DVDizzy Forum

The problem I have with Finding Dory is that it's very obvious, though Andrew Stanton will definitely deny it, it's only being made because John Carter tanked. We heard not a single whisper about Finding Nemo 2...under after John Carter was released. Stanton had even said there would be no sequel to Finding Nemo. Plus, if John Carter had been a hit, we would have spent the next six or so years on completing his planned trilogy. After that hypothetical situation, he would have projects landing in his lap and probably wouldn't rest on his laurels.

It's very obvious that after Disney lost a bunch on John Carter, he was forced to make a sequel to his almost billion dollar-grossing animated feature or risk being put in movie jail with Elaine May and the director who made Sky Captain. So, the lesson is: if you desperately want The Incredibles 2 so much, hope that Tomorrowland bombs.

Who cares what's canon. It's all fictional, we can just decide for ourselves.

Your analysis of the situation is spot on, estefan. I couldn't agree more.

Sotiris wrote:Following such a canon is not only an impossible task but it results in many inconsistencies and contradictions.

That's exactly my point. When everything is "canon" (which, I agree, is a fairly stupid idea to begin with), who are we to decide that one group of fans is "wrong" for liking or even acknowledging a certain film's existence?

To use Semaj's example - He expects everyone to simply ignore Little Mermaid 2 because it "isn't canon." But the fact is that it IS canon, and more importantly that it exists, and so those people who do, in fact, like it have every right to. It's not THEIR fault that a separation among fans is created. It's those who think the same way HE does, by looking down on those who don't agree and so causing that separation.

estafan wrote:So, the lesson is: if you desperately want The Incredibles 2 so much, hope that Tomorrowland bombs.

Hahah that's actually a pretty solid point. I do hope we see Incredibles 2 at some point, but I also hope that Tomorrowland is good. That said, however - even though Finding Dory is very obvious and the reason it's being made is obvious, that doesn't inherently mean it's going to be a bad film.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOGRzRGp4C8[/youtube]

I never said ALL sequels were terrible. I could understand if its for such a series as Harry Potter, or Lord of the Rings, or any superhero film, things that lend themselves to a franchise from the beginning. But many, for films that were fine as one-off stories are largely unnecessary. I just think on Pixar's part, they need to stop before it becomes a serious problem; they've already caused damage with Cars 2.

Also, everyone here should already know that when I said "canon", I meant the canon of Disney's animated features. There are currently 52 films in that canon. And while there are sequels within them, The Little Mermaid 2 is NOT one of them. To now say the DTV stuff IS canon and muddle stuff up further is fucking stupid.

Semaj wrote:To now say the DTV stuff IS canon and muddle stuff up further is fucking stupid.

There's a difference between the canon of WDAS and a canon within the world of a film. Since you were talking about how sequels ruin the original movie, it only made sense for you to be talking about the canon within the world of the film.

But regardless, either way you look at it my point still stands. Even though YOU don't like the sequels, that doesn't mean you can expect all the fans of those movies (and yes, there are plenty) to simply pretend they don't exist, just to satisfy your wishes. And more importantly, you certainly can't blame them when YOU create this separation among fans with your belief that only the films you deem worthy should "count".

SWillie! wrote:Even though YOU don't like the sequels, that doesn't mean you can expect all the fans of those movies (and yes, there are plenty) to simply pretend they don't exist, just to satisfy your wishes. And more importantly, you certainly can't blame them when YOU create this separation among fans with your belief that only the films you deem worthy should "count".

Yes, that goes without saying. Everyone should be able to enjoy whatever product they want without being mocked or attacked by "purists".

Sotiris wrote:Yes, that goes without saying.

Well, you'd certainly hope it would. Yet, here we are.

Can we change the name of the thread (now that we can)?

The main factor studios respond to whenever a sequel is made or distributed is the "we don't care" mentality that runs rampant among the general audience (as I'm seeing here where people are ignoring Disney's own fallacy for why Pixar should not do the same).

I can't simply "shut up and accept a stupid sequel for what it is" like you expect me to do. There ARE people besides me who are NOT fans of them, as even Disney eventually owned up to after a while.

Semaj wrote:I can't simply "shut up and accept a stupid sequel for what it is" like you expect me to do. There ARE people besides me who are NOT fans of them, as even Disney eventually owned up to after a while.

Of course there are, I'm one of them! I don't enjoy the movies either, and think they were a waste of time and money that could have been spent developing some great films! But that doesn't mean that we ignore those who DO enjoy them, and it also doesn't mean that just because some of the previous sequels were crap then all the rest will be. There have also been some sequels that turned out great, and so I hope to see more like that, rather than write off every single one that comes our way.

SWillie! wrote:Don't be so negative.

Why not? If people want to be negative, let them be negative. We're all just expressing ourselves here.

SWillie! wrote:I can't simply "shut up and accept a stupid sequel for what it is" like you expect me to do.

No one asked you to. You're free to keep on disliking sequels as much as you want.

Is anyone surprised by this title? I'd really like to know who you are.

I suppose we should go ahead and add, "Finding Dory was a box office smash and a Best Animated Film Oscar winner," to its Wikipedia page.

qindarka wrote:Who cares what's canon. It's all fictional, we can just decide for ourselves.

This is how I've always felt.

estefan wrote:So, the lesson is: if you desperately want The Incredibles 2 so much, hope that Tomorrowland bombs.

Tomorrowland is not Brad Birds directorial debut.

He has The Iron Giant, The Incredibles, Ratatouille and MI: Ghost Protocol under his belt with two Oscars in the bag. Sky Captain's director was a nobody. It's also difficult to compare him to Stanton because his transition to live-action was already a success. If Tomorrowland bombs, he'll still have opportunities enough lined up for him. Disney doesn't own him like they do with Andrew Stanton.

This reminds of me of how there was this other guy a long time ago named Michaelangelo who was tired of painting and really wanted to focus on his sculpting.

But, he was having trouble getting paid for scultping when this church comes along and says, "Hey, we'll give you a bunch of money to paint the ceiling for our chapel." He thought, "Hmmm. I can go ahead and do this and use this money to help me live while I work on my sculpting" and took the job.

His heart wasn't really in it so, of course, since he was just in it for the money, the ceiling turned out crap, right?

In regards to canon and sequels being bad or not, don't forget that Disney has changed which of their films were canon several times including not putting the wartime package features in the list originally. Also, if only theatrical sequels count, don't forget that Rescuers Down Under, Fantasia 2000, and Winnie the Pooh count. I personally like all three of them but I also enjoy The Tigger Movie, which was not done by the Theatrical Animation department so is not numbered. Plus I think it has better animation than some of the films that they did do count.

I personally have not yet seen any of the DTV sequels that I thought were even worth the time to watch. At this point, even if they are on the blu-rays with some of the films I do collect, I probably won't watch most of them. However, I'm seriously considering watching the three coming up in June, but even if they're crap it won't make me stop liking the originals.

It should be about quality and enjoyment and not what Disney numbers. I personally don't count the CG films in my "numbered" DAC collection even though I'm normally very anal-retentive about such things because I don't like Dinosaur, Chicken Little, or Tangled. I'm not going to buy them just because Disney slapped a number on them.

But then again, I enjoyed Cars 2 and thought Brave was very undeserving of it's Best Animated Feature Oscar. I even enjoyed John Carter *gasp* and thought it was greatly under-appreciated as a deliberately-paced old-time adventure film that was very badly marketed. So, what do I know?

Regardless, I'm looking forward to Finding Dory and expect to have a fun time watching it in the theatre.

ianwahlers wrote:His heart wasn't really in it so, of course, since he was just in it for the money, the ceiling turned out crap, right?

Are you honestly comparing Michelangelo to Andrew Stanton?

Sotiris wrote:

ianwahlers wrote:His heart wasn't really in it so, of course, since he was just in it for the money, the ceiling turned out crap, right?

Are you honestly comparing Michelangelo to Andrew Stanton?

Yeah, and I don't know if you've seen it, but the Sistine Chapel is kind of hideous.

It was just an example.

Plus as an artist I do feel justified in saying that Michaelangelo wasn't really all he was cracked up to be. Most of the time his nude female sculptures just look like dudes with tits slapped on the chest.

ianwahlers wrote:It was just an example.

Plus as an artist I do feel justified in saying that Michaelangelo wasn't really all he was cracked up to be. Most of the time his nude female sculptures just look like dudes with tits slapped on the chest.

Every woman he ever sculpted or painted looks like a guy because he was obviously gay.