DVDizzy Forum

Lazario wrote:DisneyPrincess, you clearly do not understand a great deal about people. If you did, you wouldn't be a conservative. The rules conservatives make do not work for everyone. They barely work for even a significant portion of Americans. And it is due to a lack of education that people make the mistake of thinking they do. You don't have to be stupid to be misinformed or lack serious life experience. Which you obviously do.

It's obvious because you just made the incredible mistake of saying you don't agree with homosexuality. If you understood what it was, you would know that you can't make a statement like that. Because it's my life and the lives of millions of people around the world. It's not a choice, and as far as millions of people around the world know - they were born with it. It sounds like you really can't get used to that. What does it matter? The only reason anyone gets away with saying they don't agree with it is because some people claim the Bible says homosexuality is bad.

So now, is that a legitimate excuse for you to say you don't agree with it? No. Because in addition to having the freedom to have sex with any living consenting adult human beings that we want to, people have the freedom to choose what religion they belong to. What a world it actually is, isn't it? The day conservatives accept our freedoms - that's the day I'M JENNIFER LOPEZ!

That's why conservatives are wrong. They are wrong because they tell us what living consenting adult human beings we are allowed to have sex with, what religions we are allowed to practice and believe, what manner of behavior is appropriate for women, who is allowed to serve in the military, who is allowed to wed and receive what legal spouse rights, what we are allowed to do with our bodies, what methods women are allowed to use as birth control... They want to control our lives. They identify who they see as not living the way conservatives live and try to make laws to designate how we're best suited to live like them.


By the way, I agree with A LOT (not all) of the things you said about liberals. But I dare you to provide a real example of how and where liberals actually took away one of your rights!!! I don't go purposefully looking for the underdog or people with no rights - I'm not complaining. I'm speaking the truth about things that can't be accepted in our society if we are to say we are a society ruled by any kind of moral system. Morals mean you do what's right. Not what makes people more comfortable. Conservatives want the world of people to play by their rules - practice the same sexuality and religion, act the same way, think the same things... I don't accept that.

I've lived in this world the same as you. I choose to live by God's Word, and I expect to be persecuted for what I believe. Now, I never said that Liberals ever took one of my rights away- they haven't. I just don't appreciate the hypocracy of one person's views not being equal to the other's (as you have so clearly displayed). I love how you say I have not experienced life- just because I'm not gay? To me it is a choice and it does say in the Bible that you will never see the Kingdom of Heaven- and that is what I believe. You believe it's not a choice and that is fine. The last time I checked, you are free to be gay and in many states be legally married. Women are also still free to have an abortion. I could have, but chose not to and I have been rewarded every day because of it. I have had friends and family that did choose to have abortions and some are in counseling to this day over it. Not me or anyone else have taken any of those rights away. I appreciate and respect your views, and I hope you will mine as well. I hope now we can move back to what this thread was really intended for.

DisneyPrincess wrote:By the way, I don't fly the United States flag or any flag to get anyone to buy into anything. I fly it because I love the country I live in and would not live in any other. Why is it that all of a sudden flying it imposes anything on anyone?

I know this thread is getting hotter and hotter, but I must admit as someone not from the USA, sometimes the constant flag waving does seem a bit intimidating. That's not to say that flying a flag is a totally bad thing, and I'm not stopping you from loving your country, but it can get out of hand, and this moral isn't aimed at just Americans; this is a teaching for the English, the French, the Germans and people of many other nations (for the record, I don't fly the Union Jack, but that does not mean that I hate Britain). I highly doubt that you're intending to be a xenophobe, but especially when you couple the stars and stripes with statements like the one in your signature and the one that I just bolded, it can seem threatening towards non-Americans, almost implying extreme right-wing views. In future, I would re-word things.

Thank you DisneyPrincess for stating your believe even if you knew you'd be argued with. That certainly took some courage.

Lazario- I can understand a few places where your coming from, disagree with you on lots more, but I'm going to just repeat what I said in my last post: can you tone it down a bit?

Reading your siggies and reading your arguements, it's almost looks like your trying to make everyone who doesn't agree or completely agree with you on a certain subject on this site, completely agree. I can tell you right now your trying to fight a loosing battle.

If you think DisneyPrincess statement on Bill Clinton and John Kerry were so dumb, than either ignore it or PM her. Nobody argued with you when you said all Republicans annoyed you on this thread.

I can't speak for DisneyPrincess but I can say these political fight on UD get nowhere. They only create anger. I would rather argue about Disney movies.

Timon/Pumbaa fan wrote:
I can't speak for DisneyPrincess but I can say these political fight on UD get nowhere. They only create anger. I would rather argue about Disney movies.

Thanks Timon for your support, I agree. I hate to sit back and not be respected for my beliefs, but I agree we need to move on.

Wonderlicious wrote:

DisneyPrincess wrote:By the way, I don't fly the United States flag or any flag to get anyone to buy into anything. I fly it because I love the country I live in and would not live in any other. Why is it that all of a sudden flying it imposes anything on anyone?

I know this thread is getting hotter and hotter, but I must admit as someone not from the USA, sometimes the constant flag waving does seem a bit intimidating. That's not to say that flying a flag is a totally bad thing, and I'm not stopping you from loving your country, but it can get out of hand, and this moral isn't aimed at just Americans; this is a teaching for the English, the French, the Germans and people of many other nations (for the record, I don't fly the Union Jack, but that does not mean that I hate Britain). I highly doubt that you're intending to be a xenophobe, but especially when you couple the stars and stripes with statements like the one in your signature and the one that I just bolded, it can seem threatening towards non-Americans, almost implying extreme right-wing views. In future, I would re-word things.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I enjoy the fact that I live in the USA. I'm not pushing it on anyone and the last thing I'm trying to do is intimidate you. If you chose to have your flag in your signature, I wouldn't think anything about it. You should be proud of the place you call home.

However, my quotes in my signature are not aimed at anyone, except to show quotes that people have said and how disrespectful they can be. I did not say that, Robert Altman did (who was born in the USA).

I don't think you would appreciate it if I said that when I see your flag flying it's a joke. I respect England just as you do the United States. I don't remember ever saying that I did not like England or any other place, I just said that I would not live anywhere else. I would not be offended if you said that about your country. I also don't think the USA is any "better" than any other country. You should not take offense what I said, because I did not mean it that way, but I'm sorry if you do.

Now to redirect the thread back to its original intent:

I've discovered more things that annoy me:

When fire truck or police car sirens are wailing and lights are flashing and people in front of them still won't pull over, even when they honk!

The ringtones on my cell phone

Infommercials- of course they are going to try and make their product look like you can't live without it!

Most commercials- how many different kinds of loans mortages and insurances can you get? (Geico, DiTech, State Farm, etc.)

People who think screeching their tires and driving with their music full blast at 3:00 in the morning is going to impress anyone.

Okay, that's all for now.!

DisneyPrincess wrote:Now, I never said that Liberals ever took one of my rights away- they haven't.

Your darn right they haven't. So... can you or anyone else explain what's with all the paranoia? (rhetorical question) Liberals are there for a very good reason, and it's not just another trial or tribulation.

DisneyPrincess wrote:I just don't appreciate the hypocracy of one person's views not being equal to the other's

They're not equal. The majority of conservatives are not happy until people give up their rights so that their lives look more traditional. It's all about appearences. And then, the religious right explains that all the motivations of the people they and the conservatives disagree with are Satanic or subversive... Don't these people think there's a certain amount of natural pride in being who you are, no pretentions attached? There's nothing about conservativism that is really real. It's all a fantasy. If the world were perfect, we would all be conservative. Because once we've established there are no second class citizens and we all accept each other for our differences - we have something that doesn't need change. These are the traditions we should be promoting.

DisneyPrincess wrote:I love how you say I have not experienced life- just because I'm not gay?

Do you honestly believe that's what I was saying...? For the love of God, do you actually know any gay people? Do you have any idea whatsoever what it's like to be gay? Or do you just assume that all gay people want to molest children and rape goats, all gay men dress like women, and all lesbians are truckers or carpenters and all gay men are interior designers or cakemakers? I swear to God, I'm starting to get the idea that no one here has ever met a gay athlete!

DisneyPrincess wrote:To me it is a choice and it does say in the Bible that you will never see the Kingdom of Heaven- and that is what I believe.

That was then, this is now. If frickin' religious people and conservatives would get off our backs and let us live without persecution and oppression, the amount of gay people involved in crimes (in the roles of both victims and victimizers) would go down to a percentage so low - people would realize just how much crime is decided/encouraged by societal arrangements!

DisneyPrincess wrote:Women are also still free to have an abortion. I have had friends and family that did choose to have abortions and some are in counseling to this day over it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not pro-abortion because I think killing is ever the right thing to do. I'm pro-abortion because the alternative to the biological parents raising the child is incredibly unrealistic and unpredictable. The child should never be doomed to an uncertain, unstable future. That's the worst thing of all. AND I KNOW this for a fact - I was an unwanted child raised by irresponsible parents. For the vast majority of my growing years, I would have signed my life away to Dr. Kvorkian if I'd had the money.

Timon/Pumbaa fan wrote:Lazario- can you tone it down a bit?

You got it.

Timon/Pumbaa fan wrote:Reading your siggies and reading your arguements, it's almost looks like your trying to make everyone who doesn't agree or completely agree with you on a certain subject on this site, completely agree. I can tell you right now your trying to fight a loosing battle.

Yeah I know. My opinions on this matter are all about fairness. If you want people to be fair to you, you have to be fair in return. Liberal and conservative are 2 different worlds and I'm starting to think the people fighting with me have no clue what they stand for. I'm starting to think these are the people who support the President just because he pretends to be patriotic. I could be wrong. But who's proving me...? The people who don't know any gay people and who don't care about women's rights because they figure they don't need them themselves, they have good men in their lives who support them and understand the boundaries. That's another conservative fantasy - good men are not easy to find.

Timon/Pumbaa fan wrote:I can't speak for DisneyPrincess but I can say these political fight on UD get nowhere. They only create anger. I would rather argue about Disney movies.

I hate trying to argue about Disney movies. Somebody told me the songs from The Rescuers were bad. And that's a crock! They were excellent.

Anyway about the political arguments... They don't actually contain much political fact- do they? I'm arguing with the ideology. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I make up my mind after I've thought about things. I think we should know what it's like to be a woman before we vote on what rights women need or don't need. I'm sensitive to the needs of others, no oversensitive to everything! You don't have to watch your tongue, just get your mind to a healthy plateau where not everything is decided based on appearences!

DisneyPrincess wrote:I just don't appreciate the hypocracy of one person's views not being equal to the other's

Lazario wrote:They're not equal. The majority of conservatives are not happy until people give up their rights so that their lives look more traditional.

Okay, so my views are not equal- got it. I keep trying to get this across to you- <b>I have never tried to take anyone's rights away! I simply don't agree with them!</b>

DisneyPrincess wrote:I love how you say I have not experienced life- just because I'm not gay?

Lazario wrote:Do you honestly believe that's what I was saying...? For the love of God, do you actually know any gay people? Do you have any idea whatsoever what it's like to be gay? Or do you just assume that all gay people want to molest children and rape goats, all gay men dress like women, and all lesbians are truckers or carpenters and all gay men are interior designers or cakemakers? I swear to God, I'm starting to get the idea that no one here has ever met a gay athlete!

Of course I know gay people- I'm not some backwoods hick that doesn't know anything. I had college friends that were gay, and we had the mutual understanding that we didn't agree, but that didn't mean that we could be friends- <b>I still respected them</b>.

DisneyPrincess wrote:To me it is a choice and it does say in the Bible that you will never see the Kingdom of Heaven- and that is what I believe.

Lazario wrote:That was then, this is now. If frickin' religious people and conservatives would get off our backs and let us live without persecution and oppression, the amount of gay people involved in crimes (in the roles of both victims and victimizers) would go down to a percentage so low - people would realize just how much crime is decided/encouraged by societal arrangements!

"That was then, this is now". Now really, what does that mean? What spectaular phenomenon happened that the Bible has become null and void???? People were still tempted then as they are now.

DisneyPrincess wrote:Women are also still free to have an abortion. I have had friends and family that did choose to have abortions and some are in counseling to this day over it.

Lazario wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not pro-abortion because I think killing is ever the right thing to do. I'm pro-abortion because the alternative to the biological parents raising the child is incredibly unrealistic and unpredictable. The child should never be doomed to an uncertain, unstable future. That's the worst thing of all. AND I KNOW this for a fact - I was an unwanted child raised by irresponsible parents. For the vast majority of my growing years, I would have signed my life away to Dr. Kvorkian if I'd had the money.

Well, I'm sorry that you've ever felt that way.

Lazario wrote: The people who don't any gay people and who don't care about women's rights because they figure they don't need them themselves, they have good men in their lives who support them and understand the boundaries. That's another conservative fantasy - good men are not easy to find.

It is sad that you have such a generalization of conservatives. We are drones that are all alike and all have the perfect families and job, etc.

DisneyPrincess wrote:"That was then, this is now". Now really, what does that mean? What spectaular phenomenon happened that the Bible has become null and void???? People were still tempted then as they are now.

That is such a pathetic point of view. Temptation... Just in case you missed it, the majority of heterosexuals believe the Bible is full of baloney when it says sex before marriage is a sin. So then they're only EQUALLY as tempted as I am. No more, no less. Therefore, they will not bask in the glory of the Kingdom of Heaven as well. What a rosey outlook for the rest of all life! And by the way, I'm not like your college friends. I will never accept people's religious opinion that I'm sinning. My sexuality has never killed anyone nor have I ever used it as a weapon. I'm going to heaven if the vast majority of heterosexuals are. Don't you think God would have re-40 days and 40 nights-ed this world if what everyone's doing now is so against the Bible? Ever seen a real wild night at a college party (or at Spring Break) - people practically having sex in public, partially naked, booze covering everyone's everything, nothing but noise? Those hundreds of millions of people partaking in these activities are going to hell! But me, a guy who has sex only in a committed relationship, doesn't drink or smoke and has never done drugs once in his life... sure - I'm the one who's not going to heaven.

What would you ever do if you meet a Klansman?

Lazario wrote:

DisneyPrincess wrote:"That was then, this is now". Now really, what does that mean? What spectaular phenomenon happened that the Bible has become null and void???? People were still tempted then as they are now.

That is such a pathetic point of view. Temptation... Just in case you missed it, the majority of heterosexuals believe the Bible is full of baloney when it says sex before marriage is a sin. So then they're only EQUALLY as tempted as I am. No more, no less. Therefore, they will not bask in the glory of the Kingdom of Heaven as well. What a rosey outlook for the rest of all life! And by the way, I'm not like your college friends. I will never accept people's religious opinion that I'm sinning. My sexuality has never killed anyone nor have I ever used it as a weapon. I'm going to heaven if the vast majority of heterosexuals are. Don't you think God would have re-40 days and 40 nights-ed this world if what everyone's doing now is so against the Bible? Ever seen a real wild night at a college party (or at Spring Break) - people practically having sex in public, partially naked, booze covering everyone's everything, nothing but noise? Those hundreds of millions of people partaking in these activities are going to hell! But me, a guy who has sex only in a committed relationship, doesn't drink or smoke and has never done drugs once in his life... sure - I'm the one who's not going to heaven.

Okay, then I'll follow my "pathetic" point of view of the Bible, and you continue your point of view. What else needs to be said?

Lazario wrote: What would you ever do if you meet a Klansman?

What do you mean what would I do? Am I the minority now? I don't know what you expect me to take from that.

Lazario wrote: The people who don't any gay people and who don't care about women's rights because they figure they don't need them themselves, they have good men in their lives who support them and understand the boundaries. That's another conservative fantasy - good men are not easy to find.

Another false assumption about conservatives. You want to know something? My daughter's father walked away from us when I was pregnant. <b>I am a single parent</b>. I have never had the idea that good men are easy to find. I don't have a good man that supports us- <b>I take care of myself and my daughter- nobody else</b>.

See Lazario, not all conservatives are alike are they?

DisneyPrincess wrote:

Lazario wrote:What would you ever do if you meet a Klansman?

Am I the minority now? I don't know what you expect me to take from that.

The Ku Klux Klan used religion to justify their disapproving "opinions" of blacks. You don't see the similarity here? The KKK are widely recognized as wrong. So what about religion's "opinion" of gays is different from the Klans' religion's opinion of blacks?

It's funny how you neglected to reply to my post about generalizing the perfect man and realizing that we all don't have the perfect life as you believe, but then you are now comparing me to a Klansman. That is a drastic assumption.

That's what makes us different Lazario. I would never compare you to any hateful thing like that. Just because I'm religious does not mean I would run out and kill you if I knew you were gay. Now, just because the Klansmen "claimed" to be Christians, we are automatically Klansmen because we don't agree with your beliefs? Wow, I really feel sorry for you Lazario.

I'd apologize for your confusion, but that's what you people count on. Maybe if that's what you thought I meant, you were meant to make that comparison. Once again, I'm likening your ideologies - not your actions or potential actions. I'm saying, what's the difference between your thinking and their thinking? Both are intolerant to the point of needing to be disregarded. And just because your religion hasn't lead you to acts of violence, doesn't mean others have chosen your same path. You are taking this very personally. And that's strange. Because you have nothing to be upset about. Your religion has provided you with a cushion against the pain of understanding the full extent of homophobia. To be frank, you're not the one who's under attack. I'm simply questioning the ideas behind your way of thinking. And what is the difference? Sounds like you could use a slight brush up on religious history, I mean- if you don't understand how religion has been used against people. For you, it's something you've yet to learn. Me- I can't forget or ignore it.

Lazario wrote:I'm saying, what's the difference between your thinking and their thinking? Both are intolerant to the point of needing to be disregarded. And just because your religion hasn't lead you to acts of violence, doesn't mean others have chosen your same path.

I am very aware of how religion has been used against people. It is being used against me right now, in a different way. I am not a good person because I'm religious. "Both are intolerant to the point of needing to be disregarded". My view should be disregarded- because I am part of the religious view that homosexuality is wrong. Aren't you the ones who are supposed to be tolerant? I am not responsible for the ones who have chosen a different path. I am sorry that some people have such strong hate for homosexuals. I don't hate you or anyone else and I wish you would see that. I won't respond for all of religion, I just repond according to my beliefs and the desire for you to see that just because I'm a Conservative Republican does not mean I hate anyone or want to take all of anyone's rights away.

I've seen the likes of David Karesh, the Ku-Klux Klan and others, and I don't agree with them and I don't relate to myself with them in any way, but if you would like, that is fine. I only take it personally when you assume so many things about me and my life.

You are right, I do have the cushion against pain. God has taken care of me and forgiven me for my mistakes and choices. God is what gets me through the day. God is what makes me who I am. God has given me a purpose and I will do my best to live for Him and that is my choice. If you are "pro-choice" and "open-minded" and "tolerant" then you will respect that.

Wow, this is pretty intense. May I suggest coming to Dr. G's Diagonstic Center? I am here to help



Dr. Gideon

DisneyPrincess wrote:God has taken care of me and forgiven me for my mistakes and choices. God is what gets me through the day. God is what makes me who I am.

And that's a good way to feel, it's beautiful. Though perhaps it's also a bit sad. I happen to believe we have identities that have nothing to do with a God or a force or influence that is anything like a God. God does not soften the blows we receive in this life. Our trials and tribulations make us who we are.

DisneyPrincess wrote:If you are "pro-choice" and "open-minded" then you will respect that.

Your choices are used against me. That's all I ask you to understand before you make statements against homosexuality. Your saying you don't agree with it is very much the same as hating it. Both are a form of not understanding, not empathizing. They're both intolerance. Seeing us as different as a means to say that I am not part of your club. I know you don't mean it to be hurtful. But it is! And if I have to reject your idea of God to separate myself from the hateful ideology that suffocates so many people, so be it. It's not my choice. It's another decision made for me, set in motion before I came into my sexuality. I hope you see how wrong that is before you try to say we're still of different opinions. It has nothing to do with you. So for that, I will forever apologize. You deserve it.

Lazario wrote: Your choices are used against me. That's all I ask you to understand before you make statements against homosexuality. Your saying you don't agree with it is very much the same as hating it. Both are a form of not understanding, not empathizing. They're both intolerance. Seeing us as different as a means to say that I am not part of your club. I know you don't mean it to be hurtful. But it is! And if I have to reject your idea of God to separate myself from the hateful ideology that suffocates so many people, so be it. It's not my choice. It's another decision made for me, set in motion before I came into my sexuality. I hope you see how wrong that is before you try to say we're still of different opinions. It has nothing to do with you. So for that, I will forever apologize. You deserve it.

I do not want my choices to be used against you. I care about you as much as any other. I wish you wouldn't reject the idea of God. I want you to see that He does loves you just as much as anyone else. I'm not trying to convert you or anything like that and I'm not trying to shove anything down your throat. But I hope you will think upon that. I appreciate you for who you are, I really do.

Things that annoy/aggravate you to no end...

Well currently it is all these controversial threads. Why? Well, when Aaron's UD awards come, I have TOO many choices to nominate for "Most Controversial Thread".