DVDizzy Forum

Sotiris wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:22 pm

D82 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 6:46 pmI suspected Magnifico would probably use the magic orbs for himself to have more power or something, but I hadn't realized that would mean some people would lose their dreams forever. That's an interesting plot twist.

It certainly makes him being a villain more earned, but it doesn't change that fact he was driven to that by Asha's unreasonable actions. He's not wrong in his desire to only grant the wishes that are safe and benefit the kingdom. Granting everyone's wishes, including vague and unpredictable ones or selfish and immoral ones, would have led to chaos and destruction. I understand wanting him to have the arc of someone who starts with good intentions and eventually descends into madness, but he needed to have done something more morally reprehensible to warrant Asha's wish. Up to that point he doesn't, and the impetus for the film and Asha's journey does not seem justified.

That would all be okay if he was shown going the dark path reluctantly convinced he was doing the right thing. However, he's shown basking in his villainy and enjoying his powers which doesn't really mesh with how he's initially presented. Going from being cautious about which wishes should be fulfilled to a full-on villain in what will probably be 30 minutes seems like a 180 for the character. They wanted to have a classic Disney villain but also couldn't resist giving him some type of a relatable backstory.

Mooky wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:50 pmGoing from being cautious about which wishes should be fulfilled to a full-on villain in what will probably be 30 minutes seems like a 180 for the character.

I agree; it's just poor storytelling.

UmbrellaFish wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:21 pm That’s a good point, I really like “Shiny” but often forget about it in the context of Disney villain songs. Probably because Tamatoa is not the primary villain of the film, mainly just one in a chain of antagonists. I always thought that was very un-Disney, but reflecting on it, that’s essentially the same structure as Pinocchio.

Pinocchio, Dumbo, Alice in Wonderland, Lady and the Tramp, The Sword in the Stone.....

I think it was the Disney Renaissance that gave people the general idea of the "Disney Villain" and even having a romance. But Walt didn't have those in some of his films when he didn't think they were necessary. I mean if you look at his Big Five, the only one which had a "traditional" villain was Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, and only this and Bambi had romance.

Both the Disney Renaissance and the Disney Revival drove Disney into a corner where they can't really do anything creatively different otherwise it will deem the movie as "un-Disney", but I guess at least the Disney Renaissance was more creative in terms of tone, animation and design.

Farerb wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 12:24 amI think it was the Disney Renaissance that gave people the general idea of the "Disney Villain" and even having a romance. But Walt didn't have those in some of his films when he didn't think they were necessary.

It depended on what he was adapting. He wouldn't force romance or villains on stories they weren't included to begin with. But Walt was generally big on romance and traditional villains. That wasn't a Renaissance thing. Most of the films Disney makes nowadays are original stories and the decision not to include romance or villains is not based on the source material or the genre, but on things like social advocacy and storytelling trends. If there's one movie that should have included romance for example, it's Wish given it's supposed to feature the quintessential elements of a Disney fairytale. They didn't for political reasons.

Farerb wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 12:24 amBoth the Disney Renaissance and the Disney Revival drove Disney into a corner where they can't really do anything creatively different otherwise it will deem the movie as "un-Disney", but I guess at least the Disney Renaissance was more creative in terms of tone, animation and design.

I suppose it depends on what you consider "creatively different". Disney often tries to shake things up and break somewhat from the formula of the current era, but it's usually not well received.

Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syqFr82eM3Q

How was that video posted only 40-50 minutes ago but there are already comments on it that are a day old? Is there some shady tactic to ramp up views and comments?

Anyway, back to the song. It's not my idea of how a villain song should sound and the chorus is repetitive, but maybe I'll like it better when I hear it in full. It probably works within the context of the movie.

The full song:
https://twitter.com/MarcosVindsy/status ... DcoCg&s=19

Mooky wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:50 pm Going from being cautious about which wishes should be fulfilled to a full-on villain in what will probably be 30 minutes seems like a 180 for the character.

I feel like if you give a passing thought to how quickly someone like Elsa goes through her character arc, which in real life would take years of concentrated effort to unpack, then creating a believable internal journey for someone like Magnifico looks less daunting. Storytelling in general, and animation especially, traffic heavily in symbolism and hyperbole and imparting a lot in only a few storybeats. I think it's well within Disney's capability to create a compelling journey for Magnifico. Whether or not they actually pull it off remains to be seen.

Anyway, I actually thought that "This is the Thanks I Get" had a more interesting set of lyrics than "This Wish," which is promising. I was expecting the song to be more in the vein of "Be Prepared" or something, but I enjoyed the song as its own article.

After listening to the full song, I actually like it. Honestly, it's a much better villain song than "Mother Knows Best"; which has always bored me personally both in and out of context. The moment at the end of the song where King Magnifico's frustration finally erupts into a primal yell is honestly very bone-chilling and quite different than most of the villain songs from Disney. Not to mention that the lyrics can get very creative and fun which is a huge plus.

Sure, this song won't be everyone's cup of tea, but I think this song is fire!

The song reminds me of Yzma’s deleted song “Snuff Out the Light” from Kingdom of the Sun, mixed with Maui’s “You’re Welcome” from Moana. I might be able to like this song after multiple listens, but my first listen didn’t get me too excited for it.

I wasn't sure what to think of the preview of the song, it certainly didn't sound anything like how I imagined it would.

Listening to the full song a few times I do like it. I was hoping he would grow more frustrated as the song went on and I really like that scream at the end. The lyrics are fun and really show off Magnifico's personality. It's a bit of a bummer it's not the darker, dramatic song I was expecting but that's on me and my own expectations. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the visuals to pass final judgment on it.

Description of Asha from the Art book:

https://twitter.com/_princebambi/status ... edVuQ&s=19

Almofadinhas wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 12:08 pm I wasn't sure what to think of the preview of the song, it certainly didn't sound anything like how I imagined it would.

Listening to the full song a few times I do like it. I was hoping he would grow more frustrated as the song went on and I really like that scream at the end. The lyrics are fun and really show off Magnifico's personality. It's a bit of a bummer it's not the darker, dramatic song I was expecting but that's on me and my own expectations. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the visuals to pass final judgment on it.

From the new footage that came out today, it looks like it's going to be big and creative when it comes to the visuals.

Animation Compendia wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 11:46 am The song reminds me of Yzma’s deleted song “Snuff Out the Light” from Kingdom of the Sun, mixed with Maui’s “You’re Welcome” from Moana.

That's a dead-on observation! It does feel like "Snuff Out the Light" and "You're Welcome" got fused into one villain song. Which makes me wonder if Julia Michaels and Benjamin Rice looked at Sting's rejected songs from the scrapped "Kingdom of the Sun" film for inspiration. It isn't true of course, but it would be so funny if it was.

Animation Compendia wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 11:46 am The song reminds me of Yzma’s deleted song “Snuff Out the Light” from Kingdom of the Sun, mixed with Maui’s “You’re Welcome” from Moana. I might be able to like this song after multiple listens, but my first listen didn’t get me too excited for it.

I don't see the similarity to "Snuff Out the Light". That one was more theatrical, grander in scale, with a more cabaret sound. This one is much smaller in scope and has a very mid-'00s pop sound. Its sound is reminiscent of songs you would find in Disney Channel Original Movies. However, I do see the similarity to "You're Welcome", but not in terms of melody or sound. The rapping at the beginning and the "hook" of the song—the frequent repetition of the phrase 'this is the thanks I get'— makes believe the songwriters were trying to imitate LMM's style to a degree.

Farerb wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 12:42 pm Description of Asha from the Art book:

https://twitter.com/_princebambi/status ... edVuQ&s=19

Confirmation that Asha is a Rosanian (fake country) of a tuareg amazigh mother and a father born in the iberian peninsula but not specified his cultural background or phenotype/race, just that he was born there

I keep thinking he was sephardic jewish, since she calls her grandpa Saba

Farerb wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 12:42 pm Description of Asha from the Art book:

https://twitter.com/_princebambi/status ... edVuQ&s=19

Is there anywhere we can see the whole art book?

My Art of Wish book shipped so when I receive it, I'll let you guys know if there's anything super neat in it.

"This Is the Thanks I Get" is pretty catchy.

Well, regarding the new material released: The Japanese trailer was (as usual with Disney`s latest properties) superior to the Domestic one. I liked the new footage released. The new promotional snippets were fine. As for This is The Thanks I Get?, it`s catchy enough, but it`s not particularly great or memorable for a villain song. Chris Pine`s vocals are fine, but the song isn`t brooding or mesmerizing enough to be a truly outstanding.
As for the confirmation of Asha non-Royal status, it`s pretty remarkable how they dared to make her a commoner. After having milked the Princess staple for over a decade with the Revival timeline, it`s pretty remarkable how they dared to stray from making her one. Sure, it made sense with Encanto, due to how Mirabel wasn`t meant to be a Princess (as she came from a non-Royal country). But at least Asha could`ve been easily made into one. And despite of all this, I`m sure that she`ll get included into the Official Lineup afterwards.

Sotiris wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:22 pm I hated the segment where the camera does a 360°around Asha at the end of the song. Asha's exaggerated animation coupled with the over-the-top camera move makes that part feel insincere and performative.

Agreed. It looks contrived and overdone. I usually don`t mind such turnarounds, but it looks too exaggerated.

Sotiris wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:22 pmI was genuinely shocked listening to the snippet. The song sounds like something straight out of High School Musical.

Well, I thought the same of Love is An Open Door and Fixer Upper from Frozen

You know after listening to the snippet a couple times, the song of Chris Pine is growing on me.

I initally felt thrown off that it was more upbeat than I expected as I was wondering if it would be more like "Poor Unfortunate Souls", "Be Prepared," or "Friends On The Other Side." But, after remembering that classic Disney villain songs like "Gaston" had a more celebratory/party-like feel to it and other villain songs like "Mine, Mine, Mine" from "Pocahontas" and "Mother Knows Best" from "Tangled" had a more upbeat and/or grandiose feel to it, along with hearing people say the song was like "You're Welcome" from Moana (which was the best and most-liked and most-recited song of the movie) if Maui was the villain, I feel confident in saying this might be the best song in the movie that could be worthy of a challenge against "I'm Just Ken" for the Oscar for Best Original Song.

And I say that knowing the visuals show he'll have some form of agitation and frustration as he continues his song.

Also, I don't get the criticism that it feels like "Wish" is what happens when Disney hires pop stars to write songs rather than Broadway writers. I mean yes, Julia Michaels is a popstar, but Benjamin Rice, her partner on all the film's songs, is a Broadway writer.

I mean where was this criticism when Elton John and Tim Rice, both a pop superstar and Broadway songwriter, did the songs for The Lion King? It kinda seems unfair.

I mean, at the very least, we're getting something different in terms of the approach the songs and I feel like it should kind of be different so we don't get stuck in the past and in the words of Walt Disney, a lesson that was also the theme of "Meet the Robinsons" (a movie we should really look back on more fondly and for good reason these days), Keep Moving Forward.

I'll say this, I get where Sotiris is coming from with it sounding like something from High School Musical, because Chris Pine kinda sounds more Zac Effron-like than how he sang in "Dungeons and Dragons: Honor Among Theives" or "Into the Woods."

But I still thought the song was pretty catchy.

Heck, maybe it will end up being the breakout song of the movie since Wish co-writer Jennifer Lee teased it as "the anthem parents have been waiting for."

Sotiris wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:22 pm It's hand down the best trailer yet. The Japanese have done it again.

Yes, they always deliver.

Sotiris wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:22 pm It certainly makes him being a villain more earned, but it doesn't change that fact he was driven to that by Asha's unreasonable actions. He's not wrong in his desire to only grant the wishes that are safe and benefit the kingdom. Granting everyone's wishes, including vague and unpredictable ones or selfish and immoral ones, would have led to chaos and destruction. I understand wanting him to have the arc of someone who starts with good intentions and eventually descends into madness, but he needed to have done something more morally reprehensible to warrant Asha's wish. Up to that point he doesn't, and the impetus for the film and Asha's journey does not seem justified.

Well, the fact that people forget their dreams is the worst part, though according to the filmmakers, Magnifico also does that with good intentions, since he wants to avoid them the pain of possibly not getting their wishes granted, as that's something he experienced. Come to think of it, he has a very similar role to Abuela Alma in Encanto. And people give their wishes to him freely. They know what they're doing, and that only one person gets their wish each month, so they don't really feel like victims to me. That's why I said I felt the film didn't really have stakes. But we'll see; perhaps it will all make more sense in the film. Right now, though, it's true that I'm rooting a bit for Magnifico and it's very strange for me to side with the villain.

Mooky wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:47 am How was that video posted only 40-50 minutes ago but there are already comments on it that are a day old? Is there some shady tactic to ramp up views and comments?

That's because Disney released it as a live event or something like that (I'm not sure what it's called). People could already click on it, give comments, etc. since the day before, although only the trailer was playing then.

Animation Compendia wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 11:46 am The song reminds me of Yzma’s deleted song “Snuff Out the Light” from Kingdom of the Sun, mixed with Maui’s “You’re Welcome” from Moana. I might be able to like this song after multiple listens, but my first listen didn’t get me too excited for it.

Now that you mention it, the part where he says "I'd give the clothes off Benito's back..." does remind me a bit of "What has two thumbs and pulled up the sky..." from "You're Welcome." Both songs are also a bit similar thematically and are sung by characters who have a big ego. Perhaps, it's a bit of a nod to it. Speaking of that, could the line "Desperate times call for desperate measures" be a reference to Jafar's same line in Aladdin?

Now that I've listened to the full song, I kind of like that it's different from the typical villain song. I don't love it, but I don't hate it either.

Pokenonbinary wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:42 pm Confirmation that Asha is a Rosanian (fake country) of a tuareg amazigh mother and a father born in the iberian peninsula but not specified his cultural background or phenotype/race, just that he was born there

I keep thinking he was sephardic jewish, since she calls her grandpa Saba

You were right about Asha's mother's origin! They also mention Portugal, and not just Spain. Why didn't they cast any Portuguese or Brazilian voice actors then? It would've been nice to do that if the setting is meant to represent the country as well. The book also confirms the cloak Asha wears is a nod to Cinderella's Fairy Godmother.