DVDizzy Forum

CampbellzSoup wrote:

BelleGirl wrote: Yes, from parents of different color like Barack Obama?

Strange, when a child is born from a black and white parent he/she is always labelled 'black'. What's wrong with calling him/her mulatto?

Not true Im half black, and I'm always labeled white

That may be true in your case, but aren't you officially black? President Obama is always always called black, not as mulatto (though he really is the latter).

Julian Carter wrote:

mooky_7_sa wrote: Those green outfits are probably their wedding/end-of-the-movie outfits.

Great! Do they get married in a pool of frogspawn?

I'm having a very non-Disney thought right now .

Would it be possible to avoid using the word mulatto? Although i know none here uses it in a racist way, it has many negative connotations and is used derogatorily. The PC word is biracial. Thank you.

And THAT is why you don't call people mulatto / what sotiris2006 said.

And I mean "save the opportunity for a Latino or other ethnicity for a prince for another feature"? It's not like they used up their one shot for a latino character.

And just to throw this in with the "It's only Maldonia to be PC", I'd also like to add from a practical story point, it's a lot easier to invent your own country than have to work with an existing one and how it fits in to a particular time and place.

BelleGirl wrote:I would like to see prince Naveen once without that 'toothpase' grin. He looks rather silly like that!

Agreed. But I guess it's wrong of me to judge Naveen's character too soon. I think the scrip calls for Naveen to look and act really smug but it's gonna take a lot of convincing and good character chemistry for me to believe that Tiana and Naveen will fall in love in the end.

Simba3 wrote:
Second of all, I think Disney is damned if they do and damned if they don't. I think critics are going to have SOMETHING negative to say about this film no matter what happens. Personally, I think if Tiana did fall in love with a "white" prince, that would also send a good message. As someone who is in a long-time interracial relationship - I think it would teach children that blacks don't have to marry blacks and whites don't have to marry whites. Marriage is about love - no matter what skin color.

I called this from the moment they announced that they were doing a Disney movie with a black princess. Of course complaints are going to come left and right about every little thing that is done in production. You cant please anyone. Though I must admit that Disney should be given credit for taking on such a risky project where controversy is constant through every minute of production. They're brave for continuing with this project in its current form.

But I'll be honest: I'm a bi-racial and I think that Naveen should've been black like Tiana. This is not based on political opinions or whatnot. I think that for the very first Disney animated feature to feature African-American leads...a leading interracial relationship is too "jumping the gun". It's already been explored with "Pochontas" "Hunchback of Notre Dame" and "Atlantis". But unlike those films, race color is not important to the plot of this story. Of course you can say that it's a good thing that race is not a factor in this story but I since Disney is under so much pressure, I think the whole leading human cast should've been African American to play it safe from controversy. For example, the lead human characters in Lilo & Stitch (Lilo, Nani, David) were all native Hawaiian and that worked without all the racial controversy in doing so. I can sense more controversy brewing with the Labeoufs being white.

In a future, in another animated feature with African American leads, I can see an interracial relationship between leading character become more accepting. I just think that having all the human characters as African American would've been a more comfortable way to go given that this is intended to be the first black princess movie.

BelleGirl wrote: That may be true in your case, but aren't you officially black? President Obama is always always called black, not as mulatto (though he really is the latter).

I always call Obama bi-racial no matter what. It's rather surprising that people see him as black as if they were referring to him being African-American. However Obama is actually half causian-American and half-Kenyan. It's a rather interesting mix.

On another note: Regardless of how production of this movie pans out, I can expect that Disney will most likely invite the Obama Family to attend front row seats at the World Premiere of TPatF. It would be quite a significant event to have the first First Black Family see the world premiere of the first black Disney Princess film.

CampbellzSoup wrote:I'd like to know an honest answer. Why are things that are related to black people in any way always are deemed racist? I'm 1/2 black myself, and I honestly don't see anything racist at all with this film.

Disney films are beautiful, and tell the tales of remarkable storys that encompass the hero/heroine in a great light. To even deem something as racist with something so harmless is just ashame. I hope that the film wasn't changed too much to cater to the cries of foul play. Those people should just not see the film, or at least wait until the film is out before making judgement.

I remember when Capcom the developers of Resident Evil tried to place their game in Africa, and there were calls of racism...because the enemies were black for once.

You know what the funny thing about all of this is? The people who are the loudest to claim that the film is racist aren't even BLACK.

Comment #3: (or a question actually ) Why do you think that Mulan should be considered a Disney Princess?? She never was one and shouldnt be marketed as one. Thats just crazy.

That's quite simple. Marketing. There is a LOT of Disney Princess merchandise to sell a-net-fan. Asian girls might feel a bit more comfotable with indentifiying with one of the Disney Asian characters as well. Is she technically a princess? No, she's not a traditional princess however in order to sell more merchandise she can be considered one

I completely agree with you and a number of the people who posted. I cant tell you how much it saddens me that "controversy" always follows a movie thats centered around minorities! What a great thing Disney is trying to do here, yet it seems the people they are making a point to please are critiquing every single frame of this movie.....before its even released! The princess wasnt allowed to be a chamber maid because that would promote a negative sterio type but on the other hand we cant have Song of the South because it depicts a freed slave being treated well by the people on the plantation and thats just unrealistic?! This film is set in 1920s america. Someone needs to decide if they want this to be historically accurate or if they would feel better it being "disneyized". Either way I wish SOMEONE would make up their mind what they want! This is all way too exhausting. Imagine what it is like for Disney, having to tip toe around to avoid anyone being offended. I was raised to be a 100% colorblind person, and last I checked this is the direction we want the world to go. Race has never been an issue with me and I have honestly never looked at someone as different then me becuase of skin color. That said, NO...I do not believe Disney needs to darken the skin color of the prince nor do I think they should have felt obligated to make his skin the same color as the princess's. That very way of thinking is so sad! This is a movie....and its being made to tell a story.....just like any other. If you truely believe we are all the same and we are all human and are going to see this movie for entertainment value....then there certainly isnt anything to make waves about. I guess if you are one of those ppl who are only excited because this movie is going to feature leading black characters, and your hooked on the politics of everything racially related ....well ok....but I feel sorry for you. I think that really may be the root of the issue with the Prince here. Without a distinctly black prince....some in the black community may not feel that this movie is something they can completely claim as "theirs". Well to those ppl I would say; this movies isnt being made for you......its being made for all ages, races and nationalities! Disneys job isnt to bring quality entertainment to just one group of people....but to us all.


PS: HAHA....Thank you Mike. Yes its obviously all marketing. Whatever the reasoning....Shes still not a princess! Too bad Disney didnt have her accept the job from the Emperor at the end of the movie instead of just going back home. IF they would have done that they could maybe have gotten away with merchandizing her as a Disney Princess. Oh well.....

sotiris2006 wrote:Would it be possible to avoid using the word mulatto? Although i know none here uses it in a racist way, it has many negative connotations and is used derogatorily. The PC word is biracial. Thank you.

Yes, any decent word can be used derogatorily, that is the problem. Probably there was nothing wrong with that 'm' word until people decided to put it in a negative light. The PC alternative 'biracial' is far less specific, by the way. I will not be surprised if one day the word 'biracial' will have 'negative connotations' and will not be PC anymore.

BelleGirl wrote:

sotiris2006 wrote:Would it be possible to avoid using the word mulatto? Although i know none here uses it in a racist way, it has many negative connotations and is used derogatorily. The PC word is biracial. Thank you.

Yes, any decent word can be used derogatorily, that is the problem. Probably there was nothing wrong with that 'm' word until people decided to put it in a negative light. The PC alternative 'biracial' is far less specific, by the way. I will not be surprised if one day the word 'biracial' will have 'negative connotations' and will not be PC anymore.

Agree. Just go look at about ANY youtube comment on a video involving anything "racist". People take racism out of content to an unbelievable level there. Or anywhere. I always found PC to be a pile of horse shit. People he get offend of petty things like that have sticks up their asses.

This movie is basically a political correct movie.

Um... since when is "mulatto" racist?

BelleGirl wrote:I will not be surprised if one day the word 'biracial' will have 'negative connotations' and will not be PC anymore.

To be quite honest, I had personally never heard the term "biracial" before (the British English term is "mixed-race"), and it sounds so stupid to me that it makes me laugh. It quite simply comes across as tacky and trivialising. No offence to American terminology and wording, but at least the British term actually seems somewhat dignifying...

Anyway, enough with that rant. How about something somewhat more upbeat? Like a recap of the original fairy-tale? With annotations?

http://surlalunefairytales.com/frogking/index.html

Uh, spoilers much? I never heard of them turning to human form! I just thought Tiana's green dress was part of her eventual transformation into a frog. You know, the part in the second act where, traditionally, she'd begin to get over her negative feelings and begin to accept anything that happens.

The World Wide Web strikes again!

Seriously, if we're criticizing movies 8 months before release, then the studios need to start being more secretive, like they used to be.

BelleGirl wrote:

sotiris2006 wrote:Would it be possible to avoid using the word mulatto? Although i know none here uses it in a racist way, it has many negative connotations and is used derogatorily. The PC word is biracial. Thank you.

Yes, any decent word can be used derogatorily, that is the problem. Probably there was nothing wrong with that 'm' word until people decided to put it in a negative light. The PC alternative 'biracial' is far less specific, by the way. I will not be surprised if one day the word 'biracial' will have 'negative connotations' and will not be PC anymore.

I can think of one such word: "gay". It used to mean "happy", then "homosexual", now people are using it in the place of "stupid". "Retarded", IMO, suffers the same fate. It's not right. It's like that one moment on the office where Steve Carrell's character talks about how the context of the word "Boss" has changed over the decades.

xxhplinkxx wrote:Um... since when is "mulatto" racist?

It's not so much racist as some people are just offended. I mean also the etymology of the word I guess could be a little insulting... like it's from "little mule", so you could argue in effect it likens someone to a mule.

I could not be more excited about this film...

And it does nothing but sadden me to hear & read about all of the awful & misguided arguments surrounding this project.

I wish they would've kept Maddy the Chambermaid, but they didn't. I wish they would've kept "The Frog Princess", but they didn't. And this whole "White Prince/Non-White Prince" debacle is irrelevant. Disney has done enough to please the crowds. They've already sacrificed what seemed to be a historically accurate portrayal of the times & now they're being pushed to more limits by the "people"? Just doesn't seem right to me.

Before we know it, this film will become something else completely & that's the sad truth.

Regardless of color & preference, this should be a film with heart & story. A story that we can all relate to, emotionally. That's what Disney stands for, and they need to stick to their guns. They're trying their best to make a beautiful animated fairy tale musical, something that will become classic & be remembered for years to come - not some cheap crowd pleasing documentary on what should & shouldn't be PC.

The prince could have been African American or he could have not been - it doesn't matter, they'd both make strong positive statements.

We've finally gotten our long & overdue African American female lead & a return to form for the Studio that started it all. That's enough to celebrate, wouldn't you say?

Well, as a Hispanic, I've heard mulatto used, and used it myself, all my life. It's never been used in a derogatory way. Never even heard of it till you guys brought it up.

sotiris2006 wrote:Hs anyone read this? What do you think?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... rince.html

I'm most disturbed by this segment:

In the past, founder Walt Disney has been accused of being racist, particularly against Jews and blacks.
One extreme example often cited by his critics was in The Jungle Book which was made in 1964 at the height of the civil rights movement.
In one scene, Mowgli is told he can't live with Baloo the bear because different species need to keep to themselves.

I don't know whether or not Walt Disney was racist. I know these accusations continue to turn up time after time, and I do think that where there's smoke, there's fire. He was a very conservative man, so maybe he was...? There are insulting depictions of both Jews and black people in his early cartoons (Fantasia, Three Little Pigs). On the other hand, Jewish and black people did work in the Disney Studio's.

But it's really far-fetched to take that quote from The Jungle Book as some kind of 'proof' that he was racist. I mean, a human can't live with animals. That's what meant with different species keeping to themselves. Yes, I'm sure many film scholars will read more into that (and as a film student, I can't blame them and they're totally justified to do so), but I just don't buy it and I find it a far stretch.

BelleGirl wrote:Strange, when a child is born from a black and white parent he/she is always labelled 'black'. What's wrong with calling him/her mulatto?

Because that term has always been used in a degrading manner.

BelleGirl wrote:Yes, any decent word can be used derogatorily, that is the problem. Probably there was nothing wrong with that 'm' word until people decided to put it in a negative light.

You're mistaken. That word has been *invented* for denigrating biracial people. There never was anythng 'decent' about it.

xxhplinkxx wrote:Um... since when is "mulatto" racist?

It has always been racist. It's a derogatory term and that's the way it has always been used. Just because people have grown up hearing the word being passed around as something that's "acceptable" doesn't mean it *is*.

This has nothing to do with 'political correctnes'. Something being "PC" is often a term people (unconciously) hide behind as a way of not having to accept their own (unintended) prejudices. I don't deny there's such a thing as PC. There is. I'm just saying this is not a form of it. This is about abolishing a term that's always been used in a racist way by people who honestly didn't think of it that way (which doesn't make it any less racist). This should not be confused with *real* PC; soft, smug language used to cover up real meanings:

George Carlin- Soft language
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wcTMlmPe7o

Um, no it's *not* racist. I asked about ten of my friends and some family members just to make sure I hadn't unintentionally been using a racist word for the past 22 years. They all looked at me like I was crazy. I really don't know where you guys got the notion that mulatto is a racist term. It really isn't.

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Ok, so I just looked up mulatto on Wikipedia and found this:

"Mulatto" is no longer commonly used in the United States because it is not politically correct. Biracial is the preferred term.

No wonder I had no idea. I've always lived in areas that are predominantly Hispanic.

Most of you guys may not consider it "PC" but, like I said, we don't look at it as a derogatory word. There is absolutely nothing wrong or negative with the word in my culture.

So that explains where the discrepancy is.

No wonder I've heard the word before in my life!

I've never heard of this fabled M word. Like the UK it's "mixed-race" here in Canada.