DVDizzy Forum

Nice. I'm liking the setup already. Mother Gothel's obsession is a new take on a villain traits.

Flynn seems cool. kinda like Naveen + Phoebus

All of the characters sound nice, especially Mother Gothel. I have a feeling if Disney does this right, then we can have a really fleshed out villain.

I like how she actually thinks that she's doing what's best for Rapunzel. It's almost like a Frollo-kind of thing, but driven more out "actual" love. It's really rather creepy, but in a good way. It does make me wonder if she can be reformed in the end, and see the error of her ways, or if she will simply be destroyed.

Margos wrote:My one concern is that Flynn may be just a little too Naveen-esque.

Ditto. Zac Levi confirmed that his character used to be British but now he will have an American accent. The casting call information must be a bit dated then.

Mother Gothel sounds like an intresting and bizarre villain. So she might love Rapunzel, but it also sounds like she wants to be her mother so she can stay young forever. It's one thing to have a villain like Lady Tremaine or Frollo and raise the main character without a care for them, but to have a guardian who loves you only for something you have would be more disturbing to me. It sounds like she might care for Rapunzel, but it looks like she cares for Rapunzel only for her powers that give her youth. Lose Rapunzel, and she begins to age. She sounds like a user with an obsession.

What's the source of that Casting Call? That was a fascinating read!

The dynamic described between Rapunzel and Mother Gothel reminds me a LOT of the take on this fairy tale in the musical Into the Woods. I love that idea a lot! Though I suppose I'd hope for a happier ending from Disney.

I haven't been following much Rapunzel discussion, but I admit, skimming the thread, I was intrigued by those character bios!

Ariellen wrote:What's the source of that Casting Call? That was a fascinating read!

The dynamic described between Rapunzel and Mother Gothel reminds me a LOT of the take on this fairy tale in the musical Into the Woods. I love that idea a lot! Though I suppose I'd hope for a happier ending from Disney.

I haven't been following much Rapunzel discussion, but I admit, skimming the thread, I was intrigued by those character bios!

Direct download link to a pdf file about this casting call:

http://www.showfax.com/free_download_gr ... eid=677965

Margos wrote:Wow! Just from those descriptions, I am in love with all of these characters! My one concern is that Flynn may be just a little too Naveen-esque. That isn't a problem, considering how marvellous Naveen is.

For you. Anyway, I think I actually said something similar a few pages ago. I guess it's hard for them to come up with a "new" prince every movie--this modern repetition could turn out to be a double of the "boring" prince thing in the first princess ones.

As for Mother Gothel, she really seems to be a reflection of mothers in our society who live vicariously through their daughters (like Little Miss Perfect pageants). She has that age thing to her, too, only there's actual fear over losing it. So I guess she's like the transition point between the Queen and Ursula. Also, the description says she really believes that she loves Rapunzel, so I don't think she's just "using" her. She thinks of herself as protector, too.

Overall, these descriptions don't tell us much we didn't already know.

Mother Gothel does sound to be an unconventional villain for Disney which is something really refreshing. I'm predicting that she will redeem herself, realize her errors and regret her actions, just a few moments before or while she is dying. I think that is the most probable resolution for a character like her.

sotiris2006 wrote:Mother Gothel does sound to be an unconventional villain for Disney which is something really refreshing. I'm predicting that she will redeem herself, realize her errors and regret her actions, just a few moments before or while she is dying. I think that is the most probable resolution for a character like her.

That is true....

But I think it could also be interesting if she came to terms with the whole "Rapunzel leaving the nest thing" by the end, and realizing that she can't hold on to her forever: More like a realistic mother-daughter relationship.

For me, I'd rather have Mother Grothel, this very unique and complex villain, grow worse and worse and eventually become extremely dangerous and insane, basically, thinking that she needs to keep her little girl forever. This causes her downfall. Any villain who realizes they've been wrong and tries to be a good person is a fail in my book.

I guess you're right....

I was kind of thinking like someone like Triton, I guess, who is only a villain in the eyes of the protagonist. He's just looking out for his daughter, but comes across as very overbearing and intolerant. In the end, he realizes how wrong he's been and supports her in her desire to be free.

But I guess Mother Gothel is different. If she does just become more and more insane, I guess that would clearly make her the villain, although, to be fair, if she starts with the same misguided motive as Triton, shouldn't she be in a similar position? Or is she automatically not allowed to have a happy ending, just because she's been labelled "villain?"

Triton doesn't lock Ariel up in a tower and he never really does anything outright villainous (like steal a baby or use a girl for his own purposes). Mother Gothel could've even stunted Rapunzel by keeping her away from other people. Even though she might've loved Rapunzel, that doesn't mean she's a good person. Lady Tremaine, for example, always seemed to love her own daughters, but that doesn't mean she wasn't a villain. And, really, Disney has had evil mother figures forever now. I would want a legitimate mother-daughter relationship, not this villain-victim relationship, to become the standard. Which is what I was hoping for with TP&TF (why couldn't the mother have been the one with the restaurant dream? Bah), but it didn't come.

I agree with SuperAurora, I see the story happening, after Rapunzel leaving the tower and Gothel pursues them, that she slowly starts to become a maniac as her real age starts to show. At best, she could be tragic (a la Beast) as many villains are, but I don't there's going to be a saving grace for her by the end.

And, yes, I know Beast is not “the villain”; I was using the only example Disney has of a “tragic” figure.

That's true. I'm just saying, it might make it an interesting dynamic if, maybe she isn't really a horrible villain. Maybe she can be redeemed. I mean, how many mothers in real life have stunted their own daughters by being over-protective, or shattered their own dreams to live vicariously through them? The answer is "a whole hell of a lot." But those mothers are misguided, and not the greatest parents. They're not really evil, and they do love their children. They don't mean to be so horrible. Maybe that's Mother Gothel.

And, as I said when you posted it in "The Snow Queen" thread, the Beast wasn't really a villain.

Disney's Divinity wrote:Triton doesn't lock Ariel up in a tower and he never really does anything outright villainous (like steal a baby or use a girl for his own purposes). Mother Gothel could've even stunted Rapunzel by keeping her away from other people. Even though she might've loved Rapunzel, that doesn't mean she's a good person. Lady Tremaine, for example, always seemed to love her own daughters, but that doesn't mean she wasn't a villain. And, really, Disney has had evil mother figures forever now. I would want a legitimate mother-daughter relationship, not this villain-victim relationship, to become the standard. Which is what I was hoping for with TP&TF

because she's a secondary character.

Mother Gothel's story arc sorta reminds me of Michelle Pfeiffer in Stardust. The obsession with staying young.

PatrickvD wrote: Mother Gothel's story arc sorta reminds me of Michelle Pfeiffer in Stardust. The obsession with staying young.

Yes but in Stardust, Pfeiffer was a clear-cut villain. Here it sounds that the boundaries of villainy will be more blurred, more complex. Despite stealing Rapunzel from her parents for her own selfish reasons, she must have grown to love Rapunzel after raising her for so many years. So, I think Mother Gothel will find some sort of redemption in the end.

I gotta be honest, while I am looking forward to this movie, I can't help but be a tiny bit skeptical, because I'm really used to the kind of Disney animated fairy tale musicals in the manner of Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast.

True, it might be because I only grew up watching them. But it's just that none of them involved a musical score that might be in the style of 60s rock, which I'm not used to from an animated fairy tale.

sotiris2006 wrote:

PatrickvD wrote: Mother Gothel's story arc sorta reminds me of Michelle Pfeiffer in Stardust. The obsession with staying young.

Yes but in Stardust, Pfeiffer was a clear-cut villain. Here it sounds that the boundaries of villainy will be more blurred, more complex.

I never said she wasn't.

I was referring solely to the plot element of clinging onto her youth plus the slow descend into madness. Animation by the way, is a great medium to show mother Gothel aging throughout the film as she no longer has the magical powers from rapunzels hair.

Actually, Mother Gothel doesn't sound much like a true villain. True villains never feel love. All she might have is obsession and withdrawl issues over Rapunzel's magic, but she doesn't sound that horrible unless she's just using her. But if she does feel love for Rapunzel, then that really doesn't make her that much of a villain, maybe disgruntled or bitter. Then there's the part where she kidnapped Rapunzel from her real parents, and that's not a good thing at all.

PatrickvD wrote:
because she's a secondary character.

Mother Gothel's story arc sorta reminds me of Michelle Pfeiffer in Stardust. The obsession with staying young.

I guess your quote cuts off the end of my paragraph because you couldn’t be bothered to read the rest of it. Still, it’s nice to be eye-rolled for no real reason.

Btw, I think Pfieffer is similar only in the way her body kind of degrades as the movie goes along. She doesn’t become insane to me at all; she seems the same from beginning to end.

Also, Margos, sorry for all those tech errors I had. I was trying to correct them, but having a dial-up connection isn’t exactly ideal for doing that. I was editing my post about the Beast thing just as you replied. Sorry. I really used Beast because he's one of the only inarguable tragic villain-esque characters Disney's had. I think several other villains (Ursula, Frollo, etc.) are tragic in ways, but most people would want to debate that, which wasn't my point in using a reference. I just didn't want to use a non-Disney example. And I suppose Gothel could be more sympathetic, but for some reason I don't think that's the approach that will be taken with the character. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing--I like a good villainess.