DVDizzy Forum

I have such conflicted feelings about this whole thing... Obviously, I want it to be GREAT. I want it to be the best freaking show it can be. I want it to be such a success that interest in the film is rejuvenated and it can FINALLY be seen as the classic it truly is. Hunchback's moment is past due. But, I still want it to remain true to the spirit of the film. And not feel like it has to throw the film under the bus in order to succeed.

As for Frollo, I truly don't understand this...need to try and make him out to be some good person deep down, or whatever they're trying to do here. It CERTAINLY isn't true to the novel! Book Frollo was NOT a decent, good person. Yes, he raised Quasimodo and gave money to his mooch of a brother, Jehan. But, any man that would FORCE himself upon a woman, any man that would attempt to RAPE a woman just to achieve some sexual gratification...I'm sorry, you CANNOT romanticize that. And I see fans of the novel do it ALL THE TIME. It's disturbing. "But--but--he really LOVED her! He was SO tortured and conflicted!" No. Sorry. That's NOT love. Book Frollo would NEVER engage Esmeralda as an equal and try to 'discuss philosophy' with her. He was a sniveling little worm, who spent most of his time around her groveling on his knees and begging her to fuck him. I'm sorry, Book Frollo SUCKED. Disney Version ALL the way.

-I have a lot of feelings about this character, okay?

The Berlin version of the show is now on YouTube. With subtitles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP8cM6QRkA4

ProfessorRatigan wrote:And that's how I rank the 90s films.

OK, since you've showed me your ranking, I thought that I oughta show mine. I'm not crazy about rankings in general, considering how I find strenghts and flaws in each film, but here it goes.

1. "Hunchback". Yes, it's a flawed film and the flaws are hampering (for aforementioned reasons). But this film definitively deserves to the description as a masterpiece. The animation is brilliant and never before has a Disney cartoon looked more real. The music is amazing. But one of the reasons why I love it is because the characters are so compelling and evocative. Quasimodo is such an endearing, sweet character that is so easy to pit for. Esmeralda (despite being flawed) is the sexiest Disney heroine ever and actually has a personality and values. Phoebus is a witty and good hero, while Frollo is a fascinating villain. Djali and Clopin are both likeable in their own way. While the story may not be the strongest, I think "Hunchback" does take some innovations in many ways.
2. The Lion King. Before "Frozen" took it's spot, "The Lion King" was worthy of being Disney's biggest hit ever. It may not be perfection, but it's not far from it. It's epic, beautifully animated, engaging characters, great music and having maturity, depth and drama without being too gloomy. The humor may not be as successful, but at least it's not awful either.
3. Aladdin. A fun, enjoyable movie and a Musker/Clements movie at it's very best. Although the Genie steals the show, "Aladdin" has enough action, comedy and romance to engage. Aladdin is a fine hero and Jafar is a strong villain. The score is good and the animation is eye-candy.
4. Rescuers Down Under. I've always thought it was unfair that this one was overlooked and never got the attention that the other Renaissance films got. Although it's been a while since I saw the original, I think this sequel is an improvement. It's fun, engaging, full of action and comedy and greatly animated. The opening credits are amazing.
5. Pocahontas. While this film is seen as the black sheep of the Disney animation, I've always loved this film. First of all; The music is absolutely gorgeous, definitively one of Menken's best. The animation is incredible, especially the "acting" of the human characters and the colors are brilliant. Meeko is a lovely sidekick and the interactions between the animals are fun. While I don't mind the PC-avoiding of conflict, I do agree that the script could have been improved. I understand why people dislike it, yet I can't help liking it.
6. Tarzan. The deep canvas process really steals the show here. The songs by Phil Collins are really strong and the score is good, too. The opening is amazing and the film is quite solid and engaging enough with much action and comedy. While I'm not so fond of the grating comic characters and the traditional climax seems worn out, I think this movie is solid and good.
7. Hercules. I remember hating this movie when I saw it initially for many reasons. I thought it was dull, insipid, odd and frankly the Disney formula without the magic. However, fortunately this changed and I ended up loving this. The film is fun, enjoyable and has heart. While the story is predictable and adult Hercules is not particularly engaging, Megara and Hades steals the show. The animation is weak at times, but the film is engaging enough.
8. Beauty and the Beast. Frankly the most overrated of the Renaissance films and the fab four. I certainly don't hate it, but I don't worship it as the majority does. Belle is a good heroine, the enchanted objects are fine and the songs are great. However, I'm not so fond of Gaston. He's more of a stereotype which seems like a pathetic school bully and since the Beast serves as a semi-antagonist, I think Gaston should have been dropped out. Frankly, I think much of the humor is grating and juvenile. And the story drags at times.
9. Mulan. One of my least favorites of the 90's and ironically I had a huge obsession of Asian culture before this movie was released. It's not bad, but not great either. I'm in the minority, but I'm not fond of Jerry Goldsmith's score at all. I consider it to be weak and dull. Just two of the songs are good ("I'll Make a Man Out of You" and "Honor to Us All"), while the others are forgettable. The animation isn't as good as the other films. Mulan is a fine heroine and the script is quite solid. But ultimately I think "Mulan" lacks the magic and spark the best Disney films have. Mushu is okay, though.
10. Fantasia 2000. Watchable, but not particularly memorable or enchanting. The animation on some of the sequences are great, but it's not as good as the best parts of Walt's original "Fantasia".

I'm not taking "Mermaid" in this list, considering that it was released in 89.

The Hunchback of Notre Dame production at the La Jolla Playhouse was nominated for six Craig Noel Awards and won three (Featured Performance in a Musical for Patrick Page, Lighting Design, Scenic Design)

There will be revisions and changes to Hunchback for the Paper Mill Playhouse production.

Stephen Schwartz wrote:I'm working on a few things. Very front burner is the stage adaptation of (Disney's) "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" (with music by Alan Menken and lyrics by Schwartz), which recently had a very well-received run at the La Jolla Playhouse in California, and we are now preparing for a production back East at the Paper Mill Playhouse in New Jersey, and so we're making some changes and revisions, as one does, in that.

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/entertai ... /22360511/

What could they possibly revise and change?

... Oh, right. Like making it seem less like it's all about Frollo.

Sotiris wrote:There will be revisions and changes to Hunchback for the Paper Mill Playhouse production.

Stephen Schwartz wrote:I'm working on a few things. Very front burner is the stage adaptation of (Disney's) "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" (with music by Alan Menken and lyrics by Schwartz), which recently had a very well-received run at the La Jolla Playhouse in California, and we are now preparing for a production back East at the Paper Mill Playhouse in New Jersey, and so we're making some changes and revisions, as one does, in that.

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/entertai ... /22360511/

That's the one Prince Phillip Fan and I will be seeing.

Good! I saw a bootleg of it and wasn't impressed with it. Aside from the music, set, Ciara Renee, and Michael Arden (who will definitely win a Tony for his incredible performance), nothing stood out. The things that brought the show down was the community college-like direction, the constant narration, and the serious reducing of Clopin's role. This show needs to be a huge and epic, just like the novel. This felt like a community college.

disneyprincess11 wrote:Good! I saw a bootleg of it and wasn't impressed with it. Aside from the music, set, Ciara Renee, and Michael Arden (who will definitely win a Tony for his incredible performance), nothing stood out. The things that brought the show down was the community college-like direction, the constant narration, and the serious reducing of Clopin's role. This show needs to be a huge and epic, just like the novel. This felt like a community college.

I loved it

Annd I thought the focus on Frollo is phenomenal.
I loved that it wasn't so black and white. Every character had their ups and downs.

disneyprincess11 wrote:Good! I saw a bootleg of it and wasn't impressed with it. Aside from the music, set, Ciara Renee, and Michael Arden (who will definitely win a Tony for his incredible performance), nothing stood out. The things that brought the show down was the community college-like direction, the constant narration, and the serious reducing of Clopin's role. This show needs to be a huge and epic, just like the novel. This felt like a community college.

Might I ask where you saw it?

I have tickets to the March 12 performance of "Hunchback" at the Paper Mill Playhouse. I can't wait! I've been wanting to see this production since it debuted on the Berlin stage

megustajake wrote:I have tickets to the March 12 performance of "Hunchback" at the Paper Mill Playhouse. I can't wait! I've been wanting to see this production since it debuted on the Berlin stage

Let us know how it is!

Well, they have made changes to the ending of the show: Quasi DIES as well. They have added the original ending of the book by making the narrators mention the ending. (The audio is on Tumblr)

Wow. I'm not sure how ProfessorRatigan will feel, but I kind of like it...

disneyprincess11 wrote:Well, they have made changes to the ending of the show: Quasi DIES as well. They have added the original ending of the book by making the narrators mention the ending. (The audio is on Tumblr)

Great. I looked it up not too long ago and I felt my heart shatter into millions of pieces.

So, does Phoebus rape Esmeralda then, or....

Disney's Divinity wrote:Wow. I'm not sure how ProfessorRatigan will feel, but I kind of like it...

Well, I've resigned myself to the fact that they're wanting to be closer to the book than the film, so. Meh. I'd rather see this than a bunch of people 'hunching themselves' in solidarity with Quasimodo (which just sounds too cheesy and pretentious for my tastes).

Avaitor wrote:So, does Phoebus rape Esmeralda then, or....

Um, what? Phoebus never rapes Esmeralda. Never. She and Phoebus NEARLY have consensual sex before Frollo STABS him in a fit of jealousy. Honestly, the hatred of Book-Phoebus has gotten so far out of hand that outright lies about the character have permeated into the pop-culture-consciousness. It's FROLLO that tries to rape Esmeralda! (But you'll NEVER hear Book-Frollo apologists talk about THAT.)

Avaitor wrote:So, does Phoebus rape Esmeralda then, or....

Close: Frollo attempts to, but she saves herself by kicking him in the face

disneyprincess11 wrote:

Avaitor wrote:So, does Phoebus rape Esmeralda then, or....

Close: Frollo attempts to, but she saves herself by kicking him in the face

Oh, right. I didn't finish the book, and it's been a while since I've heard about what happens. Victor Hugo and I do NOT get along.

ProfessorRatigan wrote:Well, I've resigned myself to the fact that they're wanting to be closer to the book than the film, so. Meh. I'd rather see this than a bunch of people 'hunching themselves' in solidarity with Quasimodo (which just sounds too cheesy and pretentious for my tastes).

I can't blame you for that. I would've felt similarly if the Broadway version of The Little Mermaid had Ariel die at the end, I guess. (Although I think another part of me would be interested to see that take, too...)

Disney's Divinity wrote:

ProfessorRatigan wrote:Well, I've resigned myself to the fact that they're wanting to be closer to the book than the film, so. Meh. I'd rather see this than a bunch of people 'hunching themselves' in solidarity with Quasimodo (which just sounds too cheesy and pretentious for my tastes).

I can't blame you for that. I would've felt similarly if the Broadway version of The Little Mermaid had Ariel die at the end, I guess. (Although I think another part of me would be interested to see that take, too...)

This is the comparison I've been trying to make, but it's like people just don't...get it. Fine, they want Hugo's Hunchback. I want Disney's. It's Disney's version that I fell in love with first, and it's the Disney version that I want to see. If I wanted Hugo's Hunchback, I could read it! (Or see the French musical that ALL READY exists, and is faithful.) I don't see how Disney can win here, really. No matter what they do, the fact that they're Disney and 'daring' to touch a work as 'mature' and meaningful as Hugo's original novel is going to set an entire class of critics against them from the out-set. ESPECIALLY theater critics (are there any bitchier, nastier critics than those who critique theater?). So, they may as well do whatever they want. Be unafraid to piss off the book's defenders and go a little closer to the film. Now, this isn't to say I don't want ANY changes made... Expanding the storyline and giving the characters more depth, more songs, etc., is a very welcome departure. And toning the Gargoyles down--not removing them completely--could only work in the adaptation's favor. Regardless, more Menken/Schwartz is a good thing and getting a lot of those wonderful German songs FINALLY translated and sung in English is a blessing.

(Off-topic, but it's on my mind: concerning the Little Mermaid's ending... People who call the original Andersen tale a tragedy have obviously never read it, or only read a synopsis. True, the Mermaid kills herself to spare the Prince's life and turns into sea-foam, but, and this is the crucial part, in doing so, she redeems herself in the eyes of God and is granted an immortal soul. She GOES TO HEAVEN. When, before, she would have just ceased to exist, being a Mermaid and lacking a soul. That was meant to be the HAPPY ENDING. We all know how hung-up on Jesus Mr. Andersen was, after all. So, yeah. Only idiots, or those with poor reading comprehension, or BOTH, complain that the Disney version stripped the tale of its 'tragedy.' And this is what Ashman was referring to when he talked about the weird Christian elements in the tale during his 'lecture' which can be seen on the Little Mermaid Diamond Edition Blu-ray. Thank GOD Disney didn't go with that ending.)