DVDizzy Forum

I'm furious that The Jungle Book and The Rescuers didn't make it into the top ten. Hercules and Pocahontas are more popular than them?! Why?!

Disney Duster wrote:I think that people like you and Dr. Frankenollie think movies need more action, dialogue, and sure, I'll even use the word plot, to be considered "substance", but all substance must be is stuff that moves you or is necessary for some reason.

Plot is unimportant. It's how the story and characters are handled by the director, actors, et cetera that matters. Content, not technique; story, not plot; characterisation, not nice visuals. I like Bambi, and it is definitely not a 'bad' film, but it is my least favourite of the first five DACs; unlike its superior predessecors, it focuses on the visuals too much.

Actually, I would say that story doesn't really matter either. It's character that is the most important part of a story, and the story should be supported by the WANTS of the characters who inhabit it. After all, it was the great Kurt Vonnegut who wrote that in fiction, every character should want something, even if it's as simple as a glass of water. If we were going by story alone, or plot, then I think the best Disney film would be 101 Dalmatians. Sick rich **** kidnaps a butt-load of puppies to make a fur-coat and said puppy's parents embark on a mission to save them? On paper, it sounds a whole hell of a lot better than 'Vain Queen tries to kill her step-daughter,' or 'Elephant with big ears learns to overcome prejudice' but I think we could both say that, objectively, Snow White and Dumbo are BETTER films than Dalmatians, because they have more dynamic characters. The only character who really POPS in Dalmatians, is, of course, Cruella. Her wants really propel that film.

The Results - Part IV: Numbers 18-22

The last two that didn't make it to the Top 20!
22. Hercules (312)
21. Dumbo (314)

And then now...we have the first three that made it into the Top 20 2012!

20. (320)
19. (333)
18. (354)

A few "droppers" from the previous list. The list HAS changed, so whether or not Beauty And The Beast will be number 1 again, has yet to be seen. (although I already know )

Dumbo dropped 3 places from 18 to 21, just missing out on being in the top 20. Fresh in the Top 20 is Pocahontas, which wasn't in the previous one. I must say I'm surprised by all the "hate" the movie is getting. Tarzan remained its position at number 19, with around the same amount of points (363 then, 333 now). And finally Peter Pan....made a big drop from number 7 with 551 points to number 18 with 354 points. Strange. It made around the same drop The Jungle Book did. Did we change our opinion on these movies?

In six hours from now, I'll post numbers 10-17!
So come on people, make a guess which movies will be taking those spots!

Khonnor wrote:Still in the running:

01. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs 1937
02. Pinocchio 1940
03. Fantasia 1940
05. Bambi 1942
12. Cinderella 1950
13. Alice in Wonderland 1951
15. Lady and the Tramp 1955
16. Sleeping Beauty 1959
17. 101 Dalmatians 1961
28. The Little Mermaid 1989
30. Beauty and the Beast 1991
31. Aladdin 1992
32. The Lion King 1994
34. The Hunchback of Notre Dame 1996
36. Mulan 1998
42. Lilo & Stitch 2002
50. Tangled 2010

Wow, the top twenty reads more like a greatest hits list than I though it would. I thought we'd see at least one or two surprises on a fan forum. I guess I'm fairly surprised Hunchback made it in over Jungle Book.

It will be interesting to see where Tangled lands.

And thank Zeus that Hercules didn't make it into the top 20. It was always seems like everyone likes it and I'm just so "meeehhhh" about it.

ProfessorRatigan wrote:Actually, I would say that story doesn't really matter either. It's character that is the most important part of a story, and the story should be supported by the WANTS of the characters who inhabit it. After all, it was the great Kurt Vonnegut who wrote that in fiction, every character should want something, even if it's as simple as a glass of water.

Agreed; I'm irked that I didn't make that clear in my previous post. Characters should always drive the story.

Which brings me to my next point - when the DACs have arguable 'style over substance', sometimes I disregard this because with Disney, the animation, music and overall 'style' of the film often drive/show the characters' personalities, ambitions, etc.

Anyway...dammit, why didn't Dumbo make the top ten at the very least?

I can't wait to see the rest of the list.

Yeah, I love Dumbo. It was in my top ten, anyway. But sometimes, in the case of Bambi or Sleeping Beauty, I think people downplay the characters. I think Bambi has a very lively cast. And I think the Three Fairies in Sleeping Beauty all have fun, loveable personalities. And, while she's kind of lacking in motivation, Maleficent is still fun and bitchy and wonderful. Granted, those films don't have a FULL cast of characters each with unique wants, goals. I think that's what endears me to films like Hunchback, Beauty and the Beast and Great Mouse Detective: I love ALL the characters in those films. (Yes, even the Gargoyles ) I'm surprised that Pocahontas of all films is still doing so well. I was under the impression that even Disney fans disliked it.

The Results - Part V: Numbers 10-17

The beginning of the Top 10!

17. (400)
16. (410)
15. (411)
14. (422)
13. (467)
12. (484)
11. (485)
10. (496)

Nothing too shocking here, pretty much all these were in the previous Top 20, so let's see how they did now compared to then.
Alice went from 12 to 17, Bambi actually moved up a spot from 17 to 16. Two 'dog' movies follow: 101 Dalmatians went down from 14 to 15 and Lady And The Tramp went from 9 to 14. I'm surprised people enjoy Alice and 101 Dalmatians over Peter Pan and Jungle Book. I would have expected Lady to be in the Top 10, because it has a major release this month. Don't know why I'd expect that, but still. Cindy went from 8 to 13 and Lilo & Stitch did slighty better going from 15 to number 11, barely missing out on the Top 10.

The only "new" movie to be included in the Top 20 is Tangled. Though I'm not surprised Tangled is ranked so high, I did expect others to be ranked evenly high, Like Princess And The Frog or Brother Bear or Robinsons. Once again, not that those movies are my favorite as I fell asleep during Princess and haven't even seen Robinsons nor Bear yet. Just something I expected.

What I'm also surprised about is the love for Mulan. I haven't seen the movie yet and don't know much about it, but I was surprised to see it on so many people's lists. I always compare it to Pocahontas (once again, I have not seen Mulan), and since Pocahontas isnt getting a lot of love, I didn't expect Mulan would. It didn't make it into the previous Top 20, but all of a sudden it's in this one and at number 12 as well!

In about twelve hours from now, I'll post numbers 7-9!
So come on people, make a guess which movies will be taking those spots!

Khonnor wrote:Still in the running:

01. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs 1937
02. Pinocchio 1940
03. Fantasia 1940
16. Sleeping Beauty 1959
28. The Little Mermaid 1989
30. Beauty and the Beast 1991
31. Aladdin 1992
32. The Lion King 1994
34. The Hunchback of Notre Dame 1996

I'm annoyed that there are people who think the likes of 101 Dalmatians and Cinderella are superior to Dumbo, The Jungle Book and The Great Mouse Detective, but I'm pleased that Lilo & Stitch and Tangled did fairly well. Lady and the Tramp should be higher, but I digress. I haven't seen Mulan properly for years...it's surprisingly high entry on this list makes me want to see it again.

Anyway, I predict (predict, not hope) that the top nine will be ordered as follows:

1. Beauty and the Beast
2. The Little Mermaid
3. Aladdin
4. The Lion King
5. Sleeping Beauty
6. Pinocchio
7. The Hunchback of Notre Dame
8. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
9. Fantasia

Tangled is number 10. I will take it, not bad at all, but Dumbo not in the top ten seriously

I think Peter Pan is better than 101 Dalmatians, Dumbo should be in the top 10, or at least the top 20, as should Cinderella, and at least Cinderella is way better than Mulan, and of course I also think it's better than Lilo & Stitch (I don't need any arguing I said "I think").

Dr Frankenollie wrote:unlike its superior predessecors, it focuses on the visuals too much.

I thought you thought it was the same as Fantasia, meaning Fantasia wouldn't be superior.

I don't see how a movie that's just supposed to tell a life about a dear was supposed to have more character and not be told so much by visuals. Maybe you and Goliath think substance needs to be something that makes you think about the characters when the movie's over. Bambi doesn't make me think about the characters as much as others. Instead, it makes me think about life. I feel I've been through something that's hit me hard. With it's story, some character, and most importantly all that it shows which perhaps cannot be so easily categorized. That's substance.

Disney Geek wrote:I'm sad about The Rescuers, but it didn't seem to be on a great number of lists

I hope that The Great Mouse Detective makes it into the top 20...

St.GeorgeMickeyMouseFlynn wrote:I'm betting the so-called Fab Four will all finish in the Top 5. Sadly

I think so, but you can't stop the unstoppable.

Welcome to the forums btw

Thanks, nice meet to you

Dr. Frankenollie wrote:Plot is unimportant

Huh? I thought you knew a thing or two about movie-making, but then I read this remark...

On the list so far: the low ranking of Disney's 70's and 80's films was to be expected and that the top 10 will be comprised of mainly 90's films also is no big surprise. I had expected Lilo & Stitch to make the top 10, given its frequent mentioning in the top 10 ranks in other people's lists.

Dr Frankenollie wrote:1. Beauty and the Beast
2. The Little Mermaid
3. Aladdin
4. The Lion King
5. Sleeping Beauty
6. Pinocchio
7. The Hunchback of Notre Dame
8. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
9. Fantasia

Close, but no cigar....

Or, actually...only one of those is in the right spot.

Khonnor wrote:

Dr Frankenollie wrote:1. Beauty and the Beast
2. The Little Mermaid
3. Aladdin
4. The Lion King
5. Sleeping Beauty
6. Pinocchio
7. The Hunchback of Notre Dame
8. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
9. Fantasia

Close, but no cigar....

Or, actually...only one of those is in the right spot.

The big question is which one?

Khonnor wrote:

Dr Frankenollie wrote:1. Beauty and the Beast
2. The Little Mermaid
3. Aladdin
4. The Lion King
5. Sleeping Beauty
6. Pinocchio
7. The Hunchback of Notre Dame
8. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
9. Fantasia

Close, but no cigar....

Or, actually...only one of those is in the right spot.

The Little Mermaid. That's my bet.

Super Aurora wrote:The Little Mermaid. That's my bet.

Of course not. It's Disney's most hughly, gigantic, horrific overrated movie that Ollie put on no.1.

Disney Duster wrote:Maybe you and Goliath [...]

Why do you keep dragging me into it?

Goliath wrote:

Super Aurora wrote:The Little Mermaid. That's my bet.

Of course not. It's Disney's most hughly, gigantic, horrific overrated movie that Ollie put on no.1.

I don't think BatB will rank no.1 this time.

As long as Snow White or The Lion King does not end up at #1, then I am content;)

I'm guessing The Little Mermaid will be #1, but that's just me.

I'm thinking Aladdin. I'd prefer Pinocchio or Beauty and the Beast though.