DVDizzy Forum

Dottie wrote: So that's probably why Musical was not one of the genres.

Were they new? I thought a few were recycled.

If they ever get around to counting down the top 100 family films (frankly I'm surprised they haven't yet), I'm sure close to half the canon should be included, as well it should. By and large I agreed with this year's listing in the field, although probably a couple of others probably could have made it (I noticed clips from several features that didn't make the top 10 were shown at the beginning of the program introducing the animation catagory; I assume they constitute "honorable mention" and just missed out as such).

yukitora wrote:I personally think Sleeping Beauty's script is superior to Snow White, but no far more.
The conflict/plot mirrors Snow White but with slightly more complex ideas; hiding the princess for 16 years, sacrificing resources (magic powers) for ones good, the prince's mystery girl is the same girl he's being forced to marry (similar to dramatic irony), the blacklash of lying to someone to protect them, the sadness in aurora's arranged marriage etc.

But these issues were not resolved in the best of ways. The fairies' sacrifice is flawed as they fail to wait an extra couple of hours for the sun to set before taking the princess to the castle. Aurora is forced into an arranged marriage, and her problem is solved by the happy coincidence that the toff she must marry is the hunk she met in the forest, avoiding any controversy over the arranged marriage. Real-life issues are resolved either by happy coincidence or magic. Shortcuts are thus taken and the script doesn't 'hold' together - it's admirable to tackle issues such as arranged marriages but if these are not followed through the story falls short. 'Snow White' has scenes that would seem frivolous, namely the house-cleaning, face-washing and silly song scenes, but these scenes are all used to establish the character of Snow White - simple as she is - and her relationship with the dwarfs and animals.

I love 'Sleeping Beauty' (despite what seems to be rather harsh criticism of it) but I see it as a 'curio' rather than a great film - absolutely brilliant in some ways (Maleficent's voice and animation, music, climax) but not firing on every cylinder.

Oh Wow MagicMirror, I didn't think you liked Sleeping beauty, but you love it despite it's flaws, great!

Hey, on the topic of frivolous action, which Walt fairy tale, or if you want, any Walt film, but I might not know them, has the most frivolous action? Out of the fairy tales, I'd say Snow White! Like you said, the cleaning and the cooking and the washing and the dancing, and the going to bed scenes! However, these all involve main character Snow White, and the cleaning has to do with the plot (it's what she does to stay in the cottage). Plus, like you said it involves the major characters and without the scenes we wouldn't have as good and clear an idea of who the characters are and how they relate to each other. Cinderella comes second, in my opinion, because the mouse chasing in the beginning doesn't figure much into the plot, except later to demonstrate that Cinderella's chores are sometimes punishment for her and we get more of a feel of the relationship between her and her stepfamily, and even later to setup the cat and mouse action that does have to do with the plot. Sleeping Beauty has the least frivolous action, it all figures into the plot, it all leads to somewhere rather quickly and directly, like there's the cleaning the cottage and making things, but it doesn't take very long for it to lead to the discovery of the princess. Only with the Kings' "Skumps" is the scene unnecessary, and even then maybe the sword and shield between the kings has something to do with the Prince's sword and shield later...? I wonder about that.

And of course, frivolous may be all in opinion because certain scenes have to do with mood and just make the movie great, like I don't remember it well or if I even like it, but the creepy clock scene in Gepetto's cottage. And some scene are just entertainment and...well, that's what a movie is. Should it all have to do with plot?

And I've been wondering for a while...is your avatar the wicked queen from that 2001 film 'Snow White: The Fairest of Them All' from The Wonderful World of Disney? With Kristin Kreuk who was Superman's girlfriend in 'Smallville' as Snow White?

Magic Mirror wrote:I love 'Sleeping Beauty' (despite what seems to be rather harsh criticism of it) but I see it as a 'curio' rather than a great film - absolutely brilliant in some ways (Maleficent's voice and animation, music, climax) but not firing on every cylinder.

As with Duster, I'm shocked too to find out that you like Sleeping Beauty, considering most of the posts I saw from you were mostly about nitpicking with it.

I agree with Disney Duster in that I personally think that Snow White probably has the most frivolous action to the plot, but yet, it's also my second favorite Disney film, only to Sleeping Beauty. I think that you brought up a lot of good points about the faults of Sleeping Beauty in that some ways that magic too easily resolves everything in the plot.

But then again, I think the problem with that is that they perhaps made Maleficent herself too powerful. Without magic, it seems almost impossible for her to be defeated herself by any normal human means, in the way that Grimhilde, Lady Tremaine, or Cruella can defeated. Personally, I think that Maleficent herself is actually the most over-hyped thing about Sleeping Beauty. I think she is a very powerful villain, but she seems very distant from the action of the main characters at all times, except for capturing Phillip and the final battle. I find that Queen Grimhilde herself is the more menacing villain, mostly based on the fact that she is dangerous, but has a close relationship with Snow White, and probably knows Snow White's vulnerabilities and personality better than Maleficent does with Aurora and Phillip.

I think the things though besides the animation of what I mostly respect and love Sleeping Beauty for is that the story is a little more complex than the other fairy tale films, and that they've improved upon the character of the Disney prince. As you said, magic in the film seems to too easily solve things (but then again, as I said, without magic, Maleficent would seem impossible to defeat), and I agree that the questioning arranged marriage isn't too big in the plot in which it could be, but I think that they all help to provide an interesting and more complez plot than Snow White's.

And while Aurora herself is not all that much of a dimensional and active character, I think the fairies and Phillip help to make the film more than enough interesting and carry the story along. Without any of the fairies help and their actions, I think none of the conflict would be resolved, and their very interesting and diverse characters in their own right that they help to make up for the lack of a young heroine in the film.

Also I think what Sleeping Beauty has greatly done than the other two fairy tale films before didn't is help to make the prince a more dimensional character. I know many decry and just brush Phillip off as being bland like the first two Disney princes, but in his actions, dialogue, and little looks and expressions that Milt Kahl brilliantly animated, help to flesh out his character. We see a side of sarcastic and playful humor in his interaction with Samson, in the way that he scowls at the horse and then playfully splashes water at him for tossing him in the river. There's also a playful side to him, such as when he joins in the dance with Aurora, and also when he lifts up his father and dances around with him. I think while we never really get the feeling on the relationship between Aurora and the fairies when living as peasants, we see more interaction of Phillip's personality and character in how he talks with his father. One could get the sense that Hubert often blusters and tries to control his son, yet Phillip always manages to stick up for himself and his opinion against his father. Finally, in the battle scene too, while Phillip doesn't have any dialogue, I think the personality expressions help to bring clear his character. The look of determination he has while riding to escape and hacking through the thorns, and the look of fear of when he sees Maleficent transform, all help to flesh out his character and expressions in which dialogue I think would be distracting and detract from the emotional power of the scene. I think all of these interactions he has with the other characters, and the little expressions that adds to his personality, help to show that he's not just another boring prince character, but one with more personality and makes him interesting.

Do we know the criteria for AFI's listing or the voting process? Who votes and how?