DVDizzy Forum

Tangled & WiR losing the Oscar to Pixar. Watching this makes me sick to my stomach
I have a feeling Frozen will end up here in a month & 1/2.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdimKhCJOyw[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwymQte2HUs[/youtube]

But why do the Academy voters love Pixar so much? Why has this been the case for years ? Granted, WDAS haven't been consistent in quality until recently, the last few years they have lost for no good reason.

Newman winning over Menken finished me off with regards to having faith in the Oscar voters.

Atlantica wrote:I think it was absolutely APPALLING that Tangled didn't get nominated for Best Animated Feature; one of the biggest wrong-doing in Academy history for me.

I'm sure if there were five nominees that year, Tangled would have gotten nominated. 2010 was just a damn amazing year for animation and competition was fierce. How to Train Your Dragon was a widely loved film and considered quite a strong departure from DreamWorks' usual trademarks and The Illusionist was incredible. While I prefer Tangled over Dragon, I think The Illusionist is the stronger animated film. The animators branch are just as much fond of hand-drawn as we are (they nominated two this year) and I'm sure they felt it was good for the medium to nominate a hand-drawn film and give it more attention. The Illusionist is also a pretty amazing movie (in my opinion, anyway) and fully deserving of recognition.

With Monsters University out of the way, I think Disney will focus a lot of their attention on campaigning for Frozen to win the Oscar. Since it will probably win the BAFTA, the PGA and sweep the Annies, Frozen's chances are very high. The Wind Rises couldn't even muster a directing nomination for Miyazaki at the Annies, which is surprising considering how much animators have immense respect and admiration for him (Spirited Away won the top Annie way back when). So while The Wind Rises is definitely competition, I think Frozen's massive popularity will win out in the end. Ditto in the song category. I can see them checking off Frozen in the song category, after voting for it in Best Animated Feature (one of the reasons Toy Story 3 probably won both).

Atlantica wrote:But why do the Academy voters love Pixar so much? Why has this been the case for years ? Granted, WDAS haven't been consistent in quality until recently, the last few years they have lost for no good reason.

Newman winning over Menken finished me off with regards to having faith in the Oscar voters.

Because when this category was created Pixar was putting out amazing films while WDAS was putting out crap.

2001: Monsters, Inc. > Atlantis: The Lost Empire (but Shrek won)
2002: No Pixar film released. Spirited Away won which is widely regarded as one of the best animated films of all time and certainly better than Lilo and Stitch/Treasure Planet
2003: Finding Nemo > Brother Bear (Pixar's first win)
2004: The Incredibles > Home on the Range
2005: No Pixar. Disney released...Chicken Little. Enough said. (Wallace & Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit won)
2006: No Disney release. Cars LOST to Happy Feet.
2007: Ratatouille > Meet the Robinsons
2008: WALL-E > Bolt
2009: I personally like TPATF more than Up but Up was a critical darling, earning a Best Picture nom, and beloved by the public while TPATF underwhelmed most
2010: Toy Story 3 > Tangled (sorry)
2011: Cars 2 and Winnie the Pooh both not nominated. Winnie the Pooh was better but bombed horribly at the box office (Rango won)
2012: Wreck-It Ralph > Brave (the only case of Disney being robbed by Pixar, barely)

If the category was created 10 years earlier, Disney would have a ton of wins, but unfortunately for them it was created during Pixar's rise and their own personal slump. Brave vs Wreck-It Ralph is the only example of Disney really getting screwed over by Pixar in and that's a little overblown. WIR is only marginally better than Brave in my opinion and I can see why Oscar voters preferred Brave (more mature themes, animation style, etc.).

The song category often produces odd results but Toy Story 3 was just really beloved all around, and the music in Tangled was fairly underwhelming, especially to non-Disney fans. Frozen's music has obviously made a MUCH bigger impact on the public consciousness given the soundtrack sales, and it's just plain better.

Cars 2 and especially Monsters University not being nominated disproves any Pixar bias. All but one of their wins were for fantastic films, and the other was solid.

lol @ DisneyEra reviewing movies that haven't even come out yet.

After BRAVE beat Wreck-it Ralph last year, I really don't care. But it's nice to see Frozen get such recognition. Also the fact that Pixar got completely ignored this year is pretty sweet, perhaps the academy heard of our suspicion.

Ps. I don't agree BRAVE has more mature themes. Wreck-it Ralph dealt with prejudice and love. To me, the difference was that WiR explored those themes, whilst BRAVE simply presented them, without explaining how they where resolved.

Brave has a much more mature feel to it in general. WIR is more creative and has a much more original story, but it's also presented with a Candy Land nightmare, Rihanna songs, and almost constant toilet humor.

Like I said, I prefer WIR so I'm not going to defend Brave much. I did say it was the ONE example of Disney being screwed by Pixar, as opposed to years and years of preferential treatment like people here seem to believe. I just think WIR is slightly overrated and Brave is slightly underrated and from the perspective of an Academy voter (typically old men), it's easy to see why Brave won. And I bet it didn't win by much anyway.

It seems like a decent amount of the time, the Academy votes for what movie their kids prefer instead of what they actually went out to see and vote for, which would explain why a lot of times, the higher grossing films win, usually Pixar. How well this speaks for Frozen, I'm not sure.

If Tangled were released in any other year, it would have probably won. It was just unfortunate enough to be competing against both Pixar and Dreamworks' most critically acclaimed films.

Lady Cluck wrote:The Wind Rises could win, but it's still a Japanese film about a controversial subject and hasn't been as well received as Miyazaki's best work, and he's not retiring anymore. I don't see it.

Even if Miyazaki makes another feature film - which is not certain as, officially retired or otherwise, time is marching on for both him and Isao Takahata - the Academy will only have one or two more chances to reward him again. And, as I'm sure Disney themselves would acknowledge, he is widely regarded as the greatest living animator. Disney on the other hand are a much less individualistic institution and the Academy don't really reward studios but people.

That being said, the award is still Frozen's to lose because:

- It's a good film. So even if it loses to a better film, that's just another day at the office for the Oscars
- The Wind Rises is a foreign language film and they don't normally do well outside of the ridiculous Best Foreign Language Film category (though the Academy have been getting better, with nominations for Michael Haneke and Emmanuelle Riva last year)
- Frozen has grossed over $700 million. Evidence of audience engagement often helps with the Oscars.

In a way, the last point is another reason why I want The Wind Rises to win. No one is going to go and see Frozen solely because it won the Oscar for Best Animated Film. But winning the award could encourage people to go and give The Wind Rises a chance.

Lady Cluck wrote: 2009: I personally like TPATF more than Up but Up was a critical darling, earning a Best Picture nom, and beloved by the public while TPATF underwhelmed most

TP&TF was well-liked by critics (more than the members on UD), but Up was doubtless the darling that year.

Brave also makes sense, considering whether or not it actually is more mature than WIR or not, it is the more pretentious film, which is what awards shows go for.

I think this'll be between Frozen and The Wind Rises, but I really think the former has the edge. They both have similar critical reception, but Frozen has more hype on its side. Also, The Wind Rises isn't as universally praised as a lot of his other works, plus it will have to deal with the sensitive political undertones. And since Miyazaki has already un-retired, he won't be getting any sympathy votes (if that actually affects the voting in the first place).

I'm a little disappointed that the Academy didn't tap Requiem for Romance for Best Animated Short, because I thought it was amazing. I'm happy to see Possessions and Room on the Broom there, since they're both very good shorts, too, but I was really impressed with Requiem for Romance. I guess the Academy members just didn't feel the same way.

Miyazaky has already won the oscar for best animated feature with Spirited Away, so this time I hope it goes to Disney's Frozen. But maybe I'm prejudices?

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the category as a whole...

I don't know how I feel about it. On one hand I don't like it since it's separating animated films from live-action ones, no matter how good they may be, and putting them into their own box. The increase of 10 nominations is argumentative of course, but it does look suspiciously like The Dark Knight and WALL-E were the main reasons for it, two films which really bypassed the Academy's rigid mindset feels that an animated film and a comic book adaptation should do. To even have that presumption is pretty depressing. I guess at the end of the day, I feel that a film is a film, and should not be judged on medium or genre; it should be judged upon its quality.

On the other hand, the BAF category has really upped the quality in animated films the last 10 or so years, and it has also introduced a Western audience to quite a few foreign language films that the general audience would've never noticed otherwise. It's also nice that animators and people involved in animation vote for who gets nominated, and that the Academy sees that as a notable profession. So who knows? I don't think that the category should get scrapped, but maybe a few minor little tweaks.

I was discussing this with someone else, how the Best Animated Feature award was invented mainly because the quantity (not necessarily quality) of animation was slowly increasing. I will not deny that recent films are becoming more serious on a wider appeal. However, it indisputable that for the majority of movie goers in the US, animation is still seen as a juvenile medium for a similar audience.

In order for people's biases towards live action to be lessened, animated films need to take more risks and not be to willing to relegate itself as just children's entertainment. Because let's face it, when was the last time an animated movie WASN'T made for children/ families? The South Park Movie? The Simpsons Movie?

Meanwhile in the live action spectrum, we have comedies, we have romances, we have superheroes mashups, horror films... in a word, VARIETY.

So yeah, animated films would greatly benefit from variety. But it's a huge financial risk purely because it's never been done before, which will deter many from trying.

Side question: If an animated film were to win Best Picture overall, would that mean it would automatically win Best Animated Featuree as well? Or best Foreign Picture, should something like Waltz With Bashir win?

Early reviews for The Lego Movie are very good and it's sure to be a box office hit. I'd much rather something like that win next year than a sequel to that overrated piece of SHIT How to Train Your Dragon.

Lady Cluck wrote:Early reviews for The Lego Movie are very good and it's sure to be a box office hit. I'd much rather something like that win next year than a sequel to that overrated piece of SHIT How to Train Your Dragon.

That's just disrespectful.

Animation looks like it could be quite strong this year. Both Lego Movie and Peabody are getting good early buzz.

Lady Cluck wrote:Early reviews for The Lego Movie are very good and it's sure to be a box office hit. I'd much rather something like that win next year than a sequel to that overrated piece of SHIT How to Train Your Dragon.

really? Its the only Dreamworks CGI movie Ive ever liked. Im looking forward to the sequel, much more so than I was the sequels to Cars or MU.

Unless HTTYD 2 is really awful, it looks like a lock to me. And I would only be bothered by that if BH6 ends up being amazing; HTTYD was/is better than most of Disney's newest films. I hope it ends up being as good of a follow-up as KFP2 was.

Disney's Divinity wrote:Unless HTTYD 2 is really awful, it looks like a lock to me. And I would only be bothered by that if BH6 ends up being amazing; HTTYD was/is better than most of Disney's newest films. I hope it ends up being as good of a follow-up as KFP2 was.

Huh, people who are fans of Tangled, Wreck It Ralph, and Frozen would very much disagree with you there.