DVDizzy Forum

I know scary and violent are different things, I just don't understand how someone could class "Lilo & Stitch" as violent. What parts of the film did you find violent?

Katzenberg being fired had nothing to do with him failing to recreate the "Disney essence". Super Aurora summed it up perfectly while Eisner also thought Katzenberg was purposefully leaking stories about the studio to the media.

I still really don't understand what you regard as the Disney "way" for lack of a better word. It could be that we just simply have different opinions on the matter but by bringing back 2D hand-drawn animation, the current management couldn't have been truer to the heritage of the company and the studio.

A lot of it had to do with almost any alien scenes, and the way Stitch acted, and also some of how Lilo acted. I just had a very strong bad feeling about all of that when I first saw the film, and felt Walt would never approve. I was a little shocked it was in a Disney film.

Um, I wasn't saying Katzenburg found the essence, I was saying if he had such good success with the films he oversaw, and at least appeared to possibly have found the essence, why was he let go. And now I know.

DisneyAnimation88 wrote:I still really don't understand what you regard as the Disney "way" for lack of a better word.

Don't worry, nobody around here does. We have figured out the story has to have something to do with magic or princesses, preferably combined, for it to be acceptable to Disney Duster.

I think I have to agree with that summary now. I've tried to reason with Disney Duster but, to their credit, he/she obviously has very definite opinions on what Disney should be doing. Perhaps Lasseter is the wrong person to be in charge at the moment?

DisneyAnimation88 wrote:

I think I have to agree with that summary now. I've tried to reason with Disney Duster but, to their credit, he/she obviously has very definite opinions on what Disney should be doing. Perhaps Lasseter is the wrong person to be in charge at the moment?

Yeah, let Duster apply at Disney's!

Goliath wrote:

DisneyAnimation88 wrote:I still really don't understand what you regard as the Disney "way" for lack of a better word.

Don't worry, nobody around here does. We have figured out the story has to have something to do with magic or princesses, preferably combined, for it to be acceptable to Disney Duster.

And souls, don't forget that. A character has to have a soul to be in a Disney movie, whatever that might mean.

Well, if you really think Walt wanted souless characters in his movies...

PS. He never would.

[quote]Well, if you really think Walt wanted souless characters in his movies...

PS. He never would.[/quote]

How do you know that? Wasn't "Pinocchio" about a wooden puppet learning how to be a real boy, what it was like to have a soul and a conscience? Perhaps I'm wrong but that's still a very presumptious comment to make.

No, this shows you didn't understand what I was saying before...

He was given a soul/life by a magical figure who can also be seen as a spiritual figure. Magic was often a metaphor for something holy. Wishes were like prayers.

Even if you don't believe that, Pinocchio was given a soul, the gift of real life. But he wanted to become a real boy, as in a real body, flesh and blood.

Since no one has to be brave, truthful, or unselfish to be real soul filled living people, those things are a metaphor for being a "real man" or a good person.

I still don't really understand

Is this from a book of animation or are they just your personal opinions? I'm only asking because I've never heard a viewpoint like this before. I know there's lots of magic in Disney films but I've never heard it as contectualized as you put it.

Disney Duster wrote: Magic was often a metaphor for something holy.

It was also considered a metaphor for something satanic too.

DisneyAnimation88 wrote:Is this from a book of animation or are they just your personal opinions?

I wager it's an opinion, and not something from a book. Unless Disney Duster took Dr. Jennifer Porter's course Religion and Disney. But I don't think he's enrolled at Memorial University of Newfoundland.

albert

Super Aurora wrote:

Disney Duster wrote: Magic was often a metaphor for something holy.

It was also considered a metaphor for something satanic too.

I think Disney uses it across a Christian spectrum though. Of course, there's Ursula, Maleficent, etc. But people have often commented on the fairies from Disney's films as being "witches," when their depictions portray them as anything but. Instead, Disney gives them an "angelic" aspect--Flora, Fauna, and Merriweather appear from a ray of light at the beginning of SB, and Cinderella's godmother and the Blue Fairy both come into play because of someone's "faith."

I always find it bizarre that people try to twist these characters into "Disney portraying evil as good," when they are clearly depicted in many ways like angels or a heavenly presence (to suit the Christian majority both making and watching the films).

Mama Odie from TP&TF is a different case, as they specifically refer to her as a Voodoo "queen" priestess. That was really the only flaw I found with her in TP&TF--that necessity to put a clear label on her--but I think they just meant to be fair to the Voodoo religion, and show that not all Voodoo practitioners are evil and greedy like Dr. Facilier.

As for the "Disney was sexist" thing, I'm not sure if the idea of a "token woman" applies here. Why would Disney need a token woman animator in a time where practically everyone in the public and the business endorsed sexism/racism/etc.? Women's rights didn't really pick up pace until around the 60s. In Walt's time, most women weren't really too encouraged to work at all (except during war-time). And those that did were conditioned to mostly seek jobs as secretaries, teachers, nurses, etc.

I'm not saying that Disney was entirely free of sexism, racism, and so on, just that he seems to me to have at least been somewhat ahead of his time in that regard.

Super Aurora wrote:It was also considered a metaphor for something satanic too.

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Disney's Divinity wrote:As for the "Disney was sexist" thing, I'm not sure if the idea of a "token woman" applies here. Why would Disney need a token woman animator in a time where practically everyone in the public and the business endorsed sexism/racism/etc.? Women's rights didn't really pick up pace until around the 60s. In Walt's time, most women weren't really too encouraged to work at all (except during war-time). And those that did were conditioned to mostly seek jobs as secretaries, teachers, nurses, etc.

I used that term not to imply that Disney hired them just to have a few women working there, but to show that having one or two women as animators doesn't really 'count' when you're duscussing something as heavy as sexism. Which, again, I didn't say he was. But DD's reason was faulty.

That video was very disturbing, Goliath.

TheSequelOfDisney wrote:That video was very disturbing, Goliath.

If you think *that's* disturbing, don't ever watch the actual Excorcist!

Goliath wrote:

TheSequelOfDisney wrote:That video was very disturbing, Goliath.

If you think *that's* disturbing, don't ever watch the actual Excorcist!

Oh, don't worry, I already tried watching that. I wasn't able to sleep in my own room for awhile and then when I did get back to my room I had to make sure the light was on and that the door was open so that I could see if anyone was going to come into my room. That film is a very traumatic childhood experience that I would prefer not to talk about.

Disney Duster wrote:No, this shows you didn't understand what I was saying before...

He was given a soul/life by a magical figure who can also be seen as a spiritual figure. Magic was often a metaphor for something holy. Wishes were like prayers.

Even if you don't believe that, Pinocchio was given a soul, the gift of real life. But he wanted to become a real boy, as in a real body, flesh and blood.

Since no one has to be brave, truthful, or unselfish to be real sould filled living people, those things are a metaphor for being a "real man" or a good person.

Well said.

Disney's Divinity wrote: I think Disney uses it across a Christian spectrum though.

Christianity is overrated. Give me a Disney movie that will have Buddhism or Shinto theme.

Disney's Divinity wrote:But people have often commented on the fairies from Disney's films as being "witches," when their depictions portray them as anything but. Instead, Disney gives them an "angelic" aspect--Flora, Fauna, and Merriweather appear from a ray of light at the beginning of SB,

That's cause they are evil witches. Those hags deserve be burned.

Disney's Divinity wrote:I always find it bizarre that people try to twist these characters into "Disney portraying evil as good," when they are clearly depicted in many ways like angels or a heavenly presence (to suit the Christian majority both making and watching the films).

christian majority... my ass. Again, give me a Disney movie that doesn't always rely on christian theme.

Goliath wrote: <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/PW2Gh ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/PW2Gh ... 1&hl=nl_NL" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Background music kicks ass. Sounds familiar too.

Goliath wrote:

If you think *that's* disturbing, don't ever watch the actual Excorcist!

That movie was awesome. It's AWESOME when you have a loli that look like Chucky's twin sister and burp out a demonic male voice and can twist it's head around like a goddamn owl.