DVDizzy Forum

2Disney4Ever wrote:

unprincess wrote: they're choosing more generalized interpretations of geographical/cultural regions because its easier. They dont have to worry about making sure they're 100% accurate to the specific region/culture and if they make a mistake or receive any criticism they can use "its a fictional place!" as an excuse.

today's Disney, unlike 90s Disney, is all about making animation production as easy as possible...

Yeah, that's part of what made Disney's animated features of the 90's so admirable, because the animators actually did research trips to all the different cultural settings of their films:

Africa (The Lion King)

Paris (Hunchback of Notre Dame)

Greece (Hercules)

China (Mulan)

Hawaii (Lilo & Stitch)

...and so on.

Lumping all of Africa together isn't exactly in line with that argument either

"Agrabah" is essentially the same thing as "Arendelle," except even more loose and stereotypical with the depiction of real culture (they did research trips for Frozen too by the way).

Yeah, the locales being vague and and somewhat loosely based on real countries/cultures isn't exactly exclusive to these newere films.

Honestly, I think it's often a good thing, because it's just really difficult to get all of the nuances and details right. I mean, it's admirable that the animation teams go and visit the various locales, but visiting a country or city for a few weeks (or even if it were a few months) really only allows them to scratch the surface in regards to understanding the culture and creating a convincing portrayal. As someone very familiar with Japan and the culture there, whenever I see Japan depicted in a Hollywood movie or TV show, I always find myself cringing because everything is just so off. That's why I was honestly pretty glad that they decided to fuse Tokyo with SF in BH6. Nothing felt off, because I knew it was a fictional locale simply pulling elements from two existing ones.

Not to mention that one particular 2D Renaissance film based on actual historical events that went completely off the rails in depicting the history, culture, and location accurately and respectfully.

I actually think Disney does more homework and makes efforts to do things like cast POC talent NOW than ever before, largely due to public pressure but still.

It does seem a little silly to be so specific about the actors and the music, only to then be completely vague with the setting.

Disney's Divinity wrote:It does seem a little silly to be so specific about the actors and the music, only to then be completely vague with the setting.

Another practice going back to the days of Walt.

As a kid, I never would've guessed that Pinocchio took place in Italy, or that Beauty and the Beast took place in France. They even hired a BRITISH actress to play the title character in Alice, only to tone down the "British" dialect.

In many of these cases, they try to "Americanize" the characters and obscure the specific setting, out of some kind of fear of being too "foreign".

Semaj wrote:In many of these cases, they try to "Americanize" the characters and obscure the specific setting, out of some kind of fear of being too "foreign".

This has always been a small pet peeve. Sidekicks and villains can have foreign accents while leads (for the most part) sound American.

I've always thought for instance that if they had John Smith speak with a British accent it would have enhanced the cultural differences between him and Pocahontas....but it was more important for him to be recognizable as Mel Gibson (which now, I'm sure Disney would like people to forget due to his downfall in Hollywood). I get it from their business perspective, and it only ever bothered me slightly.

As much as I was disappointed in Brave as a whole, it was refreshing to hear a Scottish princess speak with a thick Scottish accent.

DancingCrab wrote:I've always thought for instance that if they had John Smith speak with a British accent it would have enhanced the cultural differences between him and Pocahontas....

My girlfriend and I were just watching that the other night, and thought it would've been neat if we heard Pocahontas speak more in her Native tongue. Aside from two main phrases, she only does so briefly when she encounters John Smith.

yes its true, this isnt new to the current films...its always bothered me though... I hate that I cant figure exactly where and when Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Little Mermiad are set. Then the films where they give you an approximate time /location but there's a lot of details that dont fit (Jungle Book, Pinocchio, Aristocats Mulan, etc...)

but its bugs me more now with the current films, I guess b/c now theyre not even trying, they know its just the easier way to do it...

An odd thing about "Frozen" is how though the creators went to Norway for inspiration, they still claim the setting to be Scandinavian and not specificially Norwegian. Arendelle is a fictional place, yet the movie never really states that it's actually set in Norway. And for "Aladdin", although Agrabah is fictional, at least the movie makes it obvious that the setting is Arabian (I wonder why Disney never made the setting Chinese, since it is

Semaj wrote:As a kid, I never would've guessed that Pinocchio took place in Italy, or that Beauty and the Beast took place in France. They even hired a BRITISH actress to play the title character in Alice, only to tone down the "British" dialect.

At least "B&TB" really makes it clear to the viewer that the setting is French, with French phrases, accents and music. "Pinocchio" has at least a few Italian phrases, but not as much at it should've.

Do you think they really haven't got anyone for Moana yet ? I don't think they've ever gone this far before into production with no voice artist in the lead role ?

Atlantica wrote:Do you think they really haven't got anyone for Moana yet ? I don't think they've ever gone this far before into production with no voice artist in the lead role ?

We didn't get the official voice cast for Big Hero 6 until July 2014, just 4 months before the film was released. That was brutal.

Ah ok. Just feel like this wait has been so long ! I hope she has been picked and they're doing their usual filming them to get a bit of the essence of the voice artist into the character etc. Rather than being animated then voiced later.

DisneyFan09 wrote:An odd thing about "Frozen" is how though the creators went to Norway for inspiration, they still claim the setting to be Scandinavian and not specificially Norwegian. Arendelle is a fictional place, yet the movie never really states that it's actually set in Norway.

thats why what they're doing to the Norway pavilion at Epcot is so problematic. The whole point of World Showcase is to be an authentic representation of that particular country's culture but now they will just turn it into Arendelle and its version of "generic cartoon Scandinavia" and its going to give visitors a misleading view of the Norwegian culture. Though I get the feeling that for a while now Disney has been trying to move Epcot as a whole away from its original concept of being educational and more just another entertainment theme park. If the new "Norway" pavilion does really well I can see them doing the same thing to the other countries in WS, remaking them based more on animated films set in those countries. Which is a shame.

unprincess wrote:thats why what they're doing to the Norway pavilion at Epcot is so problematic. The whole point of World Showcase is to be an authentic representation of that particular country's culture but now they will just turn it into Arendelle and its version of "generic cartoon Scandinavia" and its going to give visitors a misleading view of the Norwegian culture. Though I get the feeling that for a while now Disney has been trying to move Epcot as a whole away from its original concept of being educational and more just another entertainment theme park. If the new "Norway" pavilion does really well I can see them doing the same thing to the other countries in WS, remaking them based more on animated films set in those countries. Which is a shame.

Agreed.

As an actual Norwegian myself, I thought "Frozen" was a wasted opportunity to depict all aspects of Norwegian culture. Especially with the music. With the exception of the bukkehorn, there was no real authentic Norwegian folk music. And why not exploring more of the sami culture? At least the original "Vuelie" could've translated well into the movie, since the original is rooted in a samii joik (but unfortunately was re-recorded). I'm not saying that the movie is disgracing Norwegian culture completely, but still.

I think people need to remember that Moana is essentially a fairy tale created by an American animation studio, and that the settings and eras of fairy tales tend to be somewhat vague and hazy and take a lot of artistic licence in order to detach themselves from our world. You wouldn't know which precise country Snow White is set in, for example; the most educated guess would be Germany simply based on the story's national origin. Even the kingdom in Beauty and the Beast or Arendelle in Frozen are essentially countries based on countries and not much more.

Of course, portraying a non-Western culture means that the filmmakers have likely consulted a lot of information and experts on Polynesia. Needless to say, the fact that these are people from one culture interpreting another inevitably means that the finished film shouldn't be taken as an actual cultural artefact but rather as an interpretation. Nobody will ever see Mulan as an accurate recreation of Ancient/Medieval China despite the crew going on a field trip, for example, just as much as some anime films don't completely accurately portray some European countries. It doesn't completely excuse any errors or misinterpretations, but it makes them seem more understandable. In any case, let's wait to see the finished film and/or see what experts on Polynesian culture have to say before we make a final decision and stop pretending to be world saviours of anthropology.

unprincess wrote:thats why what they're doing to the Norway pavilion at Epcot is so problematic. The whole point of World Showcase is to be an authentic representation of that particular country's culture but now they will just turn it into Arendelle and its version of "generic cartoon Scandinavia" and its going to give visitors a misleading view of the Norwegian culture.

Going back to cultures interpreting other cultures, I wouldn't take anything in World Showcase as truly authentic. Looking at the United Kingdom pavilion as a British citizen leaves me speechless as to how odd it all looks.

All this needs is "It's not 2D Animation" & it would be complete!

^ Or maybe "There's no painterly style animation, even though they said there would be painterly style animation!".

2Disney4Ever wrote:^ Or maybe "There's no painterly style animation, even though they said there would be painterly style animation!".

They've been saying that since Rapunzel.

That must be based on Tumblr, because I could only see a few of those being said here... (Although I'm sure we could have our own Bingo card.) She's actually one of the few female characters they've had recently that don't look like RapunzelAriel.

I'm surprised anyone's actually still holding on to the hope for "painterly" animation? That died with Glen Keane's "Rapunzel." Only the blandest designs and styles make it into Lasseter's films, so best to let it go.

To be honest, the characters Moana reminded me of the most in terms of look were Pocahontas and Nani from Lilo and Stitch. I don't know how she could be compared to Ariel or Rapunzel in terms of her look beyond the fact that they're all in the Disney style. And this forum seems so moderate compared to Tumblr, it seems (and better at spelling "hiatus").

Disney's Divinity wrote:I'm surprised anyone's actually still holding on to the hope for "painterly" animation? That died with Glen Keane's "Rapunzel." Only the blandest designs and styles make it into Lasseter's films, so best to let it go.

You just asked for for a sing-song!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU[/youtube]