only ones who profoundly upsets me; though it never affected me when I was younger, I can't help but start to weep at the infamous death scene. If there is any reason why it's perhaps not one of my absolute favourites, it's because I've always been keener when it comes to fantasy stories. Interestingly, The Lion King used to be one of my favourite animal-based films, and was kicked out of my Top 10 when I reappraised a few more animal films. Equally, I haven't seen the film in four and a half years, so maybe I just need to watch it again.

I agree with Wondy. However, I think Marky is talking about how despite the film being extremely successful to the eyes of the company the fans bring it down due to its immense popularity.

You see, I have this theory. Whenever something gets really popular and gains a TON of praise, love and respect it is bound to receive a backlash, eventually gaining an overrated reputation. But as time goes on, the overrated film becomes underrated as people just automatically dismiss without even seeing it or giving it proper credit.

Of course this is a stretch since even with the backlash movies will ultimate be popular if they deserve it. But there's no denying that at least in the fanbase even the most perfect movies get bashed on for no real reason.

Maybe it is, but you still didn't make this thread.

also, BTAB is more overrated.

Wonderlicious wrote: Scar is equally one of the most delicious villains, and one of the only ones who profoundly upsets me; though it never affected me when I was younger, I can't help but start to weep at the infamous death scene.

Tbh, I've never found Scar "delicious" (not like Ursula or Cruella). But you pointed out something I've always felt about the character. Scar is probably the only Disney villain I've ever really hated (and not in a, "Wow, this character sucks" sense, like with Edgar from The Aristocats). The only other villains that come close to evoking that same feeling from me are Frollo, Tremaine, and the other elephants from Dumbo. Most of Disney's films unfortunately make the villains livelier and more entertaining than anyone else in the story, to the point that you can never really hate them properly. But Scar is the rare exception, in that you almost have no sympathy for him at all (I have to admit, the "getting eaten by hyenas" did make me feel the smallest bit of sympathy though).

TLK is something that still hits around my top ten, though for some reason I don't ever really have the desire to watch it. Something about it comes across as such a total "boy's" movie, that it loses my interest at times. But it still has a lot going for it.

I think that, in a lot of ways, when something becomes so absurdly popular like with TLK, a lot of people start to dislike it. B&tB and TLK are probably the most highly held Disney films today, generally (by the public). They also seem to be two of the most maligned on this forum, at times. Coincidence?

pap64 wrote:Yes, I am comparing Lion King to Star Wars but that's how much of an impact the movie left in me and my friends.

Comparing one over-rated, not-worth-the-hype childish film to the other, doesn't help either one of them.

Though at least Lion King, in constrast to Star Wars, had an effective villain and one very memorable scene, the 'Be prepared' part.

Disney's Divinity wrote: I think that, in a lot of ways, when something becomes so absurdly popular like with TLK, a lot of people start to dislike it. B&tB and TLK are probably the most highly held Disney films today, generally (by the public). They also seem to be two of the most maligned on this forum, at times. Coincidence?

I agree with this. In many cases it's the conformity/non-conformity issue and in other cases I think either consciously or subconsciously they try to distance themselves from popular opinion to stand out more. Take this forum for instance. Many of us try subconsciously to distance ourselves from other sorts of Disney fans and try to appear as bigger, deeper or "real" fans.

Goliath wrote:

pap64 wrote:Yes, I am comparing Lion King to Star Wars but that's how much of an impact the movie left in me and my friends.

Comparing one over-rated, not-worth-the-hype childish film to the other, doesn't help either one of them.

Though at least Lion King, in constrast to Star Wars, had an effective villain and one very memorable scene, the 'Be prepared' part.

So in your opinion not even the Circle of Life opening sequence was very memorable?

I would say that scene is one of the most memorable in film history. If you randomly hold up a baby doll, stuffed animal, etc... people everywhere are going to go "Lion King!"

The_Iceflash wrote:I agree with this. In many cases it's the conformity/non-conformity issue and in other cases I think either consciously or subconsciously they try to distance themselves from popular opinion to stand out more. Take this forum for instance. Many of us try subconsciously to distance ourselves from other sorts of Disney fans and try to appear as bigger, deeper or "real" fans.

Well...I liked The Lion King a lot when I was little, but later in life, I didn't like that everyone thought it was "the best ever" over any other Disney movie, and so on this forum I would at least point out why it wasn't the best ever. With Beauty and the Beast, I liked it, but everyone thinking it was "the best ever" over any other Disney movie made me feel I had to point out why it wasn't. So for most fans it's probably not mostly about non-conformity, but people saying that their favorite movies are the best ever over all the rest of the Disney films, and are we really gonna take that?

And I agree to a point Divinity. Do you really think the BatB fans just left, that there was really that much bashing of it?

pap64 wrote:It just isn't THE best animated film. That honor goes to Ratatouille since that spoke in droves about themes of dreams and goals.

Hope you guys enjoyed my story!

I enjoyed your story until you bummed me by saying it lost it's magic for you! I mean, a part of me was like "oh great you thought it was so much better than other Disney movies" but now I wish you kept as much love as you had for it back then.

Why were you able to go to summer camp but not any Disney movies before The Lion King?

But my biggest question is why you thought Ratatouille spoke so well about dreams and goals. Actually, specifically, I would like to know exactly what you think it said about dreams and goals.

Kimba

somebody had to mention it sooner or later. stole the magic.

Goliath wrote:

pap64 wrote:Yes, I am comparing Lion King to Star Wars but that's how much of an impact the movie left in me and my friends.

Comparing one over-rated, not-worth-the-hype childish film to the other, doesn't help either one of them.

Well, what other movie can I compare it to? Like I said, I wasn't around when Star Wars came out, but I have heard many stories from my college professors from when they were kids and teenagers and it left a deep impact in them.

Lion King left an impression on me, my friends and many other kids. We quoted it, we talked about it, we drew scenes from it, we collected the toys, there were requests to take the summer camp kids to see the movie and many other things that the movie's presence fueled.

Again, I can't think of any other movie that caused such a sensation besides Star Wars. E.T.? Indiana Jones?

I'll appreciate the help, but until then I am sticking to my comparison, regardless of what anyone thinks about each film.

Disney Duster wrote:I enjoyed your story until you bummed me by saying it lost it's magic for you! I mean, a part of me was like "oh great you thought it was so much better than other Disney movies" but now I wish you kept as much love as you had for it back then.

Why were you able to go to summer camp but not any Disney movies before The Lion King?

But my biggest question is why you thought Ratatouille spoke so well about dreams and goals. Actually, specifically, I would like to know exactly what you think it said about dreams and goals.

I'm happy to elaborate for ya!

Well, I still love the movie and it's still on my list of my all time favorite movies, it's just that as a kid I held it on such a high regard (for reasons I already explained) that when I saw it again as an adult it didn't live to those expectations. Meanwhile, with Snow White, Cinderella, Alice in Wonderland, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Dumbo and the rest I gain a very strong love and appreciation for them beyond childhood movies and they still lived up.

Then Pixar came around and released movies like The Incredibles, Finding Nemo, Monsters Inc. and Ratatouille, films that spoke strongly to me and I found myself hooked on those while Lion King I was happy viewing once on DVD.

This is very hard for me to explain, but the best way to sum it up is that I overhyped it to the point where it lost some value to me.

Regarding summer camp and not watching Disney movies, the town that I live in is very small and rural, and it doesn't have a movie theater (ironically, back in my grandparents's day they HAD a movie theater. How ironic that the more rural town had a movie theater while the more modern town doesn't have one). So as a kid my parents never took me to a movie theater until I was much older, around 1993 with Dennis the Menace and Jurassic Park being my first movies. To this day, the nearest movie theater is an hour and a half drive.

Often summer camps and schools would do field trips to see movies so that was a way to see the latest film.

Finally, Ratatouille. I know not everyone likes this movie, but I have a very personal attachment to it. So here goes...

This movie came out just as my best friend was starting his independent game company and I was about to start my teaching practical. We were both extremely nervous of the future and worried if we had what it takes to make our dreams happen. So after the movie was over me and my friend kept talking about it for hours and realized that the movie spoke to use about being an achiever in a world that is often cruel to men.

First, you have the father/son relationship with Remy and Django. Django only saw him as a tester, and every time Remy spoke about being a cook in the human world, he kept reminding him that the world was a cruel place and that it would never accept him as a chef. To me and my friend this rang very loudly as we both have encountered someone who have told us to never waste our time in dreams because someone would crush them and tell us that the world is an unfair place.

Then there was the "anyone can cook" message, which affected me greatly. That was because at the time I was a dishwasher at a restaurant, and the head chef kept trying to teach me how to cook and I felt really bad for failing, almost to the point of hating myself. So the message of "anyone can cook" touched me deeply, and it doesn't just apply to cooking, but to any activity you decide to pursue. If you can do it you can be successful at it.

Finally, Anton Ego's message about how the world is often cruel to new talent also struck a nerve, considering that both me and my best friend have been bashed for being new and inexperienced, but than we shouldn't give up since eventually someone will notice and all our efforts will be worth it.

The ending confirms it. Things didn't work out EXACTLY like in most movies, but their dreams were achieved, and gained a MUCH better life than what they had before. To me, it's the ultimate dreamer's story, and why right now its my all time favorite animated film.

And yes, it was a really fun movie and I remember having an AMAZING time with my friends at the movie theaters.

Hopefully, this explains why now I hold Ratatouille on a higher pedestal than Lion King.

Goliath wrote: Comparing one over-rated, not-worth-the-hype childish film to the other, doesn't help either one of them.

Though at least Lion King, in constrast to Star Wars, had an effective villain and one very memorable scene, the 'Be prepared' part.

No. Star Wars is better cause it has Jabba the hutt. period.

SWillie! wrote:If you randomly hold up a baby doll, people everywhere are going to go "Lion King!"

No... I would go "Micheal Jackson!"

SWillie! wrote:So in your opinion not even the Circle of Life opening sequence was very memorable?

I would say that scene is one of the most memorable in film history. If you randomly hold up a baby doll, stuffed animal, etc... people everywhere are going to go "Lion King!"

Yes, that's the 'hype'-part of it. Because a film is hyped a lot and is very popular, it doesn't automatically makes it a good film. And that doesn't mean I dislike Lion King *because* it's popular. That's a theory the film's defenders have tossed around in this thread; that we dislike it to "look different". But a lot of Disney films are very popular, like Snow White and Dumbo and Aladdin, to name just three of the most beloved and most popular titles. If the theory was true, that we want to distance ourselfs from all that's popular, then why don't we slam those films? Because we consider those films to be good ones. We simply think Lion King is a weak film.

Besides being a total rip-off of 'Kimba, the white lion', it also has weak songs ('Can't wait to be king', 'Can you feel the love tonight'); empty, shallow, meaningless characters (Simba, Nala); an obligatory and non-convincing love story; childish and cheap attempts at humor (Timon & Pumbaa); and in-your-face, over-the-top, overdone drama (Mufasa in the sky --by the way, also ripped from 'Kimba'). It uses every cliché in the book.

Maybe I shouldn't have said "memorable", but simply say "good". And yes, the 'Circle of Life'-scene was good, too. Okay, so we have two good scenes in an otherwise weak film. The one thing that keeps the film from going under completely is Jeremy Irons' performance of Scar.

"In my opinion."

pap64 wrote:Again, I can't think of any other movie that caused such a sensation besides Star Wars. E.T.? Indiana Jones?

I'll appreciate the help, but until then I am sticking to my comparison, regardless of what anyone thinks about each film.

Oh, I totally understand your reasoning and I think the comparison is a very apt one. I don't think there was *that* much hype for E.T., which bored me to tears, by the way (there, I said it!). As for Indiana Jones: not too much hype there, among the general audience, I think. The first one was great, the second was good enough, the third was stupid and the last was a trainwreck.

I was just pointing out that, in my most humble opinion naturally, they're both way overrated and not worth the hype. With that difference that Lion King is still enjoyable, while Star Wars is utterly ridiculous.

I surrently have The Lion King as number five in my DACs list, so I suppose I would say that it's SLIGHTLY overrated, but not by much [not as much as I would say Beauty And The Beast for example]. The story does crib from everything from Hamlet to Bambi [which though perhaps partially a template for TLK is, I believe, a better and certainly more artistic movie], and I'm not a big fan of Elton John's songs [the Hans Zimmer score though is fabulous-o how I wish for a complete release of it!!], but it's so well put together and so sheerly entertaining that I don't think it matters too much. The Circle Of Life remains one of the best DAC openings ever [including the arrangement of the song if not the song itself!], the animation is fluid and sometimes stunning [the stampede sequence], and the film goes through so many emotions, joy, trauma, regret, carefree etc. in such a well constructed way, I never tire of watching it.

Best of the 90s films IMO.

PheR wrote:I've seen this only in Disney forums, and I think I know why. Most disney fans are Menken-Romance-Human-Princess formula fans, and of course TLK does not fit in this. But regular people (as in 'Not Disney fans') are not necessarily fans of that canon, that's why it is the most successful one, because it appealed to more people, most people wouldn't think Pocahontas is better, Disney fans do.

That's a valid statement. But I consider myself as a Disney fan. I usually love the typical formula, but I still love TLK.

jpanimation wrote:

Marky_198 wrote:It's the one film where all of the characters are completely on-model all the time.

Are you sure about that? It seems to me like all the films after Beauty and the Beast have been pretty good at keeping the characters on-model and the animators have impressed me with even the "throwaway" scenes.

Anyways, The Lion King is indeed overrated. I'm not sure why everyone who's not a Disney fan seems to lump Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King together as the best they have to offer. They're not even in my top 5 DACs.

With that said, I still enjoy it immensely. I love the characters, the music, the art, and still find the animation as something to marvel at. It's just the ending pisses me off more then any other part, with just one cliché after another (the final showdown at the end that just happens to include all the sidekicks, lightning strikes to start dramatic fire, and rain starts right after Scar's death to put out fire).

What's wrong with clichés?

SWillie! wrote:

Goliath wrote: Comparing one over-rated, not-worth-the-hype childish film to the other, doesn't help either one of them.

Though at least Lion King, in constrast to Star Wars, had an effective villain and one very memorable scene, the 'Be prepared' part.

So in your opinion not even the Circle of Life opening sequence was very memorable?

I would say that scene is one of the most memorable in film history. If you randomly hold up a baby doll, stuffed animal, etc... people everywhere are going to go "Lion King!"

Exactly.

Oh and the Lion King ripped off Kimba is a very old, overused, and run into the ground argument.

The_Iceflash wrote:Oh and the Lion Kind ripped off Kimba is a very old, overused, and run into the ground argument.

And that makes it any less true... how?

The_Iceflash wrote:I agree with this. In many cases it's the conformity/non-conformity issue and in other cases I think either consciously or subconsciously they try to distance themselves from popular opinion to stand out more. Take this forum for instance. Many of us try subconsciously to distance ourselves from other sorts of Disney fans and try to appear as bigger, deeper or "real" fans.

I dislike it because I dislike it. I liked it as a kid, but as I grew older, liked it less. This has happened with plenty of movies, as has the opposite effect of me hating a movie but growing to like it. I'm not trying to be a non-conformist, and if anything, I dislike that whenever anyone (on any forum) states their dislike of something, that the people who do like it immediately brand them as a non-conformist, as if that could be the only reason why someone would dislike something.

And any argument about what are bigger/deeper/real fans is pointless anyway. No one can define what a "true" fan is for anything, no matter how much they think they can. People have their own reasons for being a fan or non-fan of something, why should someone else say their fandom is not "right" or "true"? Ridiculous.

albert