DVDizzy Forum

PapiBear wrote:So the article has all the facts and all the motivations and all the emotions and all the politics of every single individual involved in the decision, is that what you're telling me?

Do you? What you're doing is making assumptions based on your world views about how people treat the minority black crowd. While that may very well be true (in fact, I agree with a fair bit of your statements), it comes off as completely irrelevant to the article. That's all I'm saying.

Disney-Fan wrote:That's all I'm saying.

There's no such thing, with PapiBear, as "all I'm saying." He'll twist it up and turn it around and make into something much bigger than it was to begin with. Although, you know, it'll be the same thing every time. Everyone's a racist but me. Everyone else needs to sit through my lectures. Everyone else is attacking me for my asserting myself. All the time. In over half the topics I visit. Any topic is a good excuse for a race side-discussion.

And if he replies to this, you know he won't be satisfied with a simple "you're wrong" or "you've been unfair in your judgment of me." It'll be a big, long, bloated game of clarifying his right to going on long, unrelated diatribes. And who's crying or who's delicate balances have been upset.

Am I the only one who's more than a little tired of this already?

Lazario wrote:

Disney-Fan wrote:That's all I'm saying.

There's no such thing, with PapiBear, as "all I'm saying." He'll twist it up and turn it around and make into something much bigger than it was to begin with. Although, you know, it'll be the same thing every time. Everyone's a racist but me. Everyone else needs to sit through my lectures. Everyone else is attacking me for my asserting myself. All the time. In over half the topics I visit. Any topic is a good excuse for a race side-discussion.

And if he replies to this, you know he won't be satisfied with a simple "you're wrong" or "you've been unfair in your judgment of me." It'll be a big, long, bloated game of clarifying his right to going on long, unrelated diatribes. And who's crying or who's delicate balances have been upset.

Am I the only one who's more than a little tired of this already?

Lazario, I agree with you 110%.

PapiBear should just record everything he/she says and then press play. Because it's the same garbage over and over.

If everyone just ignored PapiBear maybe then he/she would finally shut up.

MadonnasManOne wrote: I also don't subscribe to the use of the word "faggot" between gay people. I have never called another gay person that word, and I wouldn't expect them to use that word to describe me. I would find it offensive, and I would make them aware of it. I must also say that I haven't encountered other gay people using that word between each other, so, I don't know where some people are getting their information that every gay person uses the word.

Well, yes, faggot is a stronger word and much more offensive. I thought the word used was "just" Fag. Yes, they mean the same thing, but for some reason, its not as strong when shortened over here.

Words are only shocking to an extent related to their use. Fag over here is quite common in a different context, and fag as a term for being gay is used quite a lot. It's not a friendly term as such, but its not one of the more offensive words associated with homosexuality either. Remember, "Gay" itself used to be offensive slang at one point.

Anthony wrote:If everyone just ignored PapiBear maybe then he/she would finally shut up.

Please do. Prove to me that you can actually follow your own advice by ignoring what I post, both of you, forever. I'm not really interested in what either of you has to say about me. In fact, don't ever talk about me again.

If closing this thread is to be avoided, a change in tone/direction is needed. Discussing controversial issues like those posed in this thread is fine but taking them to a personal level -- especially when insults/attacks are involved -- is not. Therefore, this a reminder to everyone that posts should be kept civil and free of personal hostility.

As always, the forum guidelines are stickied at the top of the forum and anyone who is having a problem with another member should address their concerns to a moderator via email.

Thanks.

-Aaron

PapiBear wrote:ignoring what I post, both of you, forever. I'm not really interested in what either of you has to say about me.

I don't care what you're interested in. I said what I said so the whole board could see it. You wanted to define rights, you wanted everyone to know what you had to say. Now it's my turn.

PapiBear wrote:In fact, don't ever talk about me again.

Sorry, but no one has immunity here.

If this were an issue of race, why is Washington the only one being targeted? From what I remember, there's several other actors/actresses on the show who aren't white. So why are they just picking on the homophobic one?

PapiBear wrote:

Anthony wrote:If everyone just ignored PapiBear maybe then he/she would finally shut up.

Please do. Prove to me that you can actually follow your own advice by ignoring what I post, both of you, forever. I'm not really interested in what either of you has to say about me. In fact, don't ever talk about me again.

For someone who doesn't care what I say, you sure are responding to a lot of it aren't you?

Don't worry, it'll be a pleasure to ignore your racist views.

THANK GOD WASHINGTON WAS FIRED! What he said was unacceptable, and I'm glad he is going.

Anthony wrote:For someone who doesn't care what I say, you sure are responding to a lot of it aren't you?

Don't worry, it'll be a pleasure to ignore your racist views.

You sure are responding a lot also, Mr. Let's-Ignore-Him.

And it'll be a pleasure for me to ignore your conservative Islamic heterosexual views as well.

But don't even think you've silenced me.

I was very curious to see how long it would take for this to happen, and, it didn't take long. Isaiah Washington is now blaming his firing on racism. Read the entire thing, and let's discuss this. I have to say, I have lost any type of respect that I ever had for Isaiah Washington, after his latest statements.

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=267322&GT1=7703

Ex-'Grey's' Star Cites Racism for Firing
Jun 28, 6:17 PM EST
The Associated Press

LOS ANGELES -- "Grey's Anatomy" star Isaiah Washington said racism was a factor in his firing from the hit ABC series after he twice used an anti-gay slur.

Washington, who initially used the epithet during an onset clash with a co-star, told Newsweek magazine that "someone heard the booming voice of a black man and got really scared and that was the beginning of the end for me."

He tried to make amends by expressing remorse and volunteering to enter a counseling program to understand how the confrontation got out of hand, he told Newsweek.

"My mistake was believing that I would get the support from my network and all of my cast mates across the board. My mistake was believing I could correct a wrong with honesty and sincerity," he said in the interview posted online Thursday.

"My mistake was thinking black people get second chances. I was wrong on all fronts," he said.

His unwillingness to act like a submissive black at work was part of the problem, Washington said.

"Well, it didn't help me on the set that I was a black man who wasn't a mush-mouth Negro walking around with his head in his hands all the time. I didn't speak like I'd just left the plantation and that can be a problem for people sometime," he said.

"I had a person in human resources tell me after this thing played out that `some people' were afraid of me around the studio. I asked her why, because I'm a 6-foot-1, black man with dark skin and who doesn't go around saying `Yessah, massa sir' and `No sir, massa' to everyone?

"It's nuts when your presence alone can just scare people, and that made me a prime candidate to take the heat in a dysfunctional family," he said.

ABC declined comment Thursday.

In its one public statement regarding Washington, issued in January, the network said his actions were "unacceptable."

Washington, who used the slur against co-star T.R. Knight during a confrontation with Patrick Dempsey, repeated the word backstage at the Golden Globes in January in denying the first incident. A public apology to Knight and others followed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The man just doesn't get it! It's his actions, his words, and his attitude that got him fired. It doesn't matter that he is black. There are other black people on the show, as well as creator and executive producer, Shonda Rhimes. They haven't been fired. Why is that? If it's truly an issue of race, why are they still there? I'll tell you why, Mr. Washington. Because they do not go around insulting their peers, and attacking them, both physically and verbally. It has nothing to do with the color of your skin! Isaiah Washington seems to think that, because he went through the motions of "apologizing", the world should be handed to him on a silver platter.

Worse, this statement is very disturbing: "Well, it didn't help me on the set that I was a black man who wasn't a mush-mouth Negro walking around with his head in his hands all the time. I didn't speak like I'd just left the plantation and that can be a problem for people sometime." Is Isaiah Washington suggesting that Shonda Rhimes, Chandra Wilson, and James Pickens Jr. walk around, acting like this? Is every black actor, producer, director, and other creative talent working in Hollywood acting like this? They must be, otherwise, they wouldn't have a job!

I am so glad that Isaiah Washington is gone from this show! I won't even miss his character, now. He has shown his true face, and it's a very ugly one. He feels that it's okay for him to say and do the things he does, but, when action is taken, he pulls out the race card. I wonder if he feels that Don Imus should have been given a second chance?

The fact of the matter is, Isaiah Washington hasn't learned any lessons from this. I don't think he ever will.

I really thought he would've pulled the race card from the moment he was fired, I'm surprised it's taken him this long. So, once again, Isaiah misses the point. I'm glad he's gone and hope he's never able to find work again!

MadonnasManOne wrote:The man just doesn't get it! It's his actions, his words, and his attitude that got him fired. It doesn't matter that he is black. There are other black people on the show, as well as creator and executive producer, Shonda Rhimes. They haven't been fired. Why is that? If it's truly an issue of race, why are they still there? I'll tell you why, Mr. Washington. Because they do not go around insulting their peers, and attacking them, both physically and verbally. It has nothing to do with the color of your skin! Isaiah Washington seems to think that, because he went through the motions of "apologizing", the world should be handed to him on a silver platter.

Could you answer something for me, MMO? Why was Washington asked to "go through the motions of 'apologizing'" if it wasn't going to make any difference anyway? The man did everything that was asked of him, and then he was still fired anyway. So tell me - why was he asked to make so many efforts to make up for his "crime" if he was being judged guilty and summarily "executed" regardless of what he did? What difference did any of those efforts make?

I'll tell you my answer to that question: NONE. Zip. Zero. Nada. The lesson he learned was that there's no point in apologizing to anyone in Hollywood, particularly the gay mafia, because when you cross them, or even when they think you've crossed them, they're out for your blood and your head on a platter, and nothing you do will make any difference whatsoever. Once they decide you're the enemy, your days are numbered. That's the lesson he learned.

MadonnasManOne wrote:Worse, this statement is very disturbing: "Well, it didn't help me on the set that I was a black man who wasn't a mush-mouth Negro walking around with his head in his hands all the time. I didn't speak like I'd just left the plantation and that can be a problem for people sometime." Is Isaiah Washington suggesting that Shonda Rhimes, Chandra Wilson, and James Pickens Jr. walk around, acting like this? Is every black actor, producer, director, and other creative talent working in Hollywood acting like this? They must be, otherwise, they wouldn't have a job!

You're making a leap of logic, but not only that, what if that IS what he's saying? Are you claiming that he doesn't have a right to say it? Are you inferring that all Black people should think alike?

The fact is, he didn't keep quiet, he had his own mind, his own opinions, and because he didn't toe the line and kiss the holy ring, he's been cast out. There's a whole history of the vilification of Black men who speak their minds in this country. Whenever we speak our minds and don't agree with whatever the white powers-that-be decide is acceptable for us to say, think, or do, we're put down, criticized, shunned, fired, and banned. Malcolm X and MLK? Yeah, what happened to them? They rattled plenty of cages, angered plenty of people, and they were "dealt with." Those are just two of the most prominent, well-known examples. There are thousands more.

MadonnasManOne wrote:I am so glad that Isaiah Washington is gone from this show! I won't even miss his character, now. He has shown his true face, and it's a very ugly one. He feels that it's okay for him to say and do the things he does, but, when action is taken, he pulls out the race card.

Right, and there's NEVER any racism. In fact, racism just doesn't exist anymore, hasn't since the 60s, right?

Would you miss his character if the role was played by a different Black actor?

MadonnasManOne wrote: I wonder if he feels that Don Imus should have been given a second chance?

Red herring, and irrelevant to this issue. Washington didn't call anyone out of his or her name over the public airwaves.

MadonnasManOne wrote:The fact of the matter is, Isaiah Washington hasn't learned any lessons from this. I don't think he ever will.

Hmm, nice judgment of your fellow human being. And you're judging someone else because, why, you're perfect or something? As for lessons the man learned, see above.

Here we go, again. I get so tired of this, PapiBear. So, instead of taking bits and pieces of your response to me, and examining the hell out of it, just for the sake of argument, I'm just going to make a blanket statement.

Isaiah Washington was fired for his actions. ABC and the producers of Grey's Anatomy NEVER made any promises that he would keep his job, even if he took the steps that he took. I suspect that the problem continued, even though he was taking these steps. Although, I can't speak to that, as truth. It is, afterall, the decision of ABC to make. Not mine, not yours, not ours. I will say it has NOTHING to do with his race. That's just an easy way out for people to take, who can't accept that their ACTIONS are what caused the problems, not the color of their skin.

I am also so sick of you saying that this is the doing of some mythic gay mafia. Who is part of this gay mafia? What influence do they have over the decisions of ABC and the producers of Grey's Anatomy? I believe this is something you've dreamed up, to justify your continued insistence that white people and gay people are the only people responsible for racism.

You have an issue, and it is VERY apparent to me, and quite a few others on this site. You seem to go through life blaming others, and never giving a thought to the fact actions can cause adverse effects, without it having anything to do with the color of a persons skin.

Once you learn this, you might actually be able to see past your own blind racism.

This is the last thing I'm going to say to you about the issue of race. I'm not going continue arguing with someone who will never see past their own issues, and who wants to blame everyone else for something that the world has been trying to put into the past for decades.

PapiBear, it seems you have some issues you need to work out. Not every single white person on this planet is out to get every single black person.

He clearly wasnt fired because of the color of his skin, but because of his homophobic statements. And as others have said, he's now pulling out the race card as a weak defense. If he was fired for being black, then why did they hire him, or any other black person on the show, in the first place?

This isn't an issue of race, despite what you may think.

This is an issue of homophobia.

It's really that simple. I think both you, and Washington, need to stop trying to turn this into something it's not.

PapiBear wrote:Could you answer something for me, MMO? Why was Washington asked to "go through the motions of 'apologizing'" if it wasn't going to make any difference anyway? The man did everything that was asked of him, and then he was still fired anyway. So tell me - why was he asked to make so many efforts to make up for his "crime" if he was being judged guilty and summarily "executed" regardless of what he did? What difference did any of those efforts make?

I'll tell you my answer to that question: NONE. Zip. Zero. Nada. The lesson he learned was that there's no point in apologizing to anyone in Hollywood, particularly the gay mafia, because when you cross them, or even when they think you've crossed them, they're out for your blood and your head on a platter, and nothing you do will make any difference whatsoever. Once they decide you're the enemy, your days are numbered. That's the lesson he learned.

I'm actually really sorry now that I didn't make this point last night when I thought of it- but, you think this is an issue of a Gay Mafia out for blood? Because I think this is one in a series of incidents proving that people don't like haters and people with nasty things to say about minorities. Or how soon we forget the cases of Michael Richards, Mel Gibson, and Imus. Each of these people were attacked by several groups of people and made to feel major heat of public embarassment and scrutiny. Which they all probably deserved. Including Washington. And thank god for the Gay Mafia because who else is going to stand up for our rights? Barbra Streisand? She didn't start a branch of the Gay Mafia, she just joined.

I won't argue that he's not getting treated roughly because of his skin color. But how can anyone here argue the opposite either? Because of the way things look?

Okay................ (walks in slowly).
I just saw a bit of Isaiah Washington on Larry King Live, I hate him so much. It's obvious that he's just trying gain some credibility back by apologising. It made me so angry seeing him act all sorry and even daring to look like he was going to cry, it really serves him right that he was fired.
(Backs out slowly)
-James

I don't hate Isaiah Washington. I pity him. Like I pity all of us for being a part of this world with so many problems in it. A system that bites all the hands that keep it well-oiled and functioning. A system of attack-er and attack-ee. Sort of like Minority Leap-Frog. One gets to hop up over another one who has to now spend some time being oppressed. How much time is still uncertain.

I think racism today is very subtle in most peoples' eyes. Of course it's still a problem. But you want to know something that would make the situation better? If black people would stop attacking other minorities! Especially the Gay community. If I had a dime for every black person who has argued over what constitutes Minority-Status simply for the opportunity to slam gays yet again, I would be a very rich man. And that comes off looking like the black people wanting to be where the white people were, in charge of hating a smaller group. Able to say "deal with it" just because they've grown in greater favor with the whites.

Everyone feels the pressures of White Guilt, that is still very powerful today. Even the white gays obviously are sensitive to it. But the important thing here is to not support superior classes and groups. Black people as a group still need to be more sensitive to the Gay community, remembering of course how many black gays and lesbians there are in it.

I think I have an answer for Papibear as to why Isaiah Washington had to go through the motions of apologising. He said something mean, when you say something mean you apologize even if you don't want to it's still the right thing to do. I agree with MM1, he was fired because of his actions not his race.