DVDizzy Forum

Disney Duster wrote: The tables aren't turned. Both films are seen as among Disney's best and will be remembered and loved well.

I'm sure Tangled and TP&TF will both be remembered along with Frozen, especially thanks to the Disney Princess line guaranteeing they won't be forgotten. But the tables have turned in respect to what Mooky was talking about. TP&TF also had largely positive reviews from critics, only a few percentage points away from Tangled's rating; that doesn't mean it wasn't being torn a new one in comparison to the new film at the time by members on here (since I don't follow tumblr and the like, this is my only online reference point for reactions to Disney films), just like what's happening with Tangled now, and what will probably happen to Frozen if a new princess film comes out that makes more commercial and audience success than it (which I think is unlikely, but who knows).

For myself, I don't like Frozen just to spite Tangled because of the response to TP&TF; I just flat-out think it's better. Moving beyond the subjective though, what I think is impossible to deny is that Frozen has managed to touch our culture in a way that Tangled and TP&TF did not.

Disney's Divinity wrote:I'm sure Tangled and TP&TF will both be remembered along with Frozen, especially thanks to the Disney Princess line guaranteeing they won't be forgotten. But the tables have turned in respect to what Mooky was talking about. TP&TF also had largely positive reviews from critics, only a few percentage points away from Tangled's rating; that doesn't mean it wasn't being torn a new one in comparison to the new film at the time by members on here (since I don't follow tumblr and the like, this is my only online reference point for reactions to Disney films), just like what's happening with Tangled now, and what will probably happen to Frozen if a new princess film comes out that makes more commercial and audience success than it (which I think is unlikely, but who knows).

For myself, I don't like Frozen just to spite Tangled because of the response to TP&TF; I just flat-out think it's better. Moving beyond the subjective though, what I think is impossible to deny is that Frozen has managed to touch our culture in a way that neither Tangled and TP&TF did not.

Well, some Frozen fans may be praising Frozen at the expense of Tangled, like some Tangled fans praised Tangled at the expense of Princess and the Frog, but there are a sizable number of people who are vocal with counter-opinions as well. I remember reading some pretty strong comments from PATF fans regarding Tangled back when that came out at this very forum, the same type of comments that Mooky speaks of in regards to Tangled fans who trashed PATF. I haven't been a poster here, but I've been lurking here for a long time. My perception is that it has always gone both ways. And still is. I guess some Tangled fans used the runaway success of Tangled to validate their opinions back in 2010/2011, just like how some Frozen fans are doing so to validate theirs.

It seems weird to me that people here can hate some of these films so vehemently. They all are films from the same studio, which strive to meet the lofty standards set by Walt Disney himself. They strive to capture the same "magic." There are some films in the canon that I would say I'm not all too impressed with. Perhaps, in the case of some of them, the success doesn't seem quite fitting. Still, when I see the flaws of some of these films, I don't hate them for it (even if they have annoying fans). I appreciate them for what they are, though that's not to say I don't have my fair share of criticisms or wish that things were done differently. Isn't that what being a fan is?

I agree that Frozen has reached a level of pop cultural significance that both Tangled and PATF didn't. That's undeniable. But I truly believe those films, especially Tangled, set the stage for its success. Frozen had a record-breaking opening for a reason. The rest, of course, can be attributed to Frozen itself--it undeniably has resonated with a huge audience, hitting virtually all quarters. Still, Tangled, of course, won't be forgotten. It's fanbase has only grown since its success at the box office. Like Avaitor said, no one forgot about TLM, BATB, or Aladdin after the huge success of TLK. TLK made nearly 4x as much as TLM at the box office and had a soundtrack with sales figures that TLM didn't even come close to matching, yet they are both remembered fondly and remain entirely relevant today.

Disney's Divinity wrote:

Disney Duster wrote: The tables aren't turned. Both films are seen as among Disney's best and will be remembered and loved well.

I'm sure Tangled and TP&TF will both be remembered along with Frozen, especially thanks to the Disney Princess line guaranteeing they won't be forgotten. But the tables have turned in respect to what Mooky was talking about. TP&TF also had largely positive reviews from critics, only a few percentage points away from Tangled's rating; that doesn't mean it wasn't being torn a new one in comparison to the new film at the time by members on here (since I don't follow tumblr and the like, this is my only online reference point for reactions to Disney films), just like what's happening with Tangled now, and what will probably happen to Frozen if a new princess film comes out that makes more commercial and audience success than it (which I think is unlikely, but who knows).

For myself, I don't like Frozen just to spite Tangled because of the response to TP&TF; I just flat-out think it's better. Moving beyond the subjective though, what I think is impossible to deny is that Frozen has managed to touch our culture in a way that neither Tangled and TP&TF did not.

When was the last time a Disney film hit popular culture? Was it The Little Mermaid or Beauty and the Beast?

Disney's Divinity wrote:

Disney Duster wrote: The tables aren't turned. Both films are seen as among Disney's best and will be remembered and loved well.

I'm sure Tangled and TP&TF will both be remembered along with Frozen, especially thanks to the Disney Princess line guaranteeing they won't be forgotten. But the tables have turned in respect to what Mooky was talking about. TP&TF also had largely positive reviews from critics, only a few percentage points away from Tangled's rating; that doesn't mean it wasn't being torn a new one in comparison to the new film at the time by members on here (since I don't follow tumblr and the like, this is my only online reference point for reactions to Disney films), just like what's happening with Tangled now, and what will probably happen to Frozen if a new princess film comes out that makes more commercial and audience success than it (which I think is unlikely, but who knows).

For myself, I don't like Frozen just to spite Tangled because of the response to TP&TF; I just flat-out think it's better. Moving beyond the subjective though, what I think is impossible to deny is that Frozen has managed to touch our culture in a way that neither Tangled and TP&TF did not.

AGREED!

Mooky wrote:For the life of me, I don't know why you guys are getting so worked up over this

You know, as much as I like irony, you're taking it a bit too far here.

Mooky wrote: -- it's just normal, petty fan(boy) behavior.

Normal? Not really. Petty? You're right about that. I'm glad you actually admit that's what it is. Though I'm not sure why you're proud of it or defend it. But you just mentioned the reason why I don't feel comfortable discussing the movies any further with you. I'm already tired of your overly hostile tone and if this is your admitted motivation, I don't want to be a part of it.

Mooky wrote:Are you telling me you were never, even for a second, glad that, say, a DreamWorks/Pixar/Fox movie got worse reviews or made less money than a Disney film? Or that an album of a musician you disliked failed to make an impact? Or that a TV show you hated got cancelled?

No, I never was glad about any of that. You know what makes me glad? Real things that actually have an impact on my life. I couldn't care less about trivial shit like what's popular in showbiz or entertainment. If you do, I suggest you set your priorities straight.

Mooky wrote:Again, it's nothing personal, but this thread is called Tangled vs. Frozen after all, so of course discussion point like this was bound to come up.

There's discussion and then there is just plain nasty comments and turning everything personal.

Mooky wrote:With that said, I'm withdrawing myself from this discussion. I don't know why I even wrote anything in the first place.

Well, then that makes two of us.

Musical Master wrote:
When was the last time a Disney film hit popular culture? Was it The Little Mermaid or Beauty and the Beast?

I think TLM, B&tB, Aladdin, and TLK all touched popular culture. Tbh, I think it's harder for animated films to make an impact with audiences now than it was then just because there are so many of them being put out from so many different studios every year. I think the only Dreamworks films that have managed to are Shrek and, to a lesser degree, HTTYD. Pixar pretty much took over that role from Disney post-TLK....pre-Frozen?

Disney's Divinity wrote:

Musical Master wrote:
When was the last time a Disney film hit popular culture? Was it The Little Mermaid or Beauty and the Beast?

I think TLM, B&tB, Aladdin, and TLK all touched popular culture. Tbh, I think it's harder for animated films to make an impact with audiences now than it was then just because there are so many of them being put out from so many different studios every year. I think the only Dreamworks films that have managed to are Shrek and, to a lesser degree, HTTYD. Pixar pretty much took over that role from Disney post-TLK....pre-Frozen?

So Frozen is the rare breed of animated film to truly reach the public in a way that not even Tangled or Wreck it Ralph could accomplish?

Musical Master wrote:
So Frozen is the rare breed of animated film to truly reach the public in a way that not even Tangled or Wreck it Ralph could accomplish?

Granted, there's a lot more media these days...but I think yes. I have to go all the way back to The Lion King to remember when lines or phrases from an animated Disney feature entered the common nomenclature, or I heard a song from such a film get real radio airplay.

I love both movies equally. Story wise i feel both movies are equally matched, however, Frozen had a far greater score/soundtrack than that of Tangled's.

I feel the songs that really let Tangled down were WWMLB and STL.... I was really disappointed with Menken considering his songs are usually extraordinary! And those songs in comparison to Frozen's..... i say no more

The Lopez's did a fantastic job with the soundtrack and I always had an inclination that they would. I remember back on this forum when Frozen went back into production and people where saddened that the Lopez's were chosen to compose instead of Menken and i recall a lot of negativity surrounding The Lopez's.

It was a great decision really. Disney needs to keep changing things up like they did with Frozen. Though Frozen did stick to the somewhat same format as Tangled, Frozen's score essentially is a huge part of it's success (and Idina of course!)

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/21 ... d-20101121

My, how things at WDAS have since changed. Here is my favorite quote:

"Films and genres do run a course," said Pixar Animation Studios chief Ed Catmull, who along with director John Lasseter oversees Disney Animation. "They may come back later because someone has a fresh take on it … but we don't have any other musicals or fairy tales lined up." Indeed, Catmull and Lasseter killed two other fairy tale movies that had been in development, "The Snow Queen" and "Jack and the Beanstalk."

Fflewduur wrote:
Granted, there's a lot more media these days...but I think yes. I have to go all the way back to The Lion King to remember when lines or phrases from an animated Disney feature entered the common nomenclature, or I heard a song from such a film get real radio airplay.

i remember colors of the wind from pocahontas got quite a bit of airplay here in new zealand. before that, can you feel the love tonight. then i dont recall any disney film getting radio play until let it go.

Fflewduur wrote:I have to go all the way back to The Lion King to remember when lines or phrases from an animated Disney feature entered the common nomenclature, or I heard a song from such a film get real radio airplay.

"Pocahontas" was also widely quoted with the whole "Colors of the Wind" thing, and the song itself received considerable radio airplay.

True, Pocahontas got considerable media play. One could argue (if it were something were arguing about) that Lion King had more exposure, more elements that became engrained in the popular consciousness—“Circle of Life,” that song’s iconic opening chant, the gesture of raising Simba to the sky, the phrase “hakuna matata.” Not really surprising, considering that TLK was a bigger critical success, and much bigger at the box office; subjectively speaking, it was also more *fun*. And it had Elton John going for it….

Looking back, I confess I am a bit surprised to see that “Colors of the Wind” performed comparably to “Can You Feel the Love Tonight” as a chart single…but I’d also pretty well tuned out mainstream radio by that point. I remember Pocahontas getting more attention for its controversy, while TLK’s exposure had a much more celebratory tone. My personal recollections are undoubtedly colored—I thought Pocahontas was pretty weak. Beginning with Mermaid, there was a solid run by the studio that made me really happy again to be a fan of Disney feature animation, while the decade following Pocahontas became very much about second-string features, sequels, and a general feeling of disappointment.

Having watched the two films again...They're sorta half and half. Frozen is very derivative of Tangled (but again, Tangled itself is very derivative of older Disney films, so this point is moot), but in one film they do certain things a bit better than the other.

Hans as a villain seems rushed, but I sorta feel he's much more threatening than Gothel was, while she was often stuck between either playing it up serious or goofy. It's kinda hard to take her seriously due to that. I also like the concept/idea/message of the perfect Prince being evil, and also how the movie sorta foreshadows it all the time.

The comedy is so-so. It feels very Shrek-ish in Tangled at times and tries at times too much to make people laugh, but some of Anna's antics in Frozen are a little too on-the-nose.

Then comes the characters. Elsa is an interesting and unique character for Disney, but the focus is on Anna, who I feel is a derivative of Rapunzel. While she is certainly more flawed, the humor aspect of her is kinda why I can't take her too seriously at times. Rapunzel may be idealized at times but she is a charming and genuine character. Flynn initially is hard to like, but you warm up to him. Kristoff is very Flynn 2.0, but he's just kinda there overall for me. I do prefer Johnathan Groff as a voice than Levi, tho. The sidekicks are ok; Maximus at times is a little tiresome but they just don't overall take over the film. It's no Jar Jar, thankfully.

The music: Frozen, obviously. It has the problem of the songs finishing around the second act but I like the beginning where it seems almost like a genuine Broadway musical, with songs nonstop. In Tangled, I feel you can cut the songs and it'd barely change a thing.

The animation...I'll never really connect fully to 3D as to 2D, so I'll refrain from commenting on this. I do think that both films do look different in the aspect of the backgrounds and overall "look" of the film, despite the female characters resembling too much one another. (but that's an issue for another day).

I think for me the perfect film would be a blend of the two, tbh.

I think Tangled has a better plot and better characters development. If I compare Rapunzel with Anna - Rapunzel starts out as a naive girl who doesn't know about the world and is really submissive to her mother, throughout the film she learns do much about the world and becomes more assertive.

Anna, on the other hand has little to no development, she pretty much understood the meaning of her sister's love at the climax after she tried to get to Hans then Kristoff and then Elsa, and she would have done the same thing if Elsa and Kristoff swotched places because she would have tried to save the one who was in immediate danger. Elsa, like Anna, gets her development at the climax as well. In the climax she realizes that Anna loves her and that is enough yo not make the land Frozen, it felt really sudden and there weren't any gradual understanding leading to that moment

Kristoff is really underdeveloped, we barely know anything about him and he pretty much stays the same throughout the film, unlike Flynn who is selfish at the beginning and learns to care for another person to the point where he's willing to sacrifice himself. Tangled's characters have better facial expressions as well, probably the best out of any CGI film ever made. Frozen creators probably didn't want to make their female characters "ugly".

Tangled plot structure feels like it tries to combine a Disney Renaissance film with DreamWorks comedy. I didn't like the Dreaamworks comedy, especially the end. The Renaissance part pales in comparison to real Renaissance films.
Frozen's plot is really bland and written backwards. I feel like the creators wanted to "subvert tropes" and to do "plot twists" that I feel like contributed to my feeling that the chracters aren't developed properly because their journey is not what matters. I also didn't like that politics are handwaved in Frozen, I feel like paying attention to these kind of details really what makes the difference between a "mature" film and a "kids" film, and Frozen definitely seems like it's aimed for a younger audience.

Honestly, I think Moana is better than both films.

farerb wrote: Tangled plot structure feels like it tries to combine a Disney Renaissance film with DreamWorks comedy. I didn't like the Dreaamworks comedy, especially the end. The Renaissance part pales in comparison to real Renaissance films.

This is a good way to describe it. I despise the humor in Tangled and even the "epic" or "dramatic" moments lose their power and pathos because of the bad blend of comedy, and frankly the heights in Tangled never reach the best moments of the Disney Renaissance.

Frozen wins for me just from the songs alone, but I also prefer the setting and characters. Maybe the characters don't develop as much as the ones in Tangled (although I personally don't see much development for Rapunzel. She's pretty much the same character at the beginning of the film as she is at the end) but they're far more lovable. There's a reason they've all become so iconic because music alone can't save a film, otherwise Pocahontas would be better regarded. There's a magic to Frozen that even with all its weaknesses and plot idiocies that Tangled simply doesn't possess. But people in general love Tangled as well, so I know I have an unpopular opinion since most people think that it brought back the classic Disney magic.

I feel like neither film brought back the Disney magic, it is long gone, the final film that really had it was The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and it won't be back as long as Disney doesn't do traditional animation. I like both films, but each has its flaws and in my opinion they got good reception because they came after a decade of bad - mediocre films, but they never reached the height of the Renaissance films in my opinion.

Frozen was the closest out of the newest Disney movies that brought back the Disney magic for me, but I agree that Disney simply isn't the same it was and it probably will never be that again. Hunchback is one of the last truly great Disney films, but after that, I'd say Tarzan was the next best one. For some reason there isn't much love for Tarzan anymore, despite it having been a huge hit at the time. It's one of my personal favorites though and I consider Pocahontas, Hunchback, and Tarzan as just as great as the Big Four.

In the 2000s, the only two films that I think really represented the pinnacle of Disney were Lilo & Stitch and Enchanted. The former isn't classic Disney at all, but the film has huge heart and is a new classic imo. And out of the all new fairy tale/princess films that Disney has done, Enchanted was my favorite. The fact that the director of Tarzan directed it as well means that I was probably bound to like it.