DVDizzy Forum

In case it hasn't been posted before:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/theatre/wha ... came-thro/

Alan Menken and Howard Ashman had been working on another film when Ashman died: a Thief of Baghdad story based on a tale from The Arabian Nights. Despite having been started at the same time as The Little Mermaid, Aladdin required more tinkering, and by the time The Little Mermaid was released, Aladdin was still embryonic.

It was conceived as a Bing Crosby/Bob Hope-style buddy picture, and Aladdin had four sidekicks. ‘I love Fats Waller, and that helped define the tone – 1940s Harlem jazz,’ Menken says. The Genie was described as black, larger than life and wearing an earring. ‘A lot of what we were doing was kind of edgy and made Disney a little nervous,’ he continues.

‘We thought we’d finished writing the score, but unknown to us there were major story changes. At that point Howard was really ill in a hospital bed, and they also kept me out of the loop.

'There was a day when they decided to scrap the treatment of Aladdin and start again. The whole film went back into development; songs were cut; the hero’s mother was cut; the sidekicks were cut – they took a whole new approach.’

I imagine the situation was very hard for Menken with Ashman dying. He was probably saddened not to be able to preserve Ashman's last work in the finished film.

That's really interesting. I think we got the better version because I wouldn't want Jazz with an Arabian fairy tale. This is not The Princess and the Frog.

The Aladdin we got is still one of my Disney favorites form the 90s, but it would still have been interesting to know more details about the original outline. I'm sure Alan Menken would have appreciated it too.
And I'm curious about the score. There are lots of songs and music created for movies (some of which are never made) that we will never hear. Jeffrey Katzenberg wanted to cut out "Part of Your World" from The Little Mermaid, and so it would probably just have collected dust today in some archive if he had it his way: "During an early test screening, a kid dropped his box of popcorn in the middle of the song, and was apparently much more focused on cleaning it up than he was an Ariel’s big number. Studio Head Jeffrey Katzenberg took this as a sign that the number was too slow and wouldn’t hold the attention of the largely child audience the movie was hoping to draw."

All of Aladdin's deleted songs are available to listen, plus they talked about the earlier draft of the film in various bonus content. I'd say that it changed because of the success of The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast. It was supposed to be more adventure driven than romance driven, they had written a song for Jasmine but decided not to use it and that Jasmine wouldn't sing, which was changed later when they decided that they want a duet between Aladdin and Jasmine. Anyway, Ashman and Menken worked on Aladdin in its earlier stages, then went to work on Beauty and the Beast and unfortunately Ashman died and Menken return to work on Aladdin with Tim Rice. As much as it is unfortunate films get changed all the time and they shouldn't have kept going with a version that probably doesn't work because of Ashman's songs (and I'm pretty sure Ashman would have understood that since he is a producer himself), we don't even know if Ashman himself would have kept the songs he had written instead of writing new ones.

Anyway, these were the songs he had written and were deleted:

• 4 reprises of Arabian Nights (the final one was featured in Aladdin and the King of Thieves).
• Humiliate the Boy.
• Call Me a Princess.
• Babkak, Omar, Aladdin, Kassim.
• Proud of your Boy.
• How Quick They Forget.
• High Adventure.

I have never seen any bonus material regarding Aladdin, so it was new to me.

Are the songs really from the first movie that was never made? Checked on Youtube, and Humiliate the Boy looks like something from the final version that didn't get there. Either way, I assumed songs were just like concept art, test footage and so on that the animators and artists are not allow to share on the net.

Yes, movies that someone feels "doesn't work" or that should be made another way ends up being different. A couple of less successful examples; Chris Sander's American Dog that was turned into Bolt, or how everyone were messing with Super Mario Bros. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:I have never seen any bonus material regarding Aladdin, so it was new to me.

Are the songs really from the first movie that was never made? Checked on Youtube, and Humiliate the Boy looks like something from the final version that didn't get there. Either way, I assumed songs were just like concept art, test footage and so on that the animators and artists are not allow to share on the net.

Yes, movies that someone feels "doesn't work" or that should be made another way ends up being different. A couple of less successful examples; Chris Sander's American Dog that was turned into Bolt, or how everyone were messing with Super Mario Bros. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

Humiliate the Boy was written by Ashman but I don't think it was for his original vision of the film. It was a version of Aladdin where the genie could grant infinite wishes.

https://lostmediawiki.com/Aladdin_(foun ... ilm;_1988)
This is a great article that goes into what Ashman's Aladdin would have been like. To be honest, as much as I love Howard Ashman and his work, I do think I prefer the final product of Aladdin over what we nearly could have gotten. In part because I really love Jasmine and she basically would have been a completely different character and not even end up with Aladdin. The whole premise of Aladdin is a rags to riches story (like Cinderella) and him marrying a princess so if he doesn't even do that, that's too far off from the story for my taste.

In sweden Jasime and Meg have the same voices and she is great

Shr also took over the role of Ariel and sounds a lot like Jodi Benson

Interesting... I always think of Jasmine's voice being rather high and Megara's low... Hard to think of them being voiced by the same person.

Voice of Jafar, Jonathan Freeman, Shares 6 Cool Facts During WDFM Event
https://www.laughingplace.com/w/article ... urs-recap/

‘Aladdin’ Director Remembers How Robin Williams Changed Feature Animation
https://variety.com/2021/film/spotlight ... 234893550/

Howard Ashman's 'Aladdin' Would Have Been a Totally Different Magic Carpet Ride
https://collider.com/aladdin-howard-ashman-version/

From the Disney Princess book:

"We were influenced by Roman Holiday, the Audrey Hepburn movie, says Musker. "Ted and Terry really helped craft Jasmine: They pushed her independence. They really wrote the scenes in the marketplace: Aladdin wants her to play along with the ruse to trick the irate fruit seller, and she falls right in with it. The result was a very screwball comedy moment in its own way. It relates to the work of William Wyler, Billy Wilder, and other filmmakers who found heroines that were smart and beautiful, but were frustrated with their situations and wanted to get out."

An Aladdin skit is on SNL tonight. Mostly about Aladdin feeling...physically inadequate... The funniest part was the opening (I'm paraphrasing, since I can't remember the exact words: "Aladdin, the '90s version when Aladdin was White.")

Disney's Divinity wrote:The funniest part was the opening (I'm paraphrasing, since I can't remember the exact words: "Aladdin, the '90s version when Aladdin was White.")

That reminds me of criticism targeted towards Aladdin that I came across many years ago, mostly complaining that the villainous characters had typically Middle Eastern features, whereas as Aladdin and Jasmine looked like "typical white American teenagers."

I have always disagreed with this. Of course, if one insists that both characters look white, then they will certainly look that way. However, I would ask that same person to look me in the eye and tell me that there are no Middle Eastern people that look that way too. If he/she does, I'll bite their head off.

Joking aside, there plenty of incredibly attractive Arabian men and women - and by attractive I mean most definitely palatable to Western tastes. To claim that Aladdin and Jasmine look "white" is to claim that all Arabian people look primitive and ugly, like some of the film's background characters. And I think that is far more insulting to people from the Middle East than an Aladdin who is perhaps half a shade paler than he should really be.

In any case, there are actual people native to the Middle East who are as white as you or me, anyway. (Or maybe just me, since I'm probably a bit darker than most of you here, lol. )

The criticism of Aladdin and Jasmine looking white is preposterous. They both have obvious, distinctive middle eastern features, like black hair and dark skin and eyes to slightly larger noses. And it’s not done to a caricature level but rather respectful.

It’s almost like the critics are saying they can’t be Middle Eastern looking because they’re too beautiful and must therefore be white. The statements embedded in those criticisms are inherently racist.

PatrickvD wrote:It’s almost like the critics are saying they can’t be Middle Eastern looking because they’re too beautiful and must therefore be white. The statements embedded in those criticisms are inherently racist.

That's exactly what I was trying to say but I guess I was just too darn complicated, lol.

Jules wrote: That reminds me of criticism targeted towards Aladdin that I came across many years ago, mostly complaining that the villainous characters had typically Middle Eastern features, whereas as Aladdin and Jasmine looked like "typical white American teenagers."

I think it's exactly that criticism, not merely like it. It's one that has always been out there about the film since it was released and I personally see it as accurate, tbh.

The characters are more White-passing because that was more marketable to Disney, I imagine. I don't think anyone's trying to "ban Aladdin," just point out that this was just another case of Hollywood being Hollywood--caring more about what will sell than accuracy. I remember there was some clip from the making of about how they came up with Aladdin's design, and how they took suggestions from women working there on what celebrities they considered attractive (one name mentioned was Tom Cruise) and that they ended up imitating those celebs for his design. Jasmine does look less stereotypically White than Aladdin (although still moreso than the other characters), but I've always felt Jasmine's design was a classic case of appealing to the male gaze; her looking less White was probably thought to add to the effect and give her an "exotic" factor on top of the overly sexual design.

Really, even the re-make itself ended up having an issue of that kind. I believe there was some controversy about background actors being mostly White people in makeup or something like that? It's quite a big jump you're making to say the people criticizing the film for its portrayal think the only way the characters could've looked more accurate is if the designs were instead "ugly" and "primitive"... You're the one attaching a value judgment there, since I doubt someone going to the trouble of criticizing a film for being too White would then think Middle Eastern people are supposed to look ugly.

PatrickvD wrote:The criticism of Aladdin and Jasmine looking white is preposterous. They both have obvious, distinctive middle eastern features, like black hair and dark skin and eyes to slightly larger noses. And it’s not done to a caricature level but rather respectful. It’s almost like the critics are saying they can’t be Middle Eastern looking because they’re too beautiful and must therefore be white.

I also agree. The characters are clearly designed to look Middle-Eastern or Arabic. I don't get how anyone could look at Jasmine or Aladdin and say "Oh, look! A couple of white people!"

Aladdin was my childhood crush! Next was Flynn but Aladdin still beats him everyday (probably cuz he doesn't wear a shirt lol)

Apparently Gilbert Gottfried has died. He was 67 and it was a long illness he suffered from, all the headlines say. I'm reading some of them now, and the more detailed answer is he passed away from recurrent ventricular tachycardia due to myotonic dystrophy type II.

Gilbert Gottfried as Iago was probably my favorite thing about that movie after Aladdin (the character) himself and the music. (Admittedly Jonathan Freeman's voicework is amazing, and Genie and the Magic Carpet are great characters, too.) Gottfried was hilarious as Iago in both the movie and the TV series (still the best movie-based TV series Disney has made); I always loved how they made him a flawed good character. The scene of him being chased by the Sultan on Carpet is still the funniest moment in the whole of the original movie for me. Gottfried's stand-up was funny, too, although a mixed bag sometimes for me.

Rest in peace.

Oh man Gilbert Gottfried died?! That's unbelievable. He really made Iago who he was. Rest in peace.