David S. wrote:2099net wrote:
No, really, they were going downhill long before Blu-ray (although I accept you could argue that that was because HD in the form of Blu-ray or even HD-DVD was on the horizon, but I don't really accept that either.
But it hadn't gotten as bad as things are now, DVD-wise. I don't think it's a coincidence that the first Pixar film to not get a packed 2-disc DVD edition was the first to also be released on BD (Cars). Ironically, WALL-E did get a two disc, but that's my least favorite Pixar! Cars, Ratatouille and Up, which I LOVE, all got the shaft. Also, there's no way Princess and the Frog would have had the Making Of AND Art Gallery witheld from the DVD if those features were finished and ready to go for a new DAC DVD in the pre-BD days, even when they started getting cheap about the 2-disc sets. After all, those could have been included now and the release kept to one disc.
But don't forget, Cars also had "retailer exclusive" DVDs. So by the same argument, Disney's Marketing department stopped the DVD of Cars from being all it could be because they were chasing retailer exclusives. You could complain just as strongly at all the Disney DVDs which are released with extra content if you just happen to purchase them from a certain store. In a way, Blu-ray is just another retailer exclusive - I'm sure internally that's how Disney as a business sees them.
To be fair to Disney, they did perfectly well with the Sleeping Beauty and Pinocchio Platinums - I'm actually very surprised that Sleeping Beauty PE got as much content ported over as it did (on both the DVD and the Blu-ray).
Snow White was when things went to pot and I'm not really sure why. Even the Blu-ray is disappointing with noticable omissions from the PE which I'm confident could easily have been ported across in SD as "Classic DVD" features. [sigh] Notice how the Blu-ray managed to port the Dopey's Mine Cart Ride set-top game? Even with Blu-ray it seems Disney has more inclination to appeal to children than adult collectors.
Secondly, Disney's still with-holding content from Blu-ray releases now. They're rarely the all-singing, all-dancing cornucopia of extras that they could be. When they did the new Nightmare Before Christmas all they could add was a 30 second introduction? Hardly something to get everyone dropping DVD and moving to Blu-ray.
But that was what, a year or more ago? Things have gotten much worse since then as to what's being left off the DVD versions. I'll admit, if I was a BD fan, I'd feel like the releases could be more packed than they are. But that wouldn't frustrate me as much as KNOWING stuff could have fit that ALREADY exists, such as leaving things off the DVD that are on the BD and could have fit on the DVD.
Yes, but sadly that to a certain extent always will be the case. We've long suspected that they're left stuff off DVDs for future double-dips (What did happen to the Christmas Show for Peter Pan? Why have none of the LD supplements for the Latin American Package films been seen on DVD? What happened to the LD content initially promised for Hunchback of Notre Dame? Why does the US still not have an anamorphic, widescreen Honey, I Shrunk the Kids? They managed it in other regions. It's absolutely ludicrous that the biggest single market for the film doesn't have one. And of course, there's the retailer exclusives I mentioned before.) The difference now is its more blatant - so more offensive.
As for Blu-rays and DVDs, I think we have to accept that generally DVD or Blu-ray, we're unlikey to get such treats the the Atlantis: The Lost Empire or the woefully under-promoted Lilo and Stitch documentary on the 2 disc release. The market place had just changed.
In an ideal world, DVDs would have just as many video supplements as the Blu-ray releases, with Blu-ray "exclusives" being left to supplements best suited to the format (Picture in Picture, Interactive Internet tools such as Sony's MovieIQ, multi-streaming, BD-Java overlays etc). The problem is (and I'll admit this comes down to money) it no doubt costs more money to do all these, and the market place isn't big enough to support the investments at this time.
Well, the DVD market is still big enough. Despite the hype of DVD sales REVENUE going down, more UNITS were actually sold on DVD in 2009 than 2008! And inspite of all the underhanded tactics to prop up BD at DVDs expense - leaving off features, the delayed release of Snow White, misleading packaging, etc. BD sales are still hovering around the 7 to 8 percent of the market range.
Yes the markets big enough - more than. While sales may be going down, there's more people who own DVD players than ever before. I suspect though that the average price of each sale is going down though. Which may or may not result in lower profits (after all, creating/manufacturing a DVD must be dirt cheap these days - most studios give one away free digital copies. As far as I'm aware, only Disney charge extra for the privilege). But if you have documented "proof" that 80%+ of that market doesn't care for supplements beyond Disney Channel Star Pop Songs and point-and-clicky set-top games, are you going to try and keep that 20% or so happy or expect them to at some point "upgrade" to the next format where (currently) you are actively courting that audience?
Personally, I'll repeat what I said before. I truely think Disney and others would be better off getting their "all-singing, all-dancing" special editions out now while the DVD market is buoyant, and waiting 5-10 years before doing the same on Blu-ray. I personally expect most films released on Blu-ray between 2006 and 2010 to be double-dipped in the same time-frame, so I don't really see how doing so would harm future Blu-ray sales drastically for the long-term and surely striking at the maximum audience for such sales now would benefit them in the short-term?
That's what's most frustration about Disney's DVD only re-issues - they're not a step forwards for people who own the film on DVD, or an incentive for people who have dipped their toe into the Blu-ray market to consider purchasing. How can they be logical, viable alternatives to simply repressing and re-releasing the existing DVDs? I really don't understand Disney's mindset when it comes to such releases at all.
Not really. Because like I said, I wasn't interested in getting BD before Disney's tactics soured me on it, anyway. I would have been more open-minded about it, but most likely stuck with DVD just as I stuck with regular CD over SACD. As for the leaving the features off, trust me, I'll find a way to get those BD-exclusive extras in my collection, down-converted to DVD (not including Cine-Explore and things DVD can't support) without crawling to Disney and their pet new format! If Disney wants to make money from me on those features, release a quality DVD, fellas.
Well I agree. Doing so would increase DVD sales and help to innovate BD supplements. It's odd, because Universal was an avid supporter of HD-DVD, but currently they really are pushing the envelope when it comes to BD supplements - especially BD-Live. They're the only company really showing what BD-Live can do (you know my Funny People BD loads up different, up-to date previews each time I play it before showing the menu. They're even skippable too!)
Likewise, I have a copy of the Silent Hill movie released in France only by what I assume is a small publisher (Metropolitan) and it has two Picture-in-Picture streams, each of which can be set to full-screen at the touch of a menu button. How has a small, non-international publisher achieved this, and yet none of the large multi-nationals have? Why does having the PiP Work-In-Progress on The Princess and the Frog stop you from listening to the commentary? Silent Hill lets me switch in an instant between the movie, two commentary tracks, two picture-in-picture windows or a full-screen expanded picture-in-picture track with no disruption to the playback of the film at all.
I think its fair to say lazily withholding content from DVD and simply putting them on Blu-ray releases in HD is contributing to many studios not really exploring the full potential of the format. Why bother if you can entice people over with a 20 minute making of and a few web movies?
Its a shame, because the Princess and the Frog could have been an excellent BD - a full screen or PiP Work-in-Progress, perhaps multiple PiP tracks of animation in various stages of completion from design to the final finished product, etc. Instead they cynically decided to plump up the package with content which I agree 100% should have been on the DVD release. Even the WiP which should have been on a second disc. Personally I think the WiP as a Picture-in-Picture track which constantly blots out 1/6 or more of the frame is pretty pointless anyway. It would be much more logical for Disney to have encoded it as a second title on the Blu-ray, even if only is SD!
They'll even make less off of me on the DVDs I do buy, because when I do get around to getting Up and Princess on DVD, I'll buy used from a chain that carries used, and won't feel like Disney is ripping me off so much on those titles, since I'll be paying less and more importantly, Disney won't be getting my money! Also, since Disney has gotten too cheap to include chapter inserts in the discs, buying used is now a lot easier because now you just need to make sure the disc isn't scratched and don't have to worry about whether the insert is missing.
If you do that, more power to you. But I would suggest you should tell them you did it and why. Or else why would they change? They'd just see it as another sale lost to the decline in DVD sales. To their minds, that will validate their BD support strategy, not crucify it).
