DVDizzy Forum

2099net wrote:Oh, and if HD-TV and/or DVD sales don't take off as much as some people suspect (and the almost complete failure of HD-VHS indicates it could be) then expect the disc prices to creep up to LD prices (I already expect the studios will try to charge more for a HD-DVD than a normal DVD).

I think that's a given. VHS was more expensive then it ever was when it first hit the market, and I remember seeing DVDs like Godzilla (some of the first big releases) go for $55.00

I fully expect HD-DVD to sell for at least $40 when it first hits the market.

2099net wrote:Oh, and if HD-TV and/or DVD sales don't take off as much as some people suspect (and the almost complete failure of HD-VHS indicates it could be) then expect the disc prices to creep up to LD prices (I already expect the studios will try to charge more for a HD-DVD than a normal DVD).

Yeah, but I was looking at LD's yesterday on ebay, just out of curiosity and they were going for surprisingly low, and that includes the box sets!!! So it's possible even if these were intially sold for higher prices they'd eventually drop... But then again who knows, I guess we'll see.

See, I'm thinking that the only niche they can rely on, however small, is the collectors to get the hd-dvd format off the ground. If Disney rereleased its films in hd with no carrots added to them - if they were basically the same as the regular dvds that came shortly before them - then I don't see how it would work. You wouldn't hook collectors or average joes on the format at all. There would be no point to buying hd - unless you're a real resolution freak.

The only other alternative I see is that there's a very forceful hd push by the whole industry right now, and Disney can't help but keep up. Thing is, have any other studios showed similar behavior of rushing out big catalogue titles, or even had an announcement like Disney's? Is Disney just being the most outspoken about hd's arrival? It would seem awfully silly to me to have a whole industry push something as risky as hd into the public that hard. I would have expected this behavior with the jump to dvd, but hey. Maybe they're thinking that their confidence in hd will make up for their lack of such in dvd before.

I dunno, ultimately. I'm still of the belief that if Disney's pushing to get all the normal dvds out by 2007, then they're obviously behind this hd idea, and have something up their sleeves. We'll have to wait and see, I guess. I'm glad my little "theory" has sparked much debate on this forum, though.

Paka wrote:See, I'm thinking that the only niche they can rely on, however small, is the collectors to get the hd-dvd format off the ground. If Disney rereleased its films in hd with no carrots added to them - if they were basically the same as the regular dvds that came shortly before them - then I don't see how it would work.

As has been pointed out, this didn't work with Disney's initial DVD 'Limited Editions' (that ended up being so 'limited' that they had to give them away for free with Snow White, or repackage as Gold Collection discs).

Paka wrote:The only other alternative I see is that there's a very forceful hd push by the whole industry right now, and Disney can't help but keep up. Thing is, have any other studios showed similar behavior of rushing out big catalogue titles, or even had an announcement like Disney's? Is Disney just being the most outspoken about hd's arrival? It would seem awfully silly to me to have a whole industry push something as risky as hd into the public that hard. I would have expected this behavior with the jump to dvd, but hey. Maybe they're thinking that their confidence in hd will make up for their lack of such in dvd before.

Disney animated films though, should be some of the last films to be pushed for HD-DVD - mainly for the reasons I've given - most kiddie's bedroom set-ups will be hand-me-down televisions and dvd players when the family does 'upgrade' the large television and DVD player in the living room. The biggest selling titles for early adopters are likely to be wham-bam action titles like Spider-man and the Terminator films. Logically, I think their statement about being prepeared for HD-DVD is totally false.

Paka wrote:I dunno, ultimately. I'm still of the belief that if Disney's pushing to get all the normal dvds out by 2007, then they're obviously behind this hd idea, and have something up their sleeves. We'll have to wait and see, I guess. I'm glad my little "theory" has sparked much debate on this forum, though.

Disney will still be producing DVDs well into the next decade. They'll probably be still releasing VHS releases too (but more selectively). They're still releasing VHS titles now, 5 or so years after DVD's introduction.

Really, no studio, Disney included would choose to release HD-DVD so soon - not while the plain DVD userbase is still substantially growing. They would wait for a downturn first. But the change is being forced upon them by the broadcasters.

Really I see the Platinum release schedule change being motivated by money and nothing more. And faster releases may mean we get lower quality discs, but I doubt that they are purposely witholding anything back. After all, the Work-In-Progress Beauty and the Beast would be an ideal feature to drop if this was their intention.

indianajdp wrote:

MickeyMouseboy wrote:i don't think a average joe will upgrade, that said We can expect real Collector's Edition without the fluff and stupid kiddie shit!

Now see, I agree with this 100%.

It will be a format strictly for the hardcore collector's and home theatre enthusiats because of the costs involved in upgrading everything. That being the case do we all really expect that Disney wil invest millions in revamping and rereleasing all of these titles as souped up deluxe SEs for a much smaller potential market?

If disney release awesome Laserdisc sets and back then not many people had laserdisc or were into upgrading but still Disney spend lots of $$$ to make expensive sets. why would they stop at HD-DVD? seeing that people actually want collector's ed.

about early 99 DVDs i think Disney was playing cautious since Laserdisc was not such a big hit people didnt upgrade that's what i think. it makes sense.

Plus, the really big nice laserdisc box sets could cost anywhere from $100 to $150. So, for that much money, we expected to get nice sets geared toward collectors. For $20 now you can get a 2 disc special edition DVD. Now most of the time the extras aren't as extensive as they were in those big laserdisc sets, but for $20 I guess you can't really complain too much.

i rather pay $100 for a well made disney box set than $20 for a fluff filled release

MickeyMouseboy wrote:If disney release awesome Laserdisc sets and back then not many people had laserdisc or were into upgrading but still Disney spend lots of $$$ to make expensive sets. why would they stop at HD-DVD? seeing that people actually want collector's ed.

Ahh, but the $24,000 question is, was this a successful venture for Walt Disney Studios? I don't know the answer, but I'd be willing to bet it wasn't, which makes their foray into HD-DVD all the more suspect.

Personally I think they will wait until the next radical change in technology.
What I mean by that is, we went from tapes to discs. In ten years we may be going from discs to mini-discs, or even digital chips of some sort (all hypothetically speaking, of course). My point is it would have to be something completely new that could justify Disney completely overhauling their entire library as we consumers would then do as we went from DVD to whatever that new system was....man was that a really bad run-on sentence.

Anything less than a complete change and Disney runs the very real risk of having an extremely small consumer base for a new product. A lot of people have invested a lot of money on DVDs and home theatre systems since 1999...the next big thing is gonna have to be really big and really different for most (aside from those crazy early adopters) to completely overhaul their collections.

good thinking Indiana but the second $30,0000 question is ( )

Why are they releasing 2 disc set of their animated and live action now? Have they realize that they sell better and collector's will buy them? Why put effort in release Lion King Collector's Gift set. spend on better audio options on DVD and spend money on extras if they didn't get the point that their consumers want 2 disc. which brings my arguement back to the beginning. Disney now knows the everyone is upgrading to DVD and that 2 disc set and collector stuff sells. why would they just put a movie only HD-DVD with no extras or the same extras that regular had? I wouldn't buy cause i already have the other which is the same, maybe if they made the bonus run longer and more indepht maybe put in a box with the 5.1 soundtrack DVD-Audio or something, a book and lithographs then that would be a motive to upgrade and but it again! and since we are all collector's most likely we will get the cash out and pay whatever they ask for it.

Well, in some respects Disney earlier releases did have it right with their constant single disc and simultanious 2 disc releases. They had it wrong however in not promoting the 2 disc sets as much as the single disc releases. So you had a disc for the family, or a 2 disc set for the collector.

If Disney just wanted to sell DVDs to the masses they would still have this release stratergy now - release a single disc for the mass market and a 2 disc set at the same time (or soon after) for the collector market.

Look at the Dinosaur, Atlantis CE, or the Fantasia Anthology which followed this release pattern. Excellent discs and excellent supplements. Disney could do good supplements because they knew who they were aiming the sets at (well forget about The Emperor's New Groove which was slightly 'fluffy').

But now, despite there being a bigger potential audience for both, Disney would rather market only one release. The result is they don't know who their audience is and cannot please everyone. I can't really understand the logic - 2 seperate releases were OK for a smaller market, but not for a bigger one.

The Lion King Gift Set is, in my opinion MMB, Disney making up to collectors because they know the hardcore Disney fans will not be happy with the 2 disc set. It must be more cost effective to bundle a book than plan, film, edit and author a decent additional supplemental disc.

hey at least they did it! i saw the box today and omg it's gorgeous!

Anything less than a complete change and Disney runs the very real risk of having an extremely small consumer base for a new product.

I think there is a looming problem for the studios...

With the spectacular success of the DVD format, it's going to be really hard to dislodge it from the consumers mind and get them to open their wallets again for a new format. Especially if it's not backwards compatible with SD-DVD.

OK, so I brought BATB and LK platinums - in 10 years time can I see myself replacing them with HD versions? Probably not...

Vinyl, VHS tapes etc had the inherent disadvantage that they are a degrading medium - my old VHS of LK looks pretty shabby.

With CD's and DVD's these should last a long time and, well looked after, they can stand up to a lot of replays.

CK

unfortunately...(or fortunately depending on the way i look at it) ...being the obsessive compulsive disney fan i am...i probably will be one of the *sad* ones to completely upgrade my collection to HD DVD...even if its the same old fluff...

i mean...i'm a sucker for marketing haha...new cover art and they've got me...

MickeyMouseBoy wrote:If disney release awesome Laserdisc sets and back then not many people had laserdisc or were into upgrading but still Disney spend lots of $$$ to make expensive sets. why would they stop at HD-DVD? seeing that people actually want collector's ed.

Could also be asked as:

"If Disney released awesome DVD Collector's sets and back then not many people had DVD or were into upgrading but still Disney spend lots of $$$ to make expensive sets. why would they stop at DVD [today]? seeing that people actually want collector's ed."

See, it's exactly the same question. The people those early DVD sets were made for haven't stopped buying DVDs yet.

The people who wanted the decent collector's DVDs in the past are still around and want decent collectors DVD's today. In fact, there's more of them. And yet, Disney has decided to stop producing them (or sets which go into as much detail anyway). I still cannot understand the logic - basically "more sales potential" equates to "less effort". I suppose DVD really has "dumbed down".

Don't assume HD-DVD will have the awesome collector's edtions released - Disney seem to be taking steps backwards at the moment. It's not in Disney's interest to push HD-DVD, just like it wasn't in their interest to push normal DVD - Disney have no ties to the hardware manufactueres like some studios do. Paramount, like Disney had no interest in DVD hardware sales, and they have generally been late on jumping on the DVD and generally produce disappointing discs. Columbia (through Sony) will have an interest in releasing HD-DVD as software drives hardware sales (and vice versa). Warner Bros. had an interest in releasing DVD becuse they 'owned' the format - I suspect they have some ownership in HD-DVD too so again expect Warner to push the software.

So nothing can be assumed - what benefit is their to Disney in selling a HD-DVD in the first few years of it's life to potentially 1/3 (or less) of the audience of their normal DVD sales? Plus, why spend vast amounts of money on making the HD-DVD better when it's guarenteed to get smaller sales. The only way they could/would do this if they went back to the days of LaserDisc pricing - probably the pricing will be higher now than the old LaserDisc releases due to inflation!

Disney was content to sit on the sidelines for DVD's launch with barebones 'Limited Editions' (although to be fair they did pick some of their most popualar animated films, which was a surprise) and DIV-X titles. Likewise for HD-DVD, Disney have no vested interest (perhaps a slight interest in HD-TV through ABC, but no interest in selling HD-DVD players). I expect Disney to sit out on HD-DVD longer than most other studios.

2099net wrote:So nothing can be assumed - what benefit is there to Disney in selling a HD-DVD in the first few years of it's life to potentially 1/3 (or less) of the audience of their normal DVD sales? Plus, why spend vast amounts of money on making the HD-DVD better when it's guarenteed to get smaller sales.

Remember, Netty - you're asking this question about the same company that issued EZ-Ds. "Once bitten, twice shy" doesn't always seem to apply to Disney. They may actually be gutsy about hd yet. *shrug*