DVDizzy Forum

Sotiris wrote:

Disney's Divinity wrote:The dancing picture definitely reminds me of Cinderella. But the images actually remind me more of Sleeping Beauty, overall.

Yeah. The influences from Mary Blair and Eyvind Earle are quite prevalent.

Musical Master wrote:Already this movie might be the best looking CGI Disney film when it comes to the art direction. It's already better than the art direction of Tangled and Wreck it Ralph and I really like those movies.

Giaimo has certainly outdone himself. Although to be fair, the setting does lend itself for a more lush art direction than that of Tangled or Wreck-It Ralph.

Honestly, all this incredible concept art (and fanart) has made me sad Frozen didn't continue as a hand-drawn project. The medium could have made the comeback it deserved with this film. The story and the setting would have really suited the medium. And while CG animation has really progressed, character designs do not translate as well in CG, and CG animation has yet to achieve the more organic, intimate look and feel hand-drawn animation can offer. The Frozen characters in 2D look immensely better than any of their CG counterparts. Jin Kim's drawings beg to be animated. If only the Iger/Lasseter administration had given the medium another chance and left the film in 2D as originally envisioned, Frozen could have pushed the artistic boundaries of 2D animation and prove the profitability of the medium at the box office.

Just let time and fate unfold Sotiris, as soon Disney finds new artists who can create hand drawn animation in their own way much like how Keane, Deja, Henn, Goldberg and many more have done in the past. The medium will certainly return and people will appreciate it again. As for the character designs themselves in CG, I don't know they look good to me. I think again, times have changed; if Disney wanted to keep it a hand drawn project they could've but after when Tangled did so well, I guess they changed their minds.

I also have noticed a bit of Eyvind Earle's infulence in Frozen as well. Why is Giaimo a better art director for a CGI film than David Goetz did for Tangled? I really liked Goetz's work in that film to! (Giaimo did Pocahontas while Goetz did Hunchback and I love the look on both films).

Another thing, when it comes to Tangled I think it's setting also could've been more lush too if they kept some of Lisa Keene's work on it like the trees to have a painterly feeling to them. Of course this was during the time when Tangled originally was supposed to look like an oil painting but I guess budgets and changing directors might of had something to do with it.

Musical Master wrote:Why is Giaimo a better art director for a CGI film than David Goetz did for Tangled? I really liked Goetz's work in that film too!

I didn't say that. Goetz is really great too. His work on Hunchback is incredible. Art directors can't do whatever they want. They have to execute the directors' vision for said film. Tangled could had been much more artistic if the directors wanted that but they chose a much simpler visual approach.

Musical Master wrote:Another thing, when it comes to Tangled I think its setting also could've been more lush too if they kept some of Lisa Keene's work on it like the trees to have a painterly feeling to them. Of course this was during the time when Tangled originally was supposed to look like an oil painting but I guess budgets and changing directors might of had something to do with it.

It had nothing to do with budget. Lasseter simply decided the painterly look would be too distracting for audiences and axed it. Most of Lisa Keene's work was for Glen Keane's version of Rapunzel and was indeed beautiful but that approach was abandoned. I really wish we had gotten Glen Keane's version of Rapunzel instead of the derivative, safe, uninspired film that was Tangled. Glen's version was far more interesting and ambitious both in terms of storytelling and visuals. Another wasted opportunity for greatness.

Sotiris wrote:

Musical Master wrote:Why is Giaimo a better art director for a CGI film than David Goetz did for Tangled? I really liked Goetz's work in that film too!

I didn't say that. Goetz is really great too. His work on Hunchback is incredible. Art directors can't do whatever they want. They have to execute the directors' vision for said film. Tangled could had been much more artistic if the directors wanted that but they chose a much simpler visual approach.

Musical Master wrote:Another thing, when it comes to Tangled I think its setting also could've been more lush too if they kept some of Lisa Keene's work on it like the trees to have a painterly feeling to them. Of course this was during the time when Tangled originally was supposed to look like an oil painting but I guess budgets and changing directors might of had something to do with it.

It had nothing to do with budget. Lasseter simply decided the painterly look would be too distracting for audiences and axed it. Most of Lisa Keene's work was for Glen Keane's version of Rapunzel and was indeed beautiful but that approach was abandoned. I really wish we had gotten Glen Keane's version of Rapunzel instead of the derivative, safe, uninspired film that was Tangled. Glen's version was far more interesting and ambitious both in terms of storytelling and visuals. Another wasted opportunity for greatness.

Sotiris, that was a question I asked myself. It wasn't anything that you said at all.

And thanks for clearing up about the whole reason why the painterly quality was not present in Tangled and I do agree that Glen Keane's version of Rapunzel would've been interesting to watch but I really like the final film though.

Sotiris wrote:

Musical Master wrote:Why is Giaimo a better art director for a CGI film than David Goetz did for Tangled? I really liked Goetz's work in that film too!

I didn't say that. Goetz is really great too. His work on Hunchback is incredible. Art directors can't do whatever they want. They have to execute the directors' vision for said film. Tangled could had been much more artistic if the directors wanted that but they chose a much simpler visual approach.

Musical Master wrote:Another thing, when it comes to Tangled I think its setting also could've been more lush too if they kept some of Lisa Keene's work on it like the trees to have a painterly feeling to them. Of course this was during the time when Tangled originally was supposed to look like an oil painting but I guess budgets and changing directors might of had something to do with it.

It had nothing to do with budget. Lasseter simply decided the painterly look would be too distracting for audiences and axed it. Most of Lisa Keene's work was for Glen Keane's version of Rapunzel and was indeed beautiful but that approach was abandoned. I really wish we had gotten Glen Keane's version of Rapunzel instead of the derivative, safe, uninspired film that was Tangled. Glen's version was far more interesting and ambitious both in terms of storytelling and visuals. Another wasted opportunity for greatness.

This is really getting into sour grape territories. I mean remember that Tangled was a Shrek like comedy called "Rapunzel Unbraided". Tangled in my opinion really is a good film that really harkens back to the films of the 90's. I don't know about you but I think maybe that these current Disney GGI films have been really bringing back a lot of heart of the Disney essence.

jazzflower92 wrote:

Sotiris wrote: I didn't say that. Goetz is really great too. His work on Hunchback is incredible. Art directors can't do whatever they want. They have to execute the directors' vision for said film. Tangled could had been much more artistic if the directors wanted that but they chose a much simpler visual approach.
It had nothing to do with budget. Lasseter simply decided the painterly look would be too distracting for audiences and axed it. Most of Lisa Keene's work was for Glen Keane's version of Rapunzel and was indeed beautiful but that approach was abandoned. I really wish we had gotten Glen Keane's version of Rapunzel instead of the derivative, safe, uninspired film that was Tangled. Glen's version was far more interesting and ambitious both in terms of storytelling and visuals. Another wasted opportunity for greatness.

This is really getting into sour grape territories. I mean remember that Tangled was a Shrek like comedy called "Rapunzel Unbraided".

Oh god... That would've been the worst thing ever. Whenever I read about it I get sick..

At least in the final film Keane did keep the luscious hair idea.

I couldn't agree more about your thoughts on Tangled jazzflower.

Back in the Eisner decade, the Snow Queen originally was going to be about a monarch that froze each suitor that came to her until one day she finally meets a guy that wins her over. As much as people are complaining now about the changes done to the Snow Queen I have a feeling they would form an angry mob if that previous version did get made.

jazzflower92 wrote:Calling Tangled uninspired really seems to be a bit bashing of the film.

It's just my opinion, you know. And it's not bashing, it's criticism.

jazzflower92 wrote:I mean remember that Tangled was a Shrek like comedy called "Rapunzel Unbraided".

That was very early on when Stainton was in charge of the studio. Then it became a more mature, straightforward adaptation before getting retooled again and becoming Tangled.

Actually Sotiris, I recently looked up some things and that storyline of Rapunzel Unbraided would've been THAT painterly looking movie that Lisa Keene did work on.

Sotiris wrote:

jazzflower92 wrote:Calling Tangled uninspired really seems to be a bit bashing of the film.

It's just my opinion, you know. And it's not bashing, it's criticism.

jazzflower92 wrote:I mean remember that Tangled was a Shrek like comedy called "Rapunzel Unbraided".

That was very early on when Stainton was in charge of the studio. Then it became a more mature, straightforward adaptation before getting retooled again and becoming Tangled.

Looking at it all Tangled seems to be the middle ground. Its light but at the same time it has some subtle forms of darkness. And by darkness I mean Mother Gothel and her emotional abuse of Rapunzel. In a way I see that Tangled does retain some of the spirit from Rapunzel in an interesting way. People have actually noted how this version of Rapunzel actually resembles a solar myth.

Musical Master wrote:Actually Sotiris, I recently looked up some things and that storyline of Rapunzel Unbraided would've been THAT painterly looking movie that Lisa Keene did work on.

Yes, but they were still planning to keep that look even after the the Unbraided story was scrapped. It wasn't until Keane left as the director and Howard/Greno came on board that the painterly approach was dropped.

Sotiris wrote:

Musical Master wrote:Actually Sotiris, I recently looked up some things and that storyline of Rapunzel Unbraided would've been THAT painterly looking movie that Lisa Keene did work on.

Yes, but they were still planning to keep that look even after the the Unbraided story was scrapped. It wasn't until Keane left as the director and Howard/Greno came on board that the painterly approach was dropped.

But wasn't that the time when Keane decided to use a DIFFERENT painting approach to the whole thing before he dropped out?

But to get back on topic, I find it interesting that Disney has hired Robert Lopez and his wife to work on the songs for Frozen because they have done some neat work together at Disney.

Sorry, but I've really got this off my chest. Can people please stop making their statements sound like it is final. Like staying CGI isn't as good as 2d animation and Frozen would look way better in 2d.
Different stories are best told with different mediums that help bring the best charm of a film to come out. I'm not saying 2d is bad. I love it and I definitely would love to see it come back. Countries like France and Japan and still doing them and are making beautiful films. It's really called art, and if you hold onto the past what is there to look for to the future?
CGI and 2d animation are both equally great mediums, people just prefer to use different mediums to tell a story.

TheBlibaBlob wrote:Sorry, but I've really got this off my chest. Can people please stop making their statements sound like it is final. Like staying CGI isn't as good as 2d animation and Frozen would look way better is 2d.
Different stories are best told with different mediums that help bring the best charm of a film to come out. I'm not saying 2d is bad. I love it and I definitely would love to see it come back. Countries like France and Japan and still doing them and are making beautiful films. It's really called art, and if you hold onto the past what is there to look for to the future?
CGI and 2d animation are both equally great mediums, people just prefer to use different mediums to tell a story.

Hi there welcome to the forums.

Plus I can agree with this, I don't even care if any Disney movie is CG or hand-drawn, as long as the story, characters, and atmopshere is really good I will watch it for what it is.

Can part V of this thread just be called "Sour Grapes" lol

I'm honestly grateful to have the tumblr side of the fandom, so much positive and creative energy. Aside from all the rampant Tangled on Ice trolls, of course

I look forward to this film being a critical and financial success. Proof's in the pudding.

I don't have "sour grapes" on anything lol

I can't wait for Frozen to come out and I wish Disney the best.

Can we, just for a second, appreciate the detail in Elsa's dress??

Patrick wrote:Can we, just for a second, appreciate the detail in Elsa's dress??

Okay now THAT is what I call pure detail.

There's a new Frozen game on their official website.

phan258 wrote:Can part V of this thread just be called "Sour Grapes" lol

I'm honestly grateful to have the tumblr side of the fandom, so much positive and creative energy. Aside from all the rampant Tangled on Ice trolls, of course

I look forward to this film being a critical and financial success. Proof's in the pudding.

This forum isn't exactly negative on the film anymore. And while I've been hugely excited for Frozen, be wary of overpraising a film that hasn't been released yet

Ahh Elsa's dress is so gorgeous...actually I find most of the clothing in this movie very lovely.

qindarka wrote:
This forum isn't exactly negative on the film anymore. And while I've been hugely excited for Frozen, be wary of overpraising a film that hasn't been released yet

Sorry, I understand where you're coming from, but I know my own mind. I'm mega pumped and going to stay that way. And seeing as I've already read basically the entire plot, the only way they could lose me now is by somehow totally dropping the ball on the songs...and I just don't see that happening.

I felt the same way about Tangled before it came out and that became my new all-time favorite after I saw it Frozen is looking to me to even one up that. I'm not saying everyone has to share my level of enthusiasm, but it's not done blindly--I know what I like.