DVDizzy Forum

Loomis wrote:

2099net wrote:So while I agree we do seem to be living in a more violent society, I don't think the shift is as great as some people think.

Well, we aren't throwing Christians to the lions anymore for entertainment!

Maybe trowing them criminals would be fun

Loomis wrote:

2099net wrote:So while I agree we do seem to be living in a more violent society, I don't think the shift is as great as some people think.

Well, we aren't throwing Christians to the lions anymore for entertainment!

Yeah at least we're not doing that anymore. Maybe in the next century we don't have to worry about disease, war or poverty anymore... like in Star Trek. We wouldn't have any money any more because lets face it money does corrupt so by simply taking money out of the equation... But the truth is we need to have some kind of economy and some kind of currency unless the will to work is to just better ourselves.

So the point is society has changed, it is changing and it will be changed in the future.

Apparently, I was a little late to this one.

Alan wrote:I've lived in my town for like 10 years and haven't heard of any rape case in the town.

Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Same to the people living in the big-city. I mean really, when you believe things like what you're saying, that's when you realize how naive you were to think that. When/if such a thing is not reported, it seems like it might not be happening. But there is always a chance it could be.

Zoltack wrote:I mean it's common sense that you don't let your 7-year-old watch a rated R movie or a rated M video game. But the sad truth is people do let their children watch and play these kinds of games and movies. I mean I'm not saying that it's the media's fault the games and the movies are just fine it's just that it's not appropriate for small children to be exposed to violence at such a young age.

I was absolutely saturated with violent & sexual horror and action movies as a child, and I can safely say that doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. I mean it, I used to live off of HBO & Cinemax when I was like only 11. Before I even knew I was gay. And I watched everything - Bruce Willis and Arnold Schwartznegger gunning down 50-60 people with one shot and slamming guys' heads into walls, dozens upon dozens of naked faceless women stripping / dancing for hours, and the very highest highs and lowest lows of the horror genre: graphic decapitations, hooks ripping through pounds of flesh, machetes and axes chopping entire ligaments to the floor. And my favorite video games? Mortal Kombat, baby - the gorier the better. My favorite fatality moves were always the ones with the most gore. Especially when Scorpion, Kung Lao, or Sub-Zero would rip/slice something off and leave a huge chunk of squishy internal organs hanging out (MK2).

And after all this, I can tell you straight up, my feelings about people come from many years of watching people, listening to what they say, and judging them fairly. It's not what you watch or even do (half the time) that is responsible for how one person treats another. It's what people show you and how they treat you. Especially people close to you, who one assumes as a role model. Believe me, more than 95 percent of people separate what they see of people (on TV and such) from what they actually experience of people. I imagine 50 or more percent of what's responsible for this young person comitting this crime had to do with his upbringing. And society's values of men as superior to women (which I've been saying for the longest time is part of all these problems).

2099net wrote:Everyone says we should go back to 'Victorian Values' ...

Oh yeah, they are. But more than anything, these people felt this way before crime started getting this out of control. Because more than anything, we were a nation making real strides for progressive values. And that scares the people who can't understand the need this nation has for them. Crime moves with the times, really. The more we try to move backwards, crime changes in the sense that it gets less complicated and more common. We have more crime because it's much more simple and basic. For instance - sure we have computer viruses and what became spyware/adware when Clinton was President. But when did it become a national epidemic, which it surely is now? Bush, 'nuff said.

Isidour wrote:I mean, the Tv and the long time on internet certanly are guilty of the behavior of kids today

Not exactly. And it's not a matter of kids today or yesterday. Kids are the same now as they've always been. They're just torn between a society where some people (Republicans much) want them to live their way. And the majority of people in society who want the freedom to live without their lives being compromised.

2099net wrote:The same is true to a lesser extent in pre and post WWII era ... backstreet abortions were surprisingly common. The news liked to make people think everywhere was a 50's sit-com like environment, and often even crimes reported to the police would generate little coverage.

We also have a stronger news media, which has discovered fear and sensation sells, which also explains more coverage.

While drugs are a big problem these days, the associated gangs and killings are not that different to the prohibition era - its just that everyone has a 'romantisiced' idea of that time in history.

Now that calls for a real AMEN!

Isidour wrote:

Loomis wrote:Well, we aren't throwing Christians to the lions anymore for entertainment!

Maybe throwing them criminals would be fun

These days, Christians and criminals aren't all that different... They just commit crimes on different levels.

Lazario wrote: For instance - sure we have computer viruses and what became spyware/adware when Clinton was President. But when did it become a national epidemic, which it surely is now? Bush, 'nuff said.

Personally, I wouldn't say that Bushy Boy is really the one to blame. I'm not supporting either side of the political spectrum, but I think that there's a sense of computers and the internet becoming more and more common that is causing the pain. No matter who was the king, it could have happened.

Anyway, I think that Netty pretty much hit the mark here, as the News these days can become entertainment, especially with things like Crime Watch, which turns crimes into prime time viewing. And as for footage influencing crime, I don't know. I am sure that as long as you're sensible, you won't copy TV violence.

Wonderlicious wrote:Personally, I wouldn't say that Bushy Boy is really the one to blame. I'm not supporting either side of the political spectrum, but I think that there's a sense of computers and the internet becoming more and more common that is causing the pain. No matter who was the king, it could have happened.

Actually, I half-agree. You're right about the commonality of computer technology. Though I do feel there is a connection, however slight. Of course, he's not personally responsible. There are many stages in a corruption like this. But just look at how his side has benefitted from machine tampering!

well, it doesn`t matter if they`re christians,catholic, budist, mormons, islamist or whatever you like, if they kill, rape, steal or commit another crime, let`s make them lion snack

I didn`t know you liked Mortal Kombat, and I agree with you: The gorier the better!
the important thing now is to differ between the game and reality n_n

Wonderlicious wrote:

Lazario wrote: For instance - sure we have computer viruses and what became spyware/adware when Clinton was President. But when did it become a national epidemic, which it surely is now? Bush, 'nuff said.

Personally, I wouldn't say that Bushy Boy is really the one to blame. I'm not supporting either side of the political spectrum, but I think that there's a sense of computers and the internet becoming more and more common that is causing the pain. No matter who was the king, it could have happened.

Anyway, I think that Netty pretty much hit the mark here, as the News these days can become entertainment, especially with things like Crime Watch, which turns crimes into prime time viewing. And as for footage influencing crime, I don't know. I am sure that as long as you're sensible, you won't copy TV violence.

Internet crimes have gone up, not because of Bush, but because the Internet is a lot more wide spread than it was 5 or 10 years ago. A lot of the viruses don't even come from the USA they come from other countries.
As for other crimes. I think alot of them have to do with Drugs. In the town I live in, there is a Meth problem, And alot of the crime is people trying to get money to buy it. And some of the murder is brcause of bad deals. Another problem is Gang crime. I think one thing that would help is if they put tighter control on the borders. Most of our crime in this town is commited by illegals.

Isidour wrote:well, it doesn`t matter if they`re christians,catholic, budist, mormons, islamist or whatever you like, if they kill, rape, steal or commit another crime, let`s make them lion snack

I didn`t know you liked Mortal Kombat, and I agree with you: The gorier the better!
the important thing now is to differ between the game and reality n_n

Fyi, Catholics and Mormons are Christians.

Lazario wrote: I was absolutely saturated with violent & sexual horror and action movies as a child, and I can safely say that doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. I mean it, I used to live off of HBO & Cinemax when I was like only 11. Before I even knew I was gay. And I watched everything - Bruce Willis and Arnold Schwartznegger gunning down 50-60 people with one shot and slamming guys' heads into walls, dozens upon dozens of naked faceless women stripping / dancing for hours, and the very highest highs and lowest lows of the horror genre: graphic decapitations, hooks ripping through pounds of flesh, machetes and axes chopping entire ligaments to the floor. And my favorite video games? Mortal Kombat, baby - the gorier the better. My favorite fatality moves were always the ones with the most gore. Especially when Scorpion, Kung Lao, or Sub-Zero would rip/slice something off and leave a huge chunk of squishy internal organs hanging out (MK2).

And after all this, I can tell you straight up, my feelings about people come from many years of watching people, listening to what they say, and judging them fairly. It's not what you watch or even do (half the time) that is responsible for how one person treats another. It's what people show you and how they treat you. Especially people close to you, who one assumes as a role model. Believe me, more than 95 percent of people separate what they see of people (on TV and such) from what they actually experience of people. I imagine 50 or more percent of what's responsible for this young person comitting this crime had to do with his upbringing. And society's values of men as superior to women (which I've been saying for the longest time is part of all these problems).

So your saying every kid should watch R rated horror movies and play M rated video games? Well even though you may have turned out "alright" by growing up like that, I doubt everyone would. I think the parents should decide what their kids wach. If they trust their kids enough, let them watch and play whatever they want, if they don't, then don't let them watch those movies.

It should be as simple as that, too bad it isn't.

Lazario wrote:

Wonderlicious wrote:Personally, I wouldn't say that Bushy Boy is really the one to blame. I'm not supporting either side of the political spectrum, but I think that there's a sense of computers and the internet becoming more and more common that is causing the pain. No matter who was the king, it could have happened.

Actually, I half-agree. You're right about the commonality of computer technology. Though I do feel there is a connection, however slight. Of course, he's not personally responsible. There are many stages in a corruption like this. But just look at how his side has benefitted from machine tampering!

Actually Wonderlicious, Lazario is right! You see in truth, Bush got so mad with Al Gore for "inventing" the internet before he did, he decided to let his administration hack the internet to try and make people vote for him. Bush's isa reely is teh EVAL!

Lazario wrote: These days, Christians and criminals aren't all that different... They just commit crimes on different levels.

Actually I think you can switch Christians with the term "human beings", because if you look at it, everyone on this planet has done something worng which can be considered "a crime on different levels", unless you consider yourself "God-like" Lazario?

Well Laz, not only do parents let their child watch violent movies but the main reason why their child is violent is because the parents encourage their child to be violent. I mean I agree with you, I use to watch all of these violent movies and video games and even though I was picked on a lot at school I had no thought of hurting anyone.

Like I said it's not the media's fault, it's the parents fault that their child is aggressive. But you know you have to have common sense, I mean you wouldn't let your 5-year-old child watch Saving Private Ryan would you?

well, that`s Laz...we should be used to

Let`s just raise our childs(when we have them, of course) with a mentality of selfrespect and respect to the others, to explain them that the violence in videogames and movies is one thing and the one in the real world is another.

Well I got the idea that Laz's point was that despite his exposure to that type of stuff (HBO Cinemax at a young age) he came out ok which indicated to me that he knows the diff. between right and wrong, thanks to good parenting.

but I have to agree, not all kids have good capable parents and who's to say the kid won't turn into the next Columbine kid? Remember in that Columbine case, the kids came from a good home; parents seemed to be good parents - one was involved with PTA (I dont pretend to be an expert on this case - but I am using it as an example where we have seen cases of shocking teen murderers coming from seemingly affluent or good homes....) not all crime is from "the hood".

I think in the end, it has to do with parenting. I do alot of appraisals in "the hood" and let me tell you about the disfunctionalism I see out there.... I get depressed from being in those neighborhoods for very long. I have to go to another one tomorrow - oh joy!

Timon/Pumba fan wrote:So your saying every kid should watch R rated horror movies and play M rated video games? Well even though you may have turned out "alright" by growing up like that, I doubt everyone would. I think the parents should decide what their kids wach. If they trust their kids enough, let them watch and play whatever they want, if they don't, then don't let them watch those movies. It should be as simple as that, too bad it isn't.

Excuse me, but I don't see where you're saying the complication arises... Of course growing up is hard, and some people develop violent tendancies. But when it comes to violence on television/movies/games, it simply doesn't influence people to commit violence unless they are already violent. That's as simple as it needs to be, and it is that simple. Still see a complication?? Somewhere, anywhere; if so, where? And I did turn out alright, for your information. No question about that, so cut the bull.

Timon/Pumba fan wrote:Bush's isa reely is teh EVAL!

Finally, you see to reason.

Timon/Pumba fan wrote:Actually I think you can switch Christians with the term "human beings", because if you look at it, everyone on this planet has done something worng which can be considered "a crime on different levels", unless you consider yourself "God-like" Lazario?

First of all, it is a crime to insist people's freedoms should be taken away from them for any reason. It's a complete travesty when it happens, and then we just let it happen in America, without a fight. But we do and then some of us call it being a good "Christian" / others call it being a good "patriotic citizen." Maybe these aren't along the lines of the crimes you were thinking of. However, crimes were certainly commited so these camps could set up shop the way they have. You, as a supporter of Bush, may think it wrong to criticize the government. But that's another freedom we all have that our very fellow citizens want to see us have taken away. Maybe that's what all those liberals mean when they start saying America is turning into Nazi Germany... Just a hunch.

When it comes to Christians, the only good ones are practicing their religion quietly in private. I'm glad you don't consider it a crime that many of them carried signs that read "Thank God for 9/11 - Don't Pray for USA." Many Christians are under the assumption that 9/11 was God's work. And their supporters, some of them skinheads - are agreeing with them. Including the highly exposed and somehow respected reverend Jerry Falwell, who also said that the deaths and devastation caused to New Orleans by the hurricanes and flooding, was God's way of cleaning the city of immoral people. Again- you don't see this as a crime? Keep living in your little bubble of idealism. Soon it will turn to stone and come crashing down upon you.

well, you are judging the whole by the behavior of a few, isnt that what you have criticiced of them?

Ignorants and fanatics are those who say that the 9/11 was a God`s punishment or something like it, because the only fault of him was giving us the free will, and even that is a gift because the ones who were behind that atrocity could have choosed to don`t do it, to steal the planes and crash them with only them and without any collateral damage.

If they can forgive and accept, you accept them and forgive them Laz, give them the right example without being one of them.the fear take them to anger, and the anger to hate so break the link, be the difference and don`t hate but forgive.

Yes, it sounds like those cheap stuff, but that cheap stuff is worth of being followed

Lazario wrote:
When it comes to Christians, the only good ones are practicing their religion quietly in private. I'm glad you don't consider it a crime that many of them carried signs that read "Thank God for 9/11 - Don't Pray for USA." Many Christians are under the assumption that 9/11 was God's work. And their supporters, some of them skinheads - are agreeing with them. Including the highly exposed and somehow respected reverend Jerry Falwell, who also said that the deaths and devastation caused to New Orleans by the hurricanes and flooding, was God's way of cleaning the city of immoral people. Again- you don't see this as a crime? Keep living in your little bubble of idealism. Soon it will turn to stone and come crashing down upon you.

Lazario, you must be livingi s a bubble of idealism. I really have not seen hardly any Christians saying that the September 11th, 2001 a work of God. I've seen it as a work of the devil. The same would go to all the hurricanes. Just becasue some radical Christians say things, dosn't mean you can make it a stereotype. I'm suprised, because a person like you, who dosn't like stereotypes, ironically makes stereotypes upon different groups of people.

Why should Christians have to practice their belief in private. There is something called freedom of speech, and I will practice my belief in the workplace, at home, at school, and in the public. If anyone has a problem with that they will have to deal with it, because it is my freedom, my right. Since the United States was set up as a religious nation. If the aethists have a problem with the Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc, they will have to deal with it. It is called freedom of religion.

castleinthesky wrote:Why should Christians have to practice their belief in private. There is something called freedom of speech, and I will practice my belief in the workplace, at home, at school, and in the public. If anyone has a problem with that they will have to deal with it, because it is my freedom, my right. Since the United States was set up as a religious nation. If the aethists have a problem with the Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc, they will have to deal with it. It is called freedom of religion.

Well, you seem to be under the impression that you are the only person with a right. There is something called the separation of church and state. Now since the state regulates school, the workplace, and generally - in public, you have no more right to practice your religion in public, than other people have to spit in your face for doing so. That's why this is America. Like or it not.

Lazario wrote:

castleinthesky wrote:Why should Christians have to practice their belief in private. There is something called freedom of speech, and I will practice my belief in the workplace, at home, at school, and in the public. If anyone has a problem with that they will have to deal with it, because it is my freedom, my right. Since the United States was set up as a religious nation. If the aethists have a problem with the Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc, they will have to deal with it. It is called freedom of religion.

Well, you seem to be under the impression that you are the only person with a right. There is something called the separation of church and state. Now since the state regulates school, the workplace, and generally - in public, you have no more right to practice your religion in public, than other people have to spit in your face for doing so. That's why this is America. Like or it not.

America was set up as a religious country, first of all. Secondly, there will never be separation of church and state until the death penalty is abolished. Next, just because the aethists want separation of church and state, dosn't mean all the other beliefs do. For some reason, aethists find themselves as the only people with rights.

castleinthesky wrote:America was set up as a religious country, first of all. Secondly, there will never be separation of church and state until the death penalty is abolished. Next, just because the aethists want separation of church and state, dosn't mean all the other beliefs do. For some reason, aethists find themselves as the only people with rights.

America was set-up as a FREE country. That's why they say FREEDOM for all, not freedom for those who agree with Christians. One of the reasons it was established had to do with Britain's control of the people who moved here. And give it a rest with your attack on atheists. If these were witch-burning times, atheism and paganism would be the only things that protected people from being killed because of conjecture and religious beliefs. America is becoming too religious when it SHOULD be something practiced only in the home. Separation of church and state is ESSENTIAL to keeping this country free. Free from our decisions being made for us based on INTERPRETATIONS of the bible made by religious zealots who don't understand anything. Take the new Pope freaking out about Harry Potter as just one more indication of how popular religion would control our lives if it had it's way. Right now, atheists have a better track record when it comes to human relations. They don't condemn people, threaten violence in the name of their beliefs, nor do they expect anyone to conform to their standards of living. They're just another group of people fighting for integrity.

There is some seperation of Church and State, There have been alot of lawsuits about religious suits in the schools(Including the Pledge) where we are seeing less and less of this going on. Some schools dont even allow Christmas stuff to be hung anymore. We also had a young girl that was kidnapped, rapped and murdered up at Lake Tahoe 3 or 4 years ago and they found the body off of the road on the side of the mountain coming down to Carson City. There was a Cross that was put up with a cement base where they found her body and it was always filled with toys. Somebody decided they did not like the cross so they had a lawsuit against the State of Nevada and Governer Guinn (our gov) made the Dept of Transportation take it down.

Lazario wrote:find themselves as the only people with rights.

America was set-up as a FREE country. That's why they say FREEDOM for all, not freedom for those who agree with Christians. One of the reasons it was established had to do with Britain's control of the people who moved here. And give it a rest with your attack on atheists. If these were witch-burning times, atheism and paganism would be the only things that protected people from being killed because of conjecture and religious beliefs. America is becoming too religious when it SHOULD be something practiced only in the home. Separation of church and state is ESSENTIAL to keeping this country free. Free from our decisions being made for us based on INTERPRETATIONS of the bible made by religious zealots who don't understand anything. Take the new Pope freaking out about Harry Potter as just one more indication of how popular religion would control our lives if it had it's way. Right now, atheists have a better track record when it comes to human relations. They don't condemn people, threaten violence in the name of their beliefs, nor do they expect anyone to conform to their standards of living. They're just another group of people fighting for integrity.[/quote]

America was set up as a free country. And the Puritans and Pilgrims that moved to America came to practice their beliefs. Thus religion can be practiced in public.

I agree with you however that the Pope went a little crazy upon the Harry Potter issue. But that is the belief of the Catholic Church, and he can say whatever he says about it. Being Catholic myself, he dosn't influence me upon what he says, because I still love Harry Potter as much as possible.

But the thing is, is that you cannot say taht religion can only be celebrated and practiced in private. If that was to happen, then the United States would be a dictatorship.

And the last part about aethists, is another stereotype you have. Some condemn people, some commit violence based upon their beliefs. Some also want people to conform to their standard of living. Some want Christians and other religious groups to stop practicing in public, thus conforming to their standard of living, and also other issues, such as abortion, etc, which I do not want to really include in this discussion.