DVDizzy Forum

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Fflewduur wrote:

pinkrenata wrote: Yeah and then he ripped off Chicago with Nine! Which proved he never was that creative to begin with... Or else he was creative for, like, 2 minutes and then ran out of ideas.

How was Nine a ripoff of Chicago?

Ooooh, I missed this. And am happy to explain. The musical numbers in both films primarily take place in the lead character's mind. I was able to live with this for Chicago, but Nine felt like a retread. Granted, I have never seen either shows on stage, but what I know of the musical Nine gives me the idea that this "Marshall-ian formula" was better suited to Chicago and seemed to cheapen Nine, not to mention resulting in many songs being cut.

Geisha was bland, I thought. But I'm no film critic. And wasn't a huge fan of the book either.




Blegh to more Disney-fied adaptations. Maleficent had to be nice, Elsa had to be nice, and NOW the Baker's Wife can't even get it on with the Prince? WTF, yo?

Well, the Prince is an ass, so it's not like she's missing out on much. But it does seem like a fairly important plot point. I haven't seen the musical, but reading an extended synopsis, I don't think the changes seem like they make too much difference to me...? Besides, it's kind of awful she commits adultery just before she dies... It almost implies an adultery is a reason to be put to death or something.

I didn't really know much about the musical, so I was just excited for Meryl Streep as the Witch from 'Rapunzel' and Johnny Depp as the Wolf from 'Red Riding Hood' previously. Having read the story now, I'd like to hear the songs, too. I'm buying the original with Bernadette Peters, of course, but were there any later adaptations or particular performances by other actors that are worth looking at? I know Vanessa Williams played the Witch at some point.

Disney's Divinity wrote: Besides, it's kind of awful she commits adultery just before she dies... It almost implies an adultery is a reason to be put to death or something.

Just remembering you've had an "and",
When you're back to "or",
Makes the "or" mean more
Than it did before.
Now I understand-

And it's time to leave the woods.

Or maybe makes her death that much more meaningful/sad because she's finally learned to appreciate her own life.

pinkrenata wrote:NOW the Baker's Wife can't even get it on with the Prince?

Well, kissing is still cheating!

It's not necessarily an important plot point, but hardly anything is. The plot is rather silly and basic. It's primarily a character-driven musical with lyrics that are very introspective, meaningful, and poetic (and also funny/witty as well). I guess if they're cutting that song out it doesn't matter But taking that out takes out one of the character's defining moments, even if it comes right before her death. It wouldn't be the first time Rob Marshall trimmed a musical down with a machete.

It was expected that it would be Disney-fied. Otherwise it would not have been released under the Disney brand.

I for one applaud Disney adapting and creating musicals. It's a core business next to animation. Also, Sondheim is involved and he has approved.

I love the logo! But onto more important elements...

These changes are too important to how good the musical was! This is exactlty why I didn't want Disney to be the ones to make this! Maybe pinkrenata was right that this wasn't a good idea, if changes like this are what she meant!

The death of Rapunzel was a very important point for the heart and lesson of one of the musical's themes, "Children Will Listen", and now with the adultery and "Moments in the Woods" song removed a character and lesson-defining moment is removed! "Moments in the Woods" was about how it's important to appreciate a good spouse and life and not cheat on your spouse. The plot point and song treated fairy tales in an adult sense! I'm so mad at Disney now!

Sondheim and Lapine should have said they wouldn't give Disney the rights if they made these changes!

Disney's Divinity wrote:Well, the Prince is an ass, so it's not like she's missing out on much. But it does seem like a fairly important plot point. I haven't seen the musical, but reading an extended synopsis, I don't think the changes seem like they make too much difference to me...? Besides, it's kind of awful she commits adultery just before she dies... It almost implies an adultery is a reason to be put to death or something.

I didn't really know much about the musical, so I was just excited for Meryl Streep as the Witch from 'Rapunzel' and Johnny Depp as the Wolf from 'Red Riding Hood' previously. Having read the story now, I'd like to hear the songs, too. I'm buying the original with Bernadette Peters, of course, but were there any later adaptations or particular performances by other actors that are worth looking at? I know Vanessa Williams played the Witch at some point.

The prince is handsome and her "moment" was only for, well, you know (sex!), so she was missing out of that, lol. It is wondered if that character dies because of adultery, but that's probably not the case because that character learns she should not have commited adultery, just before she dies.

Anyway, the show premiered in 1987. After Bernadette Peters left the show, Phylicia Rashād, the mother from The Cosby Show, was the Witch. You can see some of her in the performance from the show at the 1988 Tony Awards on Youtube. In 1990 there was a London production in which Imelda Staunton, Professor Umbridge from Harry Potter and Knotgrass from Maleficent, was the Baker's Wife. In America, in 2002, there was a revival of Into the Woods with Vanessa Williams as the Witch. She was not said to be very good. Laura Benanti, who later played Baroness Elsa Schräder in The Sound of Music Live!, was Cinderella, and was said to be good. Overall the 2002 show was said to not be as good as the one that premiered on Broadway, but I like a lot of things about it and a bootleg can be found on Youtube, at least for now. You can also find a Youtube video of that show's performance on the 2002 Tony Awards.

I just checked and "Lament" (followed by the new song), "Any Moment", "Moments in the Woods" and "Children Will Listen" were all in the script. You can download it here, by the way. The one that was probably cut was "Any Moment", according to the article posted on the previous page.

If I was wrong and only the "Any Moment"'s were cut, and not "Moments in the Woods", that's not nearly as bad.

The adultery is still there: they kiss repeatedly.

Disney Duster wrote: After Bernadette Peters left the show, Phylicia Rashād, the mother from The Cosby Show, was the Witch.

Oh, I bet she was really good, too! I read about Imelda Staunton as the Baker's Wife, but that seems like a strange choice (although she is a good actress). Too bad Vanessa Williams wasn't that good. I like her more as a personality than an actress/singer, tbh.

I agree, I really like the logo. You and pinkrenata are probably right about the plot change, since fairy tales are supposed to be about "lessons." I have to admit, reading the plot with Rapunzel dying, I am a little disappointed she's going to live in the Disney take. It did read as very tragic, since she'd gone mad because of what the Witch did to her. I wonder if they'll still have "Witch's Lament" (I don't know the lyrics so I'm not sure if it's explicit about Rapunzel being dead and couldn't be used anyway)?

Stephen says in the article that "Any Moment" will probably get cut. He said nothing about "Moments in the Woods", though I can understand the confusion.

Well Disney being Disney, I'm not surprised in the least they've changed it; they can't have that happening to one of their heroines! The shock, the horror!

I think if they've gone to Stephen, and he's reworked it himself, I have to give credence to it for the time being. He's extremely vocal about if he hates something, and I would hope this would be no different. Or unless he loathes it and Disney have him under a golden handcuff deal?

Disney's Divinity wrote:I read about Imelda Staunton as the Baker's Wife, but that seems like a strange choice (although she is a good actress).

Have you ever seen 'Vera Drake'? Imelda is a chameleon!

Disney's Divinity wrote:I have to admit, reading the plot with Rapunzel dying, I am a little disappointed she's going to live in the Disney take. It did read as very tragic, since she'd gone mad because of what the Witch did to her. I wonder if they'll still have "Witch's Lament" (I don't know the lyrics so I'm not sure if it's explicit about Rapunzel being dead and couldn't be used anyway)?

That song is still there!

PatrickvD wrote:It was expected that it would be Disney-fied. Otherwise it would not have been released under the Disney brand.

I for one applaud Disney adapting and creating musicals. It's a core business next to animation. Also, Sondheim is involved and he has approved.

I don't know if he has "approved" it so much as given in because he knows Disney will get its way, and if he didn't give in then it could cause problems for him in the industry.

In the interview, he said after being told that students in a teacher's school were upset to learn that they had performed a censored version of a show, that they were right to feel that way "But you have to explain to them that censorship is part of our puritanical ethics, and it's something that they're going to have to deal with. There has to be a point at which you don't compromise anymore, but that may mean that you won't get anyone to sell your painting or perform your musical. You have to deal with reality."

He also said both he and Lapine fought the changes, but Disney did not budge and they did some rewrites themselves. I would imagine they would rather do as much of the rewriting they could to at least keep some integrity.

rubyslippers wrote:In the interview, he said after being told that students in a teacher's school were upset to learn that they had performed a censored version of a show, that they were right to feel that way "But you have to explain to them that censorship is part of our puritanical ethics, and it's something that they're going to have to deal with. There has to be a point at which you don't compromise anymore, but that may mean that you won't get anyone to sell your painting or perform your musical. You have to deal with reality."

That quote really struck home. I don't like how artistic integrity is ignored because deviation isn't "safe." But that's the business: money is top priority. You can either stay in and hope for the best, or get out and get an office job.

Plus this probably means we won't see Johnny Depp's "goods" in the wolf costume.

Warm Regards wrote:

rubyslippers wrote:In the interview, he said after being told that students in a teacher's school were upset to learn that they had performed a censored version of a show, that they were right to feel that way "But you have to explain to them that censorship is part of our puritanical ethics, and it's something that they're going to have to deal with. There has to be a point at which you don't compromise anymore, but that may mean that you won't get anyone to sell your painting or perform your musical. You have to deal with reality."

That quote really struck home. I don't like how artistic integrity is ignored because deviation isn't "safe." But that's the business: money is top priority. You can either stay in and hope for the best, or get out and get an office job.

Plus this probably means we won't see Johnny Depp's "goods" in the wolf costume.

It's unfortunate, and it's a shame Disney wasn't willing to stick closer to the original show, especially since the death or affair doesn't need to be graphic or explicit.

Considering the Baker's wife off-screen encounter with the prince is apparently downgraded to a kiss, I think it's safe to say that Depp's wolf won't be "on display."

Old Fish Tale wrote:The adultery is still there: they kiss repeatedly.

I'm not sure if the leaked script is going to be like the final film, though, from what Sondheim said...

Disney's Divinity wrote:

Disney Duster wrote: After Bernadette Peters left the show, Phylicia Rashād, the mother from The Cosby Show, was the Witch.

Oh, I bet she was really good, too! I read about Imelda Staunton as the Baker's Wife, but that seems like a strange choice (although she is a good actress). Too bad Vanessa Williams wasn't that good. I like her more as a personality than an actress/singer, tbh.

I agree, I really like the logo. You and pinkrenata are probably right about the plot change, since fairy tales are supposed to be about "lessons." I have to admit, reading the plot with Rapunzel dying, I am a little disappointed she's going to live in the Disney take. It did read as very tragic, since she'd gone mad because of what the Witch did to her. I wonder if they'll still have "Witch's Lament" (I don't know the lyrics so I'm not sure if it's explicit about Rapunzel being dead and couldn't be used anyway)?

I loved Vanessa's singing and she did some funny things but it was probably how she was directed. I agree with the rest of your post except, once again, I'm not sure if "Witch's Lament" will be in the film like the leaked script said. I had read the leaked script didn't have the "Lament", though? But anyway it doesn't refer to what exactly happens to Rapunzel, but rather stuff like "this is the world I meant" and "now you know what's out there in the world" referring to what horribly happened to her since she didn't stay in the tower, "safe behind walls" like the Witch also sings.

DancingCrab wrote:Stephen says in the article that "Any Moment" will probably get cut. He said nothing about "Moments in the Woods", though I can understand the confusion.

Yea, I just don't see how you could have one without the other though, so I hope it's not both were cut.

Atlantica wrote:I think if they've gone to Stephen, and he's reworked it himself, I have to give credence to it for the time being. He's extremely vocal about if he hates something, and I would hope this would be no different. Or unless he loathes it and Disney have him under a golden handcuff deal?

I am indeed worried about that.