DVDizzy Forum

If you really think RT's (and generally, professional) reviewers are objective, non-biased and neutral, well, I'd like to be that naïve and innocent again. It only means they have a formal education in film/writing (which doesn't say much in this day and age) and write reviews for money/living. I'm not denying their technical expertise in the slightest, but ultimately a quality/impact of a movie is dependent on end user's emotional and cognitive response to that movie.

Not to mention, critics are generally biased against certain directors and genres. Most often than not, a mediocre movie from a renowned director will get a pass ("fresh" mark), while a mediocre movie from a newcomer or a director against whom there's a bias (such as former music videos directors, children's films/animation directors, action and horror movies directors) will be proclaimed "rotten". Recent example: Prometheus. It got terrible early reviews at Cannes, general user comments find it to be below average, and yet it stands at 73% on RT, which no doubt can be attributed mostly to it being directed by Ridley Scott.

So, I don't understand why you give a flying f*ck about critics' reviews. Of course, it's always nice and reassuring when a professional critic agrees with your opinion, but in the end, their opinion is just that: an opinion (and you know what they say about opinions). Why should your assessment of a movie be any less important than that of a critic? If I had been listening to critics only, I would have missed on a lot of fine films.

Another thing, movies that are initially rated low by professionals later often tend to gain new appreciation and understanding or become cult classics, prompting reviewers to change their original negative mark to positive (i.e. The Rocky Horror Picture Show, Blade Runner, The Last Unicorn, Dark Crystal, Labyrinth, Pulp Fiction, The Shawshank Redemption). So in the great scheme of things, critics' reviews mean nothing. What matters in the end is audience's (your) emotional response to a movie, regardless of how bad or good it might be rated by critics.

Mooky wrote: - Elsa sure did learn to master her powers in a record time, didn't she? Some roughness to her creations would have been welcomed, they were way too polished (but I get it -- computer graphics, wow factor, etc.)

I love how people complain that they wanted more Elsa in the movie. Imagine Disney making a deleted scene like this:
The Interior Designer: Elsa decorates her castle!
or
The garden: Elsa discovers the inner Gardner in her, and decides on which flowers she wants to grow.

Many viewers who have seen Frozen have expressed how much they would have loved to have seen more of Elsa in the film.

The question then arises among some critics, however: what more of Elsa could the film have shown?

Much more.

First of all, the “Don’t feel, don’t feel” scene in Elsa’s ice palace, in which Elsa attempts to control her powers, after having Marshmallow eject Kristoff and Anna (for their own protection), needn’t have been so short.

That could have been an incredible sequence — indeed another song — a plaintive piece in which Elsa might have lamented that, “Yes, I am a monster after all,” as she believes herself to be.

Second, the creation of Olaf passes by in a flash during “Let It Go” — so brief a scene that many early viewers missed it altogether, when they were asked about it.

It barely exists, yet it illustrates the creation of one of the film’s most significant characters.

Instead of making it such a throwaway moment, consider this post (http://kioewen.tumblr.com/post/62748380019/), which describes how rich and moving that scene could have been, had it been expanded.

Scenes of Elsa in her creative mode could also have been poignant and bittersweet, because they could have been laced with a hint of sadness, showing Elsa experiencing joy in her isolation but a touch of grief as well, when she reflects on what she left behind.

Some critics complain that Elsa would have had no one to talk to. But why should that have been the case? Remember: this is a character who can create sentient life — conscious, intelligent life, which is a staggering idea.

Why should her creations have been restricted to Olaf and Marshmallow? Elsa’s sidekicks could have come in any form, from animal-like to nearly human.

She could have created sentient companions in her ice palace to whom she could have poured out her heart and bared her feelings, as Rapunzel does to her chameleon, or as the Beast, in Beauty and the Beast, does to his cursed household.

She could have told (or sung!) of the love that she was denied her whole life. Imagine Elsa recalling moments in her life in which she longed to make a connection (not just to Anna, but a romantic connection too – perhaps to a boy whom she once saw through a castle window, and whom she crushed on, but knew that she could never interact with, and what painful longing that caused her).

Imagine her singing of how dearly she always yearned to step outside in the wide world and escape her life of confinement, even start a family of her own — things that even the lowest commoner in her kingdom could do, but that she could not.

In Beauty and the Beast, some of the most powerful scenes in the entire film are those in which the Beast speaks to his cursed servants, lamenting that Belle is “so beautiful, and I’m— Well, look at me!”; or later, when he is by himself, ruing that “She will never see me as anything but a monster.”

Frozen could have given Elsa powerful scenes such as this.

Or think of the gripping scenes in the Superman films (be it Man of Steel or the Donner movies) in which Clark Kent has poignant exchanges with the ghost of his father, in his Fortress of Solitude.

Or consider similar scenes in the Dark Knight films, in which Bruce Wayne has exchanges with Alfred. These interactions are fascinating and revealing, fleshing out the characters.

Elsa could have fashioned a mentor-like sidekick with whom she could have interacted in such a manner.

But in Elsa’s case, such scenes would have been even more compelling because she would have been interacting with a sidekick that she herself created.

Thus, her sidekick would have been an externalization of her own inner struggle. She would have been speaking with a part of her own soul.

That has never been done before in a Disney film.

At some point, she could perhaps have realized that she had created a companion that echoed the sentiments of her own father – and we do know that the memory of her father weighs heavily on Elsa’s mind.

Or, Elsa could have created a sidekick with a sarcastic side, to play off of her seriousness. Or a creation that externalized the feelings of her own conscience.

Or it could even have been Olaf himself who stayed with Elsa, once Kristoff and Anna were chased away. Imagine how touching the scenes between the two of them would have been, with Olaf trying to console Elsa after she learns of the eternal winter that she has unwillingly caused. The scene in which Olaf first encounters his maker is deeply moving, filled with emotion for both of them. It passes by too soon.

And all of this is not even getting into what many of us always wished for most: an Elsa romantic plotline, in which she at last found her prince, finally achieving the romantic love that she has been denied her whole life.

Literally any further scenes involving Elsa could have been endlessly captivating, in lieu of countless moments in the film aren’t nearly as interesting. Alternatively, such scenes could have added some well-deserved minutes to the running time

Disney's Divinity wrote:Saw the film earlier. Overall, I left with more positive feelings than negative, but I’d rank this the lowest of the last 4 films (Frozen < Tangled <<< WIR < TP&TF). FathomsSpoilers below (not putting everything in black, so...)

I have to say my biggest disappointment was the music. I realize now I may have overrated Lopez because of Avenue Q (I kind of regret ordering the soundtrack the other day now, but I had faith I would enjoy it…), but maybe he just doesn’t work as well when he’s neutered like he is in a Disney film. Come to think of it, AQ doesn’t really have any ballads I love, and ballads are the soul of most (Disney) musicals. I was also surprised by how weak Menzel sounded on “Let It Go”; I wonder if she hemmed her voice so she didn’t sound too old for the part, but I was let down, regardless. Of the songs, hers is still the best, but I was left with the impression it could’ve been much better. Kristen Bell wasn’t a horrible singer, but “For the First Time in Forever” is a pale imitation of an “I Want” song. That’s another thing that’s bothering me--this and “Almost There” aren’t “I Want” songs, but more of “my dreams have come true.” The beginning song and scene strangely made me think of Pocahontas’ intro. “In Summer,” and “Love Is an Open Door” were serviceable, but honestly didn’t leave much mark on me now that I’m trying to recall them; I couldn’t recall the melody/lyrics of any song other than “Let It Go,” I’ll be honest. Overall, I don’t think this soundtrack is superior to Tangled or TP&TF. They’re all equally unremarkable.

As far as characters: Olaf didn’t bother me, actually, but I don’t think he works as well as Ray, for instance, and I still find his design awful. I liked Sven more, tbh. I was surprised the comedy was as charming and tasteful as it was, but I don’t think Olaf was introduced well. He just kind of walks into the story without much reason for being there. I also didn’t dislike Anna as I had expected. Her point of view was interesting, considering she was also damaged by how their parents decided to raise Elsa. I didn’t feel either way about Kristoff and I hated the trolls (especially their designs). Hans, Weselton, Elsa, and Oaken were all nice/entertaining characters, imo. However, I do feel Elsa was slightly undeveloped and she would’ve benefited from a bit more screen time. As far as the two sisters go, she definitely has more growth to go through, and we don’t really get that (the “Let It Go” independence moment feels artificial when she reverts back to being scared and hesitant of herself in every scene afterwards). I believe it’s this area that makes me put it below the other 3 above, because I didn’t gravitate towards any of the characters like I did Tiana/Naveen/Ray/Facilier/Vanellope/Rapunzel, although they had their moments and I didn’t hate any of them.

Also, I have to admit I really despise this trend of opening when the protagonists are children. I found the ending satisfying though (unlike a few people, apparently), but I thought Hans should’ve died. I don’t think we ever got to see Elsa realize onscreen that Hans was attempting to murder her, but I think he’s one of the few male villains Disney’s had I’ve enjoyed. I was actually unspoiled on that, surprisingly. I thought I knew everything that would happen in that moment, but I didn’t; for some reason, the spoilers from the books/promotion/etc. left me with the impression that he loved Anna and wanted to murder Elsa to protect her, whereas the film made it clear he had no feelings for her. The reveal scene was one of my favorites (even if the twist is a copout resolution of the love triangle). The overall film did resemble the movie’s history to me. It felt meandering and forced together, and of course the cast conveniently happened into the same place for most events. The “roadtrip” part of the film was more impressive than that found in TP&TF and Tangled, for me, I guess because the snow and ice gave more sight-seeing moments, which feel like a prerequisite for a roadtrip.

If I had to rank it, I’d give it 2.5 or 3 out of 5 stars, or 6/10. I didn’t have any special resonance with this film, but it wasn’t an awful film (like Chicken Little, Brother Bear, etc., for example). And just to be complete, even though my order changes sometimes… ( ):

1. Ariel
2. Tiana
3. Cinderella
4. Rapunzel
5. Pocahontas
6. Elsa
7. Anna
8. Mulan
9. Snow White
10. Belle
11. Aurora
12. Jasmine

qindarka wrote:How did you find the pacing? That's my one (big) worry about the film.

Also, did you happen to notice if Hans glanced at the chandelier before misdirecting the crossbow shot? Read this somewhere.

Lady Cluck wrote:

qindarka wrote:How did you find the pacing? That's my one (big) worry about the film.

Also, did you happen to notice if Hans glanced at the chandelier before misdirecting the crossbow shot? Read this somewhere.

I didn't have an issue with it. The "road trip" part really didn't feel that long to me but maybe I expected worse after reading people complaining about it. Anna, Kristoff, and even Olaf were all likable enough that I didn't mind it.

I'd give the beginning through "Let It Go" an A+ - honestly it was flawless.

From there up until the siege on Elsa's castle a B+ - enjoyable but nothing too extraordinary.

And the final act an A-. I actually liked the Hans reveal and the ending a lot, even the ice skating. It was nice and simple and stayed true to the sisterly bond theme. I can see why people felt it was rushed so that's why it's an A-, but it kept it exciting. Honestly a lot of Disney movies have really rushed endings if you think about it.

Overall, a solid A. The beginning and ending are both good enough that they make up for the weaker middle, which was still good in my opinion. My only regret is that I knew too much about the movie going in to it so a lot of the element of surprise was gone. I couldn't resist the spoilers though I know I'm going to enjoy it more on repeat viewings.

And again, I was really impressed by the songs, the well-rounded characters, and the amazing visuals. Some really beautiful scenes.

I didn't notice the chandelier thing.

PatrickvD wrote:With Frozen headed for a $90 million 5 day opening weekend I officially predict Giants to be fast tracked as the next princess fairytale musical.

The reason WDAS has set a bunch of empty release dates is because they were waiting to see if they would fast track a fairytale musical again based on Frozen's performance. And now that it's outselling Monsters University, they'll know what to do.

DisneyEra wrote:So true. With that kind of opening, Giants is all but officially announced. Still, I don't like Disney Animation choosing projects based on another film's BO numbers.

disneyprincess11 wrote:

DisneyEra wrote:So true. With that kind of opening, Giants is all but officially announced. Still, I don't like Disney Animation choosing projects based on another film's BO numbers.

Like someone said, if Frozen keeps doing great, I think we could still get Giants in 2016 to please people and probably earlier in March 2016. And like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if Giants is announced around mid-late next year because really, people will be/are dying for their next fairy tale.