DVDizzy Forum

The gargoyles could of been pulled off the way the Berlin musical did.

The one and only vote for Tarzan.

To be honest I don't really like the Gargoyle's song either. I didn't like it then and I still don't really like it. Where it was placed did feel awkward to me as well. That was really the only issue I had with the film. (That and there was always something that never felt right with the scene involving Quasimodo's mother's death.)

I think it's catchy by itself. But it's the weakest song in the movie by far. And its placement almost, almost tops "Let's Sing a Gay Little Spring Song" for awkwardness. It's not quite as jarring, but it still certainly doesn't belong where it is. It didn't have to be there at all, but if they were going to put it in the movie, they should have put it after a sweet scene between Quasi and Esmeralda, or at least some time when we're ready for "feel-good." The burning of Paris is not one of those times.

1. Hercules ~ This is easily my favorite 90s film. I love the animation, the design, the characters, the music (OMG, the music!), and the mythological source. This movie certainly plays on the Disney formula of Mermaid, Aladdin, Pocahontas, and Hunchback before it. However, it rises above that, creating a flavor all its own.
2. Mulan ~ This, again, owes a lot to the Disney formula of the 90s, but it does so well-enough that you can overlook it for the most part. Not as phenomal as Hercules, but not as bland and forgettable as Tarzan. I think the only real problem it has is that it induces Mulan--the character with a modern disposition, while all the other characters are mostly culturally relevant. It's like if we picked a modern teen and dropped her in Ancient China. It's a problem, because at points it's hard to take Mulan seriously next to everyone else. Still, the animation and design are again a highlight, and the music is mostly satisfying.
3. The Lion King ~ I think this a pretty well-done Disney film, despite it's overrated background. The only downsides would be Timon and Pumbaa (who've grown on me), plot holes, and the bland title character (he's less interesting as an adult). However, the movie's full of great moments ("Circle of Life," Simba finding Mufasa's body, Scar telling him it's his fault, Mufasa in the clouds, Simba returning after Scar's slapped Sarabi, Scar being killed by the hyenas, and the entire ending scene). And the score is amazing. I would never try to label it as Disney's greatest film, but it's definitely up there with the greats.
4. Beauty and the Beast ~ Great characters and great music combined. There is also a complexity to the Beast that was new to Disney animated films, for the most part, as well. I think the only weak points would be Gaston being a blah sort of villain, Belle being somewhat obnoxious, and the plot holes. The sidekicks also outshine the title characters quite a bit. But with Orbach, Lansbury, and Stiers all in one film, that was probably inevitable.
5. Pocahontas ~ Overall, the love story is pretty strong and the film is beautifully animated. However, the sidekicks ruin a lot of the mood (in the same way that the gargoyles do in Hunchback), a lot of scenes end up boring, and Ratcliffe is a flat character thrown in with a bunch of developed ones (with him ending up lacking in believability), though David Ogden Stiers does as good as anyone could to keep that character entertaining. "Colors of the Wind" is also extremely preachy, even though it's a message I agree with. The positives: pretty decent music (though it's the weakest of Menken's in the 90s, imo), strong female lead in Pocahontas, Judy Kuhn, Wiggins, and Grandmother Willow. The ending scene is also very dramatic, emotional and sincere.
6. Aladdin ~ I think the only real strong aspects of this film are the title character and Menken's music (which is excellent). Robin Williams is both a blessing and a curse, but I generally enjoyed Genie. However, the movie suffers heavily from the formula it retreads from Mermaid, a weak villain (though as with Stiers' Radcliffe, Jonathan Freeman does as much for Jafar as possible--he has a great maniacal laugh), and an annoying love interest.
7. The Hunchback of Notre Dame ~ I find this to easily be Disney's most overdone film. The only things worth watching it for are the music and Frollo (the only stand-out character in the whole film, though I guess it wouldn't be hard to do here). And it's rather sad to see the literary classic mutilated in order to fit the Disney formula.
8. Tarzan ~ Another casualty of the Disney formula. Collins' work is pretty good, but I find all the characters pretty boring. Even Tarzan, the most memorable character here, is relatively forgettable. Although I guess Kala is a pretty stand-out character, she's not as endearing as other Disney parents (like Mufasa or Mrs. Jumbo). The only thing I feel worth mentioning is that the animation is great, again; the opening scene, in particular, is jaw-dropping.

Overall, as I said in another thread, I feel this is my favorite Disney decade thus far. Even though a formula carried through most all of the films here, they still had a pretty wide range of ideas, settings, and designs. And all have at least some continuing entertainment.

Hard to do this, but I guess it would go like this:

1. Tarzan
2. Mulan
3. The Lion King
4. Beauty and the Beast
5. Hercules
6. Aladdin
7. Pocahontas
8. The Rescuers Down Under
9. The Hunchback of Notre Dame


I wish I could vote twice, I'd vote for Mulan as well!

I agree with the idea of the Gargoyles being there as Quasimodo would go crazy if it was just him and his crazy judge guardian up there in the bell tower. However, I think they were pulled off wrong. They weren't particularly funny and while some scenes are necessary for them (like when they're encouraging Quasi to go to the Festival), but other times they're placed poorly into some scenes. The touching scene with Quasi and Esmeralda is ruined by having the Gargoyles inserted in there with a lame joke. And "A Guy Like You" may be a nice listen on the soundtrack, but it feels nudged into the wrong spot in the film and could have easily been left on the cutting room floor.

I like The Hunchback of Notre Dame a lot and find it to be massively under-appeciated, but what stops it from being excellent in my eyes rather than simply a great film are those Gargoyles and a couple of awkward lines here and there (thanks, Phoebus, but we really don't care that your name means "Sun God").

it's more a tie between Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast on top.

3. Mulan
4. Pocahontas
5. Tarzan
6. Hercules
7. Lion King
8. Rescuers down under
9. Hunchback of Notre Dame

Disney's Divinity wrote: 7. The Hunchback of Notre Dame ~ I find this to easily be Disney's most overdone film. The only things worth watching it for are the music and Frollo (the only stand-out character in the whole film, though I guess it wouldn't be hard to do here). And it's rather sad to see the literary classic mutilated in order to fit the Disney formula.

I thought Disney fans had an understanding about that sort of thing.

Oh man, I find it hard to pick! The top one at least, I think it would be Beauty and the Beast or Hunchback of Notre Dame. Just let me think...

Disney's Divinity wrote:

7. The Hunchback of Notre Dame ~ I find this to easily be Disney's most overdone film. The only things worth watching it for are the music and Frollo (the only stand-out character in the whole film, though I guess it wouldn't be hard to do here). And it's rather sad to see the literary classic mutilated in order to fit the Disney formula.

In response, the iceflash wrote:

I thought Disney fans had an understanding about that sort of thing.

Yes, plus the fact that Disney's Divinty does not seem to have a problem with the way classical Greek mythology is mutilated in Hercules in order to fit the Disney formula!

1. The Lion King (this only very slightly edges BATB for me)
2. Beauty and the Beast
3. Aladdin (at one point in my late teens I had EVERY SINGLE WORD memorized)
4. Hercules
5. Mulan
6. Tarzan
7. The Hunchback of Notre Dame
8. Pocahontas (keep in mind, I still REALLY LOVE this movie...this was hard for me)
9. The Rescuers Down Under (never got into the Rescuers at all)

BelleGirl wrote:

Disney's Divinity wrote:

7. The Hunchback of Notre Dame ~ I find this to easily be Disney's most overdone film. The only things worth watching it for are the music and Frollo (the only stand-out character in the whole film, though I guess it wouldn't be hard to do here). And it's rather sad to see the literary classic mutilated in order to fit the Disney formula.

In response, the iceflash wrote:

I thought Disney fans had an understanding about that sort of thing.

Yes, plus the fact that Disney's Divinty does not seem to have a problem with the way classical Greek mythology is mutilated in Hercules in order to fit the Disney formula!

I think you both may be misunderstanding my use of the "Disney formula." I'm not talking about, "Oh, they made a happy ending and some cute sidekicks--tooootally unnecessary!" I'm talking about the formula that follows Pocahontas to Tarzan. Changes, like with TLM, Jungle Book, or Sword in the Stone, don't bother me, as long as they're for creating a somewhat fresh movie for Disney. Here, it comes off as if Hunchback the story is just a excuse to retread crap they did three or four movies previously that was popular. Hercules does follow the formula, but it also does enough so that I can somewhat forget the formulaic aspects of the film while watching it. I can't do that when watching Hunchback.

1. Beauty and the Beast
2. Mulan
3. Aladdin
4. The Lion King
5. The Rescuers Down Under
6. Pocahontas
7. The Hunchback of Notre Dame
8. Hercules
9. Tarzan

Although I know The Little Mermaid is technically an 80s film because it came out in 1989 I still think about it as a 90s film and if that was on the list it would be #1 by far.

The last four I really didn't like although I felt Pocahontas was slightly better than the others. I basically ordered the last three by how much I enjoyed their soundtracks. The Hunchback of Notre Dame has one of my favorite Disney soundtracks.

Disney's Divinity wrote:

BelleGirl wrote: In response, the iceflash wrote:
Yes, plus the fact that Disney's Divinty does not seem to have a problem with the way classical Greek mythology is mutilated in Hercules in order to fit the Disney formula!

I think you both may be misunderstanding my use of the "Disney formula." I'm not talking about, "Oh, they made a happy ending and some cute sidekicks--tooootally unnecessary!" I'm talking about the formula that follows Pocahontas to Tarzan. Changes, like with TLM, Jungle Book, or Sword in the Stone, don't bother me, as long as they're for creating a somewhat fresh movie for Disney. Here, it comes off as if Hunchback the story is just a excuse to retread crap they did three or four movies previously that was popular. Hercules does follow the formula, but it also does enough so that I can somewhat forget the formulaic aspects of the film while watching it. I can't do that when watching Hunchback.

I'm sorry but I think Hercules was the worst adaption they did. It was a good movie, but they tossed out the original Hercules and the Twelve Labors and made it to where it was their own Greek myth. Many of the monsters Hercules fought were from other myths. Disney added their own themes into the mix as well. The only other time where they changed everything in the movie based on a book was The Fox and the Hound. The plot was completely different and Tod and Copper were enemies throughout the story. Disney turned it into a friendship story to balance it out. The changes in the fairytales were fine because there were many different verisons in the older days.

Differences in the movie adaptions is something you have to get used to. It's traditional for movie studios to alter a few things from a novel or override it. The biggest thing I don't like about movie adaptions is that they sometimes change the characters' personalities. THOND has changes from Victor Hugo'sl story, but it still maintained the mood and atmosphere.

I basically try to see Hercules as Disney's spin on Greek mythology. It's actually better to see their fairytale and novel adaptions as Disney movies than the old story because you would be bound to be disappointed. Books give you the story, but it's up to you to see the story the way you see it. I think we can all agree that the book will always be better than the movie.

I wonder if you even read my last post, though you quoted it. I said, changing things does not bother me. Changing things for the sake of mimicing something that's popular does. Sorry.

IagoZazu wrote:I think we can all agree that the book will always be better than the movie.

I don't know if that's true. Francis Ford Coppola changed an awful lot about Mario Puzo's book when directing The Godfather, but it resulted in only the best movie of all time!

TLK all the way by far but my ranking is as follows:

The Lion King
Aladdin
Beauty and the Beast
The Rescuers Down Under
Pocahontas
Mulan
Tarzan
Hercules
The Hunchback of Notre Dame

This was the hardest decade for me to rank, because I love almost all of them!

1. I know I said before that Hunchback of Notre Dame is Disney's best film from the 1990's, but I think my number one favorite has to be Aladdin. Even though the animation is off-model here and there, I like everthing about it. Robin Williams and Gilbert Gottfried are just so hilarious in their roles, that I still crack up after having seen the film a thousand times. It also has one of the most likeable male protoganists of all Disney-films, and the music is outstanding, especially Ashmen's lyrics.

2. Has to be Hunchback of Notre Dame, even despite the gargoyles. I don't mind comedy relief, but it felt out of place at times. I understand Quasimodo needs someone to talk to, but did they really have to create three annoying, boorish sidekicks? Anyway, this film has Menken's most impressive soundtrack, the best opening of any Disney-film and the greatest villain of all time, because he's so frighteningly real. When the gargoyles aren't there, this is the most mature Disney-film.

3. Is for the sadly underrated Mulan, which is better than Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King combined. Consistent beautiful animation, a tight story, and most of all a very convincing leading lady make this film a winner. I think Mulan is the most convincing Disney heroine. The absence of a romance also made for a refreshing change in the formula. I still hold my breath during the scene in which the army gets attacked by the Huns in the mountainpass. That one has still to be matched.

4. When first saw it in the theatre, I didn't like Tarzan at all. I especially hated how bad the 2D characters were integrated with the 3D surroundings. I still feel that way about certain scenes, where the jungle looks like plastic and it feels like watching a computer game. I also don't like how they made the water CGI. But most of the times, I now adore the animation and the effects that the deep canves process generate. But most of all, I now appreciate the story and characters much more. Clayton is a very effective villain, Tarzan is (for a change) a male protoganist who doesn't always know what to do, and Jane is simply my favorite female Disney star. Mostly because of Minnie Driver's excellent voicework, which makes her character unique from all other Disney ladies, but also because her animation. I don't know what it is, but there's something in her face that I've never seen before in a Disney heroine. Phil Collin's music really carries this film and all songs are just wonderful.

5. Beauty and the Beast wasn't nearly as good as I remembered it, when I watched it last year for the first time in ten years. All those years, I had held this film in high regard based on good memories and the songs, which I continued to watch on YouTube. Now the music is excellent and the animation is good and the characters interesting, but the story disappoints. While the story should focus on Belle and the Beast, it too often departs from that to go to Maurice or Gaston. I especially felt the whole 'Gaston'-song was unneccessary filler, since we already got to know Gaston earlier in the film. Those moments took away from Belle and the Beast's screentime.

6. I like Hercules for it's incorporating of many modern ideas and things into ancient Greek mythology. Anybody could have made an adaptation that, though Disney-fied, would still be an epic mythological story. But Clements and Musker dared to do much more with it. It made the film much funnier and original. Full of good jokes and funny characters, though the story about Hercules porving himself to be a true hero was somewhat thin a premise for an entire film.

7. One of the most overrated Disney-films has to be The Lion King. It's not a bad film, but also not nearly as good as most people would have you believe. The story and even the character design is one big rip-off from 'Kimba, the white lion'. The main character, Simba, is bland and uninteresting, the sidekicks are annoying, the love-interest leaves me totally cold (as it has no use being in the story). It does score points for extraordinary animation, the great song 'Be prepared' and the phenomenal work of Jeremy Irons as Scar.

8. It's not that I think Pocahontas is a bad film at all, but it doesn't hold my interest like all the others. That's because it doesn't have the humor and the interesting supporting characters all the other films have. I think the idea behind the villain is good, but isn't executed all that well. But it makes up for that in one of Disney's best songs, 'Colors of the wind', excellent animation and the best ending of a Disney-film ever. I really admire Disney for daring to end the film they did. A brave departure from "they lived happily ever after".

9. I don't like The Rescuers Down Under at all. Not because it's not a musical or because it's different from the other 1990's films, but because it's a cold, lifeless, pathetic sequel to one of Disney's best film, The Rescuers. They basically did the same story, but with a duller villain, uninteresting new characters, annoying in-your-face romance between Bernard and Bianca, and childish jokes about Wilbur. And they forgot all the warmth and hear from the original.

Another pretty amazing era. My #1 is easy because I consider it my all time favorite DAC...BEAUTY AND THE BEAST!!!!!!

1.Aladdin.
2.Beauty and the Beast
3.The Lion King
4.Hercules
5.Mulan
6.The Rescuers Down Under
7.Hunchback of Notre Dame
8.Pocahontas
9.Tarzan (Have not seen it in its entirety)