DVDizzy Forum

SleepingBeautyAurora wrote:I totally agree that 2D is better then 3D but maybe that's just because I grew up watching the 2D films. I can't believe your friends think 3D is better! Anyone who grew up watching The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Lion King, Pocahontas, etc.... must be dying for another Golden Age of 2D animation from Disney, I know I am.

I also agree that 2D is much better than 3D. I like the Pixar films and "Chicken Little" and "Meet the Robinsons"- I like the stories, and the visuals definitely aren't bad, but I prefer looking at traditional animation.

I don't watch most non-Disney animated films, so I haven't seen most of the 3D animated films out there, but that's sad if people like those better than Disney Animated Classics. With all the potty humor and overload on pop culture references, I can't imagine anyone preferring those films to Disney Animated Classics!!!

I think that people of our generation are always going to appreciate traditional 2D animation more because it is what we grow up on. I do like the 3D Pixar films, but I also consider that like a separate entity from Disney - it's Disney, but it's different. I do not however like that Disney started to go to 3D for THEIR animated classics. I for one am going to be incredibly happy to see "The Princess and the Frog" take Disney back to traditional 2D animation.

I agree with a-net-fan. Although I'm fond of traditionally animated films, I've grown to appreciate computer-animated films as well. As Pixar has stated, "story is king" (although sadly many of Pixar's films just haven't been able to give me the feeling that I get when I watch DACs, although there are a couple of notable exceptions). Everything is built on the foundations offered by the story, and if the foundations aren't strong enough, the whole 'building' will collapse.

Disney hasn't been the only studio making good traditionally animated films, though. For instance, films such as Anastasia, The Land Before Time, Princess Mononoke and The Prince of Egypt among others are just as good as many of Disney's classics, and these films come from non-Disney studios. What they all have in common is that their story works, and everything is built carefully around it which further helps to make the films work as cinematic masterpieces as far as I'm concerned.

As for The Princess and the Frog, I have mixed feelings about it. Although I'm thrilled to see Disney attempt to bring traditional animation back in a big way, there are some concerns:

The studio has quite a tight schedule, considering that they had to get the traditional animation department back to work, and I'm worried if they'll be able to provide a good film in this schedule while they're 'relearning the art', so to speak.

Political correctness has also raised its ugly head as some of the elements of the film were considered racist. I hope that whatever changes Disney makes to the story won't make it worse for the film's narrative, because often political correctness does more harm than good.

There's also the controversial issue of replacing composer Alan Menken with Randy Newman. I fail to understand Lasseter's point of view of Disney repeating itself with Menken and audience growing tired of him: after all, Menken was one of the people responsible for the Disney Renaissance, and he scored every film from The Little Mermaid to Hercules in a rapid succession (with the notable exception of The Lion King), and all these scores were different enough from each other albeit they did have the Menken-esque sound in them. Menken's scores have become timeless masterpieces, and above all they're memorable. When we compare this with Randy Newman, there's a big difference.

I'm not generally against Mr. Newman although he has never made me as excited as Menken has music-wise. Newman might be an alright choice for the upcoming film because of the Jazz elements of his music and he might even surprise me positively, but I keep wondering what might've been if Menken was still the composer. It'll be interesting to hear the result, and I hope that Newman brings in Disney magic with his music, because the film will need all the help it gets to fulfill audience expectations.

Political correctness has also raised its ugly head as some of the elements of the film were considered racist. I hope that whatever changes Disney makes to the story won't make it worse for the film's narrative, because often political correctness does more harm than good.

Yeah, that exactly what I've been thinking. I hope to God that this movie doesn't just become a film Disney makes to please its Black audience, and if it doesn't, it'll be shut up in the vault and the future members of the forum will be pleading for a release of it.

I fail to understand Lasseter's point of view of Disney repeating itself with Menken and audience growing tired of him

I had no idea Lasseter ever said that. That's just stupid. I'm getting tired of Newman in every Pixar film. Isn't he in all of them? And I can't describe how happy I was to hear Menken in Enchanted. It was beautiful.

UmbrellaFish wrote:I'm getting tired of Newman in every Pixar film. Isn't he in all of them?

No, although he's the most frequent composer for Pixar films so far. He's scored the following: Toy Story 1&2 (and seems like he's scoring TS3 as well), A Bug's Life, Monsters Inc. and Cars.

Although Newman's style is alright, it just doesn't stand out and sounds somewhat bland. I'm glad that Pixar has deviated from his sound particularly recently, because I felt Michael Giacchino's scores for The Incredibles and Ratatouille were superior to both Randy Newman's efforts and Thomas Newman's score for Finding Nemo.

I think it's good that Disney's isn't relying on Menken all the time (after all, he won't be around forever and there are other talent composers out there, so it's nice to give others a try as well), but it would've been nice to hear him score The Princess and the Frog because he's shown he's capable of writing diversive scores.

I think we honor 2D more because we understand all the work that goes into making a full-length, traditionally-animated feature film like this. Most people who like 3D films (or at least CGI, which is what I'm supposing you mean) only like them for the "comedy", or because someone they know is voicing one of the characters (namely Bee Movie or Shrek). If they don't like traditional animation, screw them. We know better.

Vermin Friends wrote:I think we honor 2D more because we understand all the work that goes into making a full-length, traditionally-animated feature film like this. Most people who like 3D films (or at least CGI, which is what I'm supposing you mean) only like them for the "comedy", or because someone they know is voicing one of the characters (namely Bee Movie or Shrek). If they don't like traditional animation, screw them. We know better.

You could also sit down with your friends and discuss the differences between these two genres. I do that nearly everyday, and by the end of the conversation the people seem to appreciate the classic animation more. Most people have no idea how much time, effort, love, and devotion the animators had for these films.

I prefer hand-drawn (don't like calling it 2D) animation over CGI anyday! I think how much effort they put into it doesn't matter. It's all about liking the end result. And you know what? I love lines. I love the lines and colored lines and ink that is only for hand-drawn animation. I love how they can draw those lines that keep everything in place and make the object 3-D, that's right, traditional animation already had a way of making objects look round and realistically moving. You can see it if you pay attention to it. They can even do shadows. And hand-drawing them and hand-painting them, does, of course, give them the warmer, more feeling, more alive qualities. But I even like traditional's mistakes! Like the colors changing slightly or lines disappearing or something forgotten about or something added that shouldn't be there, etc. And besides, line drawings will always fit more for my favorite movies which are based on fairy tales since fairy tales are associated with storybooks and illustrations. However I won't mind a CGI Rapunzel because that is trying to look like a moving painting and act hand-drawn.

What? how can Lasseter say such a thing about Alan Manken? he's the best,i was so happy to hear his songs in Enchanted Randy Newman is the one who's getting too much.

Hi guys! It's been a long time since I've posted but I just heard about this movie and I am psyched!!! I thought Disney had closed all of their traditional animation studios; have any of them reopened? I was ecstatic when I saw the animation in Enchanted, but I still don't know who worked on that. And now they have a new fully animated feature film on the way? This is great!

I have to say, I've always wanted an animated Disney classic that featured black people and/or people in a United States city setting. Oliver & Company and Atlantis don't quite cut it for me...

Anyway, I knew that traditional animation would make a comeback, once the general public got tired of CGI. And guys, let's not argue over which is better. I think they're both great and should both be used. Plus, I think it's obvious how much computers have contributed to traditional animation these days. Look at any animated scene in Enchanted. Every one of them was probably enhanced by the technology available today. Personally, I prefer traditional animation, but I admit to loving what movies like Ratatouille had to offer.

I really hope Disney makes a good movie out of "The Princess and the Frog" and doesn't try too hard to make it "a big thing" or "the start of a new era" because that kind of creative thinking usually leads to ruin.

If it's still due for release next year, we should be seeing final/near final artwork in the near future. I especially look forward to Louis the alligator, who might just steal the show for me as long as he's not a Sebastian clone.

The character design of Tiana has been altered (as well as her dress)




http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=43815

Comparison:



The first one (left pic) is the old one and the second one (right pic) is the new one.

I just wanted to say that I love Tiana's design. The first concept arts of her were just aweful but now in her glittering ballgown I think she's one of the most beautiful Disney girls we've ever seen. I hope she is unique and vibrant like all the other Princesses are and I can't wait to hear her singing voice.

On that note I will miss Menken in this film but I suppose we all have to realize he has written four of the Disney fairytale films music so far and it about to time to let someone else have a turn (I can't believe I just said that cause Menken is my hero). But Randy may do a good job. His music in 'Cats Don't Dance' is vibrant and energetic and does not give a country sense at all. It reflects the broadway sound we have all come to love. If he goes with this sound the music will be excellent. However if I hear one song that sounds like something out of Toy Story I will be so mad cause we all know that sound is wrong for the classic Disney fairytale medium.

The last thing I want to say is a small comment about the story. While it is cool that we are going to have a new Princess who is born royalty I was quite upset by the black communities response to Tiana's original character concept. While I hated her original name and am happy to see it changed I was left dumbfounded by their comments about her being a chamber maid. HELLO PEOPLE SO WAS CINDERELLA AND SNOW WHITE, not to mention Belle starting off as a peasent girl. While I respect their point of view I felt that the return to the story of the chamber maid who rises about everything and becomes Princess was a great call back to Disney's earlier works and that the black community should have put the story into the context of Disneys larger body of work. I mean no disrespect in saying any of this, but it was just my point of view I wanted to present.

Still I am happy to see Tiana as she is and I know already that she is going to be right up their with Ariel, Aurora and Giselle for me

i hate the 'restoration'. they lost the original dazzling blue colors of the night sky..and the dress isnt white anymore

I liked the older design better. Something about the newer one reminds me of a high school prom.

So far, I'm on edge about this film. It could be great or it could really suck. Randy Newman, the voodoo, even the girl's name (Tiana) aren't really 'wonderful' to me so far, but I could change my mind. Either way, I'm just glad to see traditional animation again (even if it most likely won't be at its highpoint here).

Oh my, that full-width still looks spectacular, I don't really even mind the alterations to the hair or dress. Thanks so much for posting the news source, sotiris2006- especially the comparison, it saved me a lot of time rather than going all the way back to page... idk, 6? lol

The new logo looks interesting, but I'm not sure if I like the green/purple contrast... reminds me too much of Barney. lol I like the font changes- how "Princess" is clean and elegant while "Frog" is chaffed and "crunchy", for lack of a better term. lol I'm gonna have to keep and eye on those stars, though... I don't want no SEX (err... SFX) ruining this masterpiece.

I'm not sure if it was Rapunzel or the Princess and the Frog that I was complaining about Randy Newman, but now that I think about it, I think it was a good call. I know Randy Newman best for his work on Toy Story, which was very country-esque, and since (if I remember correctly) this film is supposed to take place during the jazz-era, I think Randy can pull it off a little better than Alan. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Alan Menken, but for this particular setting, I think Randy would fit the profile a little better. They'd just better not use him for Rapunzel.

Thanks again, sotiris2006!

New picture of Tiana:
http://animated-news.com/wp-content/upl ... ncess2.jpg

Her design is very much like Ariel's.