DVDizzy Forum

Posted: **Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:50 pm**

Saw it sooner than I originally planned on, so here are my thoughts. I liked the movie, but I didn't really love it. While the visuals were beautiful, the story felt undercooked and overcomplicated at the same time, and editing was all over the place. I echo UmbrellaFish's statements above, I too felt the movie was boring at times, particularly in the beginning with what amounted to a long ass exposition dump. The opening sequence with older Raya was kind of unnecessary and could have been combined with the sequence that followed it. I agree with everyone who said the last 25-30 minutes were the best part.

I also thought the search for Sisu would have taken more time making the payoff and reveal stronger, but bam, it was over and done a few minutes after the sequence with young Raya. And for a movie with "dragon" in the title, I thought there'd be more emphasis on dragons than on people. I initially thought the storyline would concern dragons going extinct because of people, and then people requiring the help of dragons in their fight against the Druun, which would cause Sisu to be hesitant and reluctant about helping Raya, which would then play into the whole trust/distrust angle (Raya/Namaari/Sisu). I think that would have been a more interesting message about healing and trust than what we got.

The setting I didn't care for. As I wrote before, I'm not a fan of these vague historical references or hodgepodge of different cultural influences. It annoyed me in Tangled but that got away with it by being a fairytale and still grounded in a reality resembling our own history. Just stick to one culture and one setting and make the best of it. It's also kind of crappy and disingenuous of Disney saying, oh, representation matters, here's a little Southeast Asian flavor, and yet have none of it be specific to one region but a mix of everything. None of the fauna resembled the real-world fauna and for all I care, the whole movie could have been set on a different planet or part of the Star Wars universe.

I really liked the characters though. Raya is a great heroine, Namaari is a great antagonist, both wonderfully written, both developed and given a meaningful arc (I would have liked to see more scenes of Namaari though). Sisu was also fun, I usually find Awkwafina annoying and her voice grating, but she found just the right tone for the character, and I'm thankful the character wasn't as obnoxious as I feared she'd be. Just a nice, lovely dragon. The rest of the gang was fine, save for that damn baby, that was just stupid. If they wanted a gang of thieves, monkey-things would have sufficed. A two-year (?!) old jumping around and being cognizant enough to plan and execute thefts? Give me a break.

Estefan, I didn't think of Avengers: Endgame while I was watching it, but now that you mentioned it, I can see the similarites. It also reminded me The Last Unicorn, both with a magical being being turned into a human, and then also in the end when all the unicorns/dragons start jumping in and out of the water.

It may sound like I'm too harsh on the move, but I did like it. I guess I'm just nitpicky and some creative decisions bother me more than other people. And if I never hear the word "trust" or any of its variations again, it will be too soon.

I'll have to give it another rewatch, maybe not soon, but I definitely will. Right now, I'd give it a 6.5/10.

Posted: **Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:13 pm**

****SPOILERS****

I loved this. I have a feeling I'll like it more after I see it again though. The movie was so fast-paced, it was hard for me to absorb all the details entirely. If COVID wasn't a thing, I'd see it again like I did TP&TF and Frozen. I had a similar experience with Frozen. When I first saw that movie, it was over Thanksgiving weekend and I had a toothache at the time. I saw it in IMAX. The first watch I couldn't completely absorb what I'd just experienced and saw it a second time in theaters because I was amazed.

Unlike Frozen though, I went in already expecting to like this, so I'm glad I *did* end up liking it in the end. The character I was most worried about, that I would find them obnoxious, was Boun, and he was surprisingly adorable and genuine rather than being a smartalec character. Tong was different than I expected, too, although what I expected was a positive thing and what he actually was was still a fun character. I thought Namaari's mother would have a bigger role than she did. And I believe I will buy the soundtrack after all, because I really liked the score. Even though Sotiris or D82 posted a link to the End Credits song, I never listened to the whole thing. I only heard a snippet in one of the trailers posted. I actually really liked it when it came on afterwards. I love the opening lyric ("We all have a choice to build or destroy").

Something about this film very much reminded me of Kingdom Hearts. The war over the light, creatures of darkness that destroy everyone--Raya's even a "princess of (H)eart," heh. And the film had a video-game quality to the plot, too, sort of in the same way Coraline did, with most of the film being "Go to X to collect X." Sisu's death scene was so well-done, but of course the best scene is the one where they all give their pieces of the Dragon Stone to Namaari. I mean, the part of Raya walking into Namaari's area that was advertised in the trailers was as epic as it looked. Benja's design and movements were great--but I think that was true about nearly all the characters. I did find the introduction to be the weakest part of the film. I mean--why would all the leaders be gathered like that in such an informal way, without guards or anything? They made it seem more like a family gathering rather than a meeting of leaders.

So it looks like there were actually three princesses in this film in a way--Raya, Namaari, and Sisu, since Sisu's family must've been the royalty among the dragons?

blackcauldron85 wrote:I was surprised to see Namaari's mom at the very end. I wonder how hard it was for Namaari to convince her that working together for Kumandra is better than just helping out Fang...

I have a feeling that will be something explored more in the sequel, perhaps with her mother not completely ready to let her ways go.

D82 wrote:I found it refreshing that (mild spoiler)Sisu isn't reluctant to help Raya at all. She's actually the opposite of most recent similar characters.

Yes, she was the complete opposite of the cynical smartalek buddy character. She was genuine, hopeful, optimistic, naive etc.

D82 wrote:or why all of [the dragons] can "fly" at the end.

This is something I wondered as well. I thought Sisu's power was swimming, and that there were five different powers, so how were all of them flying at the end?

blackcauldron85 wrote:It was Raya who didn't trust Namaari and Sisu was hit...If Raya didn't use her sword, then Namaari wouldn't have pulled the trigger, and Sisu wouldn't have died.

Exactly. Raya was to blame for Sisu's death, unintentionally. She couldn't let go of her distrust. It's why she had to give Namaari the pieces at the end to really prove that she was willing and open to her. It's that old saying, you can be distant and block off people to protect yourself from being hurt, but you're keeping the possibility of happiness out, too. You have to be willing to open yourself to the possibility of being hurt in order to find happiness. Of course Raya was justified in some sense, but at the point they confront Namaari, Sisu had already tried to talk to Raya about opening herself up to the other clans. Raya couldn't do it and in the end she became the barrier to any possible unity by holding on to the past. It reminds me a bit of Tiana, and how she didn't really get what her issue was even after Odie had tried to explain it to her.

Anyway, I see Namaari as the one to blame for the Stone being broke and Benja getting turned to stone. Raya, on the other hand, was the one to blame for Sisu's death.

disneyprincess11 wrote:Also, telling from little animation nudges like Naamari playing with her hair around Raya, it is obvious that Raya and Naamari are supposed to be a thing, but Disney exes said no. Maybe in a sequel/spin-off?

Yes, it was obvious throughout that the two were practically obsessed with one another, constantly trying to one-up and show off to one another. They both seemed to care a lot about how the other perceived them; although all the characters throughout the movie are a great deal focused on how they are perceived by others (Benja saying the others must assume they have power because the Stone although that's not the case; Namaari's mother saying the other groups must see them as to blame for everything; etc.). It was a bit like Zootopia about false beliefs and stereotypes of one another that are false--even little things like the sweet old lady turning out to be a bloodthirsty monster who would leave Sisu to die. Just after the scene Namaari has with her mother telling her they need to discard emotion and be rational, Namaari does the exact opposite. Raya comes out to distract her and tricks her into a one-on-one match. Namaari very stupidly goes along with this even though the smart thing would've been letting the guard her mother gave her subdue Raya. Of course, she ended up outdoing Raya anyway, but she couldn't have known that would happen for certain considering Raya escaped her once already.

I ship it personally.

I wish it would become canon in future sequels, but I don't expect that... Who knows though? If they were to make a trilogy out of this film, the third film could be seven years or so from now, and perhaps Disney might be willing to pull a trigger with that kind of thing by then? *shrug*

D82 wrote:I didn't know how to describe Raya. Yes, she feels really human. I don't know if I like her more than other recent female protagonists, but she's definitely a good lead character.

I'm uncertain about my feelings on Raya (the character), too. I did like her, but placing her in a ranking with the other princesses or modern films' protagonists would be difficult.

blackcauldron85 wrote:4. Did Namaari really (at least in part) want to be friends with Raya, but then the greater good being more important than the individual took over? It reminds me of Gothel & Rapunzel: Did Namaari really ever care about Raya (I think so??), or was she using her the whole time?

To me, Namaari came in seeking to aid her people in taking the stone, but ended up liking Raya without expecting to or looking for friendship. I suppose it's because they are so similar to one another, both warrior types.

blackcauldron85 wrote:9. The scene when we first see Sisu in the water & the scene when we see Sisu flying-- those are so, so joyful and beautiful. I absolutely loved those.

Oh, yes, I totally agree. Particularly the flying one.

blackcauldron85 wrote:19. My husband wondered why Sisu & her siblings were at the front of the "pack." Are they royalty?

I assumed they were. Why else would those five be the ones in charge of the stone? Sisu's eldest brother's horns looked almost like a crown.

And for your questions about why the dragons didn't come back from stone, I can't think of a certain answer. My guess right now is that it's because the others gave Sisu their powers in order to save humanity, and so they couldn't return because Sisu still had their power inside her possibly? But at the end, Sisu is no longer alive, and so the stone could work on everyone and everything all at the same time? I'm sure it will be something explored more in a sequel and that official books / merchandise connected to the film might give an answer. Actually, I wonder if this might be the key to explaining why all the dragons can fly at the end. Maybe since Sisu's was imbued with all the powers, the others couldn't be revived by her. When she died, perhaps the power within her entered all the dragons so that they can all wield all five powers now?

Posted: **Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:20 pm**

After finally seeing the movie on it`s premiering day, I`ll say that it was just okay. It was pretty much similar to most of it`s Revival predecessors who`ve starred Princesses. Sure, the film had it`s moments, but there were only a few times where the movie truly shined. Either way, the story felt a little rushed, in order to include everything from the overloaded plot. Yet the characters ranged from bland to annoying. The only character who had a spark and an interesting personality, was Boun. The rest of the comic reliefs (Sisu, Noi and the Ongis) were annoying, yet still tolerable enough to sit through them. The major characters were pretty bland. Especially Naamari, who had potential to be truly interesting. However, though, the pacing and editing still felt somewhat DreamWorks-esque at times. Either way, Raya and the Last Dragon wasn`t bad by any means. It was emotionally involving, heart-tugging and bittersweet. But it`s just a proof that Disney has lost their Midas touch and gone to only make passable animated films, not truly great ones as they used to. Sorry for my rant.

To add some comments: I liked how Raya took the first step to include the clans, considering that she had her hesitations about them. Raya and Naamari`s friendship was sweet and believable enough to make it investable. And the fact that they used the term nerd was anachronistic. The shadow puppet scene reminded me of the deleted scene in Mulan and the opening for The Jungle Book 2 (yeah, forgive me for mentioning it). The ending how everyone turned into stone took me by surprise. The same with Sisu`s death. But it was nice to see Raya getting her father back, which was an emotional payoff. And yes, I thought Chief Benja was quite attractive

As for the main theme, I thought the message was vaguely executed at first. But after seeing it again, I`ve realized that both Naamari`s and Raya`s arcs are still well executed. At the attack of the Druun`s, Naamari proves that she can be trusted. And during the transformation, Raya realizes the importance of taking the first step. While it would`ve been more satisfying to see Naamari actually apologizing for what she`s done, she did have an clear arc of her own.

Mooky wrote:I also thought the search for Sisu would have taken more time making the payoff and reveal stronger, but bam, it was over and done a few minutes after the sequence with young Raya.

I agree with that. It was too rushed. I was surpised that it was shown that soon. But I guess that it was needed, since the movie needed to introduce the rest of the characters.

Mooky wrote:The rest of the gang was fine, save for that damn baby, that was just stupid. If they wanted a gang of thieves, monkey-things would have sufficed. A two-year (?!) old jumping around and being cognizant enough to plan and execute thefts? Give me a break.

Agreed. Noi didn`t made any sense at all. Babies aren`t supposed to remember anything or be aware of their actions. So having a con-baby? Come on!

Posted: **Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:31 pm**

DisneyFan09 wrote:And yes, I thought Chief Benja was quite attractive

I thought the same thing... Something about the lips and his hips when he's taking her to the kitchen.

He made me think of Tadashi from Big Hero 6, as far as being an attractive and charismatic older male figure to the protagonist. And both Tadashi's and Benja's were about peace, calm, healing, etc. If only Tadashi had come back at the end the way Benja did here.

Posted: **Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:04 pm**

Disney's Divinity wrote:Why else would those five be the ones in charge of the stone?

Well, those 5 put their magic into the stone...because they were the last dragons left. (I had missed this upon the first watch, but got it on the 2nd.) And thanks for sharing your thoughts about the dragons not coming back from stone- that makes sense.

Posted: **Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:11 pm**

blackcauldron85 wrote: Well, those 5 put their magic into the stone...because they were the last dragons left. (I had missed this upon the first watch, but got it on the 2nd.)

Oh, yeah, good point!

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:40 am**

Myself, lol wrote:I wish it would become canon in future sequels, but I don't expect that... Who knows though? If they were to make a trilogy out of this film, the third film could be seven years or so from now, and perhaps Disney might be willing to pull a trigger with that kind of thing by then? *shrug*

I was thinking more about this just now and I wonder... It's probably too much to hope for, but I almost wonder if that may be the reason they took so much inspiration from Avatar and its sequel series TLoK... Korra ends with Korra and Asami together without it having been in your face up until the very final episode. Raya's child design is...so much like Korra. I guess we'll see what happens in the future.

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:55 am**

Watched it last night (NO SPOILERS):

I ADORED this movie. It was so refreshing to see a Disney fairytale that breaks away from the princess musical formula, besides a princess and her pet, but Disney doesn’t own that trope when Ghibli’s Nausicaa has it too. Kelly Marie Tran was fantastic, and as someone who's loved her since The Last Jedi, I am very happy to see her do more projects. I also loved Awkwafina as Sisu, BEST Disney Dragon EVER (Move aside, Mushu). I will definitely buy this when it comes out on physical copy.

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:27 pm**

Watched this last night on Disney+ and I have to say, I went in with low expectations. But overall, I was really shocked how well this worked. There are definitely issues, which I’ll address below, but overall this, in my opinion, is one of the strongest entries in the CG era. That isn’t saying much for me, as I don’t particularly think anything created since the time of CG has rivaled the 90’s renaissance but this was an enjoyable adventure and one I think will grow on me more and more.

My biggest issues with Raya were:

The opening act of the movie with young Raya is filled with horrific dialogue. It’s written as if it’s specifically for 12 year olds who spend their days on TikTok. Not only was it weak writing, but it will age so poorly. The amount of times I cringed during Namaari and Raya’s “blooming friendship” talk was absurd.

The hunt for Sisu needed a bit more of an introduction. I think it would’ve worked better had they shown Raya at the end of the second to last river being upset it didn’t work and exclaiming to TukTuk that there is only one left and showing a real sense of despair and sadness for this last journey in front of them. Didn’t need to be long, but it would’ve made her finding Sisu feel like a much bigger moment.

I did not expect to enjoy all the side characters so much. Bun in particular was so charming and it really made me wish we had gotten more time with them all.

The Talon almost escape made no sense. The characters kept running across behind Raya and sometimes even repeated? I was embarrassed during that. It was really poorly conceived and it showed.

Sisu, in my opinion, needed a big moment and didn’t really get that. Yes she trusted Namaari, and that was endearing, but she needed a moment to really shine and help on the journey and I didn’t feel like she got her own big action moment or shining star moment.

Namaari needed a little more redemption. I enjoyed her arc, but there just was never one pure moment of “wow I’ve really messed up and I have to fix this”... it felt like more of a groan and burden to fix things than a genuine emotional moment.

I also wish we had gotten more of the initial creation of the Druun or some more backstory or legend or something to make them feel more than just a non-entity villain. I like the idea they used, being almost the opposite of dragons, but if that were the case I kind of wish they were more creature than just gassy blob things.

Overall, even with my nitpicks, I really think it’s a very solid movie. Does it feel particularly Disney? No. But is it beautiful and enjoyable and far more emotional than anything the studio has created in the past 15 years, definitely.

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:06 pm**

Disney's Divinity wrote:
blackcauldron85 wrote:It was Raya who didn't trust Namaari and Sisu was hit...If Raya didn't use her sword, then Namaari wouldn't have pulled the trigger, and Sisu wouldn't have died.
Exactly. Raya was to blame for Sisu's death, unintentionally. She couldn't let go of her distrust. It's why she had to give Namaari the pieces at the end to really prove that she was willing and open to her. It's that old saying, you can be distant and block off people to protect yourself from being hurt, but you're keeping the possibility of happiness out, too. You have to be willing to open yourself to the possibility of being hurt in order to find happiness. Of course Raya was justified in some sense, but at the point they confront Namaari, Sisu had already tried to talk to Raya about opening herself up to the other clans. Raya couldn't do it and in the end she became the barrier to any possible unity by holding on to the past. It reminds me a bit of Tiana, and how she didn't really get what her issue was even after Odie had tried to explain it to her.

Anyway, I see Namaari as the one to blame for the Stone being broke and Benja getting turned to stone. Raya, on the other hand, was the one to blame for Sisu's death.

Sorry to nitpick, but Naamari was the one who was mostly responsible for Sisu`s death. Naamari was the one who was going to shoot Raya. And right before Raya pulls her sword, Naamari was pressing the bow. So all of this happened mostly because of Naamari, so Raya is hardly to blame.

nomad2010 wrote:The opening act of the movie with young Raya is filled with horrific dialogue. It’s written as if it’s specifically for 12 year olds who spend their days on TikTok. Not only was it weak writing, but it will age so poorly. The amount of times I cringed during Namaari and Raya’s “blooming friendship” talk was absurd.

You know what? The review from Animated Views actually points out the same things: https://animatedviews.com/2021/raya-and ... agon-film/

Sisu, in my opinion, needed a big moment and didn’t really get that. Yes she trusted Namaari, and that was endearing, but she needed a moment to really shine and help on the journey and I didn’t feel like she got her own big action moment or shining star moment.

Now that you mentioned it, I do agree. Sisu never got her moment to actually do something, besides her revival.

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:34 pm**

I disagree. Namaari was trying to coerce them into doing what she wanted, but I don't think she would've shot Raya, much less Sisu, who she was mystified by. It's just like when someone is holding a gun, you don't make any sudden movements because they could hit the trigger without even thinking about it.

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:46 pm**

Well, okay. We can agree to disagree, then.

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:44 pm**

I usually don't have an issue with modern speech in Disney movies, but I think it was more jarring here because if they're going to create a serious worldbuilding then the speech needs to be serious as well.

And a little bit more about worldbuilding:
I know that everyone wants to feel this sense of Epic, I get that, but to me Epic works in a 9-12 hours trilogies or a film franchise with several films or a TV series. It doesn't work in a less than two hours Disney film. The thing with Disney films is that they have a relatively simple narrative, but they focus on themes and characters and music and enchantment. They don't have complex world building, it's usually a village or a castle or something like that. I don't mind world buildings, but there is no point in them if you're not going to utilize them. Can we honestly say that we know anything about any of the areas shown in the film? Their culture? Their people? Other than what was stigmatized? So Tail is basically a desert with nothing else, Spine is a forest with nothing else. The only interesting places were Talon, Heart and Fang, and we barely spent time in Talon. This could have been an interesting concept for a TV series where we can stay and explore this world more, but as it is, it's just an untapped potential.

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:04 pm**

farerb wrote:I usually don't have an issue with modern speech in Disney movies, but I think it was more jarring here because if they're going to create a serious worldbuilding then the speech needs to be serious as well.

And a little bit more about worldbuilding:
I know that everyone wants to feel this sense of Epic, I get that, but to me Epic works in a 9-12 hours trilogies or a film franchise with several films or a TV series. It doesn't work in a less than two hours Disney film. The thing with Disney films is that they have a relatively simple narrative, but they focus on themes and characters and music and enchantment. They don't have complex world building, it's usually a village or a castle or something like that. I don't mind world buildings, but there is no point in them if you're not going to utilize them. Can we honestly say that we know anything about any of the areas shown in the film? Their culture? Their people? Other than what was stigmatized? So Tail is basically a desert with nothing else, Spine is a forest with nothing else. The only interesting places were Talon, Heart and Fang, and we barely spent time in Talon. This could have been an interesting concept for a TV series where we can stay and explore this world more, but as it is, it's just an untapped potential.

You make such good points here. I kept thinking too how this would’ve worked better as a tv show simply for the fact that there’s so much more to this world that could’ve been explored. A season per dragon gem piece perhaps?

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:44 pm**

Season 1: prologue + search for Sisu.
Season 2: collecting the gems.
Season 3: showdown at Fang.

Posted: **Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:05 am**

bruno_wbt wrote:Yes! I really enjoyed it.

I read your comment when you posted it, but I've realized now I forgot to reply. I'm glad you enjoyed it!

I'm also glad you liked it so much, Disney's Divinity! And you Clindor and the others! And I'm sorry for the ones who didn't, especially the ones I know were really looking forward to it, like you DisneyFan09. The good thing is that there's still another WDAS film this year to look forward to, Encanto. Hopefully, you'll like that film more. I'm actually a bit surprised the response here on the forum has been a bit mixed. After watching the film, I thought everybody would like it. But it's true that it's a bit different from what we're used to from Disney in some aspects, so it's understandable it's not everyone's cup of tea. And to be honest, no one hated it, either. Personally, despite all the inspiration from live-action films and not typical Disney genres, it still felt very Disney to me. Particularly, I thought of Aladdin several times while I was watching it, but I'm not sure what made me think of it. Maybe I'll find out next time I see it.

farerb wrote:Yes, you have a point. I'll keep that in mind when I rewatch the film.

Well, that's just my opinion. Maybe you'll see it differently and that's perfectly fine. I'll also pay more attention to that aspect next time I get to see the movie. But even if it was a bit misguided, I think the message of trust is really needed and can do more good than harm.

Clindor wrote:At D23, we had these huge landscapes of nature under the rain that could only exist in Heart, very atmospheric! It wasn’t meant to be tied to the story, but it’s a bit frustrating for such gorgeous visuals (and others) not to end up in the final story in some ways, but of course artists has to make at some point choices that will serve the story best to make it flows naturally).

It's true, all these landscapes with lots of vegetation, like the one in the Japanese poster, didn't appear in the final film, right? What a shame! Was any of the footage shown at D23 in the final film? I've rewatched the trailers and, except for a couple of shots, all of it is in the movie.

Clindor wrote:The characters in this movie are great, and very engaging. These are not the kind of characters you would usually see in a Disney movie, both in their personality, their motives, their way of dealing with the situations that come along the way, but also in their visual designs. (A baby, a giant, an old lady: what a team!! ) It’s hard to find one character whose personality isn’t appealing or engaging in here, and with whom you wouldn’t like to share their journey.

I agree. And you're right, it's a very original team.

Clindor wrote:The shots and the editing are also very interesting and gives the movie a style Disney hasn’t dared to tackle from my recollection …until now!

One thing in particular that I think hasn't been done in a WDAS film before are the titles with the name of each land, that appeared throughout the movie, which is similar to the chapter titles used in Tarantino films, for example.

Clindor wrote:I think they are here too many interconnected elements there doesn’t always genuinely blend in with one another: the impact of humans’ ways, the combat/fights of the dragons, what really created the Druuns and what they’re after, the effects of the rain/water, the quest for the gem pieces and how they work.

I get what you mean. To me, though, it all worked quite well. Perhaps because, though there were many elements, the main plot was quite clear. That said, I also wish some things had been explained a bit better.

Clindor wrote:Also I said it once with Sisu, I’d say it again quickly here: I’m not the biggest fan of the Dragon designs. It was already the case with Sisu’s final design compared to her previous ones (they were much more Disney-like! imo) I can re-confirm it with the looks of her brothers and sisters (it reminds me a bit of DreamWorks style of design.)

I finally learned to appreciate Sisu's design (though not completely), but I agree about her brothers and sisters. They look too cute and too similar to each other. I wish they had better designs. Speaking of that, one thought I had after watching the film is that all those fins Sisu had in that earlier design would've looked great when the character is in the water, but maybe not so much on land. And she's on land most of the time, so maybe that's one of the reasons for that change.

estefan wrote:Something I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned yet is how the plot somewhat resembles a recent Disney-produced blockbuster. Raya and the Last Dragon has the characters attempt to reverse the effects of an event from six years earlier that seriously cut down the population, which involves travelling to different places to retrieve magical gems and recombine them. Isn't that the plot of Avengers: Endgame?

I had already realized the ending would be similar if all the stone people returned at the end, but I hadn't noticed the search for the gem shards was also reminiscent of that film's plot. I wonder if they were inspired by it or it's just a coincidence.

Disney's Divinity wrote:Even though Sotiris or D82 posted a link to the End Credits song, I never listened to the whole thing. I only heard a snippet in one of the trailers posted. I actually really liked it when it came on afterwards. I love the opening lyric ("We all have a choice to build or destroy").

I quite like the song and its message, too.

Disney's Divinity wrote:Sisu's death scene was so well-done, but of course the best scene is the one where they all give their pieces of the Dragon Stone to Namaari.

I agree, that scene was perfect. One of the best endings of the Revival, in my opinion. That's one of the moments that made me tear up. The other was when Raya and her father hugged at the end, though it didn't make me as emotional as the first one.

Disney's Divinity wrote:I did find the introduction to be the weakest part of the film. I mean--why would all the leaders be gathered like that in such an informal way, without guards or anything? They made it seem more like a family gathering rather than a meeting of leaders.

I also thought it was strange the other clans didn't come more prepared, in case there was a conflict, considering they hated each other so much.

Disney's Divinity wrote:
disneyprincess11 wrote:Also, telling from little animation nudges like Naamari playing with her hair around Raya, it is obvious that Raya and Naamari are supposed to be a thing, but Disney exes said no. Maybe in a sequel/spin-off?
Yes, it was obvious throughout that the two were practically obsessed with one another, constantly trying to one-up and show off to one another.

Yes, I think there were several hints at that. Kelly Marie Tran said in an interview she thinks there is some attraction between the two, but that it isn't the official Disney line.

Disney's Divinity wrote:
blackcauldron85 wrote:4. Did Namaari really (at least in part) want to be friends with Raya, but then the greater good being more important than the individual took over? It reminds me of Gothel & Rapunzel: Did Namaari really ever care about Raya (I think so??), or was she using her the whole time?
To me, Namaari came in seeking to aid her people in taking the stone, but ended up liking Raya without expecting to or looking for friendship. I suppose it's because they are so similar to one another, both warrior types.

I agree. And I think Virana probably had told her daughter to try to befriend Raya in order to find out where the gem was.

Disney's Divinity wrote:
blackcauldron85 wrote:19. My husband wondered why Sisu & her siblings were at the front of the "pack." Are they royalty?
I assumed they were. Why else would those five be the ones in charge of the stone? Sisu's eldest brother's horns looked almost like a crown.

It didn't occur to me they could be royalty. Maybe they are. Though I think it's also possible they were at the front because they were honored by the rest for having saved the world the first time.

Disney's Divinity wrote:And for your questions about why the dragons didn't come back from stone, I can't think of a certain answer. My guess right now is that it's because the others gave Sisu their powers in order to save humanity, and so they couldn't return because Sisu still had their power inside her possibly? But at the end, Sisu is no longer alive, and so the stone could work on everyone and everything all at the same time? I'm sure it will be something explored more in a sequel and that official books / merchandise connected to the film might give an answer. Actually, I wonder if this might be the key to explaining why all the dragons can fly at the end. Maybe since Sisu's was imbued with all the powers, the others couldn't be revived by her. When she died, perhaps the power within her entered all the dragons so that they can all wield all five powers now?

That's an interesting theory. Perhaps, you're not far wrong there. Maybe we'll also get some info about that in the artbook or on the Blu-ray, especially if there's an audio commentary.

DisneyFan09 wrote:The shadow puppet scene reminded me of the deleted scene in Mulan and the opening for The Jungle Book 2

I knew there was another film that used a similar style for the opening, but I didn't remember which one it was. Yes, it reminds of the opening for The Jungle Book 2.

DisneyFan09 wrote:The ending how everyone turned into stone took me by surprise. The same with Sisu`s death.

Those were the biggest surprises for me too.

DisneyFan09 wrote:
Mooky wrote:I also thought the search for Sisu would have taken more time making the payoff and reveal stronger, but bam, it was over and done a few minutes after the sequence with young Raya.
I agree with that.It was too rushed. I was surpised that it was shown that soon. But I guess that it was needed, since the movie needed to introduce the rest of the characters.

I was surprised by that too, but I agree it was probably needed. Apart from the fact they had to introduce the rest of the characters, Sisu is absent during most of the third act, so she needed to appear quite early to have enough screen time.

DisneyFan09 wrote:
Mooky wrote:The rest of the gang was fine, save for that damn baby, that was just stupid. If they wanted a gang of thieves, monkey-things would have sufficed. A two-year (?!) old jumping around and being cognizant enough to plan and execute thefts? Give me a break.
Agreed. Noi didn`t made any sense at all. Babies aren`t supposed to remember anything or be aware of their actions. So having a con-baby? Come on!

It's a cool and original character, but I also think it's not too believable she's so smart at her age.

nomad2010 wrote:Sisu, in my opinion, needed a big moment and didn’t really get that. Yes she trusted Namaari, and that was endearing, but she needed a moment to really shine and help on the journey and I didn’t feel like she got her own big action moment or shining star moment.

Personally, I think her contribution was probably more important than anyone else's, and as I previously said, I'm glad they did something unexpected and she didn't take part in the climax or had any big action moment, but it was her wisdom and faith in humanity what was key to save the day.

nomad2010 wrote:Namaari needed a little more redemption. I enjoyed her arc, but there just was never one pure moment of “wow I’ve really messed up and I have to fix this”... it felt like more of a groan and burden to fix things than a genuine emotional moment.

Well, I agree it would've been nice if she had been a bit more repented at the end.

Posted: **Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:40 am**

D82, I know I tend to be more critical, but I did really enjoy and like the film, and I do think there's a lot to love in it. It might not be a favorite but I liked it enough that I plan to buy it on 4K.
I just wanted to make sure because I think that sometimes I come across as hateful and I don't mean it that way. Usually I talk about a film when it's interesting enough to make me invested in it, both positive and negative. For instance, I don't talk much about Big Hero 6 because I don't really care about it.

As for audience response, I didn't expect to see people in this forum being more positive than usual. There were always lukewarm reactions to the Revival films here. However, going into different places, I saw that people are more mixed than usual or more than the critics, which did surprise me. But, there is a Raya facebook group where people there really love the film.

Posted: **Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:08 am**

farerb wrote:D82, I know I tend to be more critical, but I did really enjoy and like the film, and I do think there's a lot to love in it. It might not be a favorite but I liked it enough that I plan to buy it on 4K.
I just wanted to make sure because I think that sometimes I come across as hateful and I don't mean it that way. Usually I talk about a film when it's interesting enough to make me invested in it, both positive and negative. For instance, I don't talk much about Big Hero 6 because I don't really care about it.

You don't come across as hateful at all. And I already understood you really liked the film, but just wasn't among your top favorites. It isn't among of my top top favorites either, but it's at least one of my favorites from the Revival era. Anyway, as I said in another thread, I need to watch it more times to be sure, though normally my opinion of a film doesn't change much with repeated viewings.

I'm really glad you liked it, but if you hadn't, your opinion would've been just as valid, and I don't think anyone would've had any issue with it. I, at least, want to know the truth above all.

farerb wrote:As for audience response, I didn't expect to see people in this forum being more positive than usual. There were always lukewarm reactions to the Revival films here. However, going into different places, I saw that people are more mixed than usual or more than the critics, which did surprise me. But, there is a Raya facebook group where people there really love the film.

Actually, after posting that I realized that most likely past films also got a similar response here, probably even Frozen, so it's not that surprising. I noticed too critics are liking it a bit more than audiences. You only have to look at Rotten Tomatoes. The critics score is 96%, while the audience one is 85%. But I've checked the scores for other recent films from the studio and the same happens with them, so I guess that's normal too. After all, Raya has an A CinemaScore, like Zootopia or Moana. However, it seems it's not performing too well at the box office, though it's difficult to know how it's really doing, as we don't have the results from Disney+, and many theaters are closed.

Posted: **Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:36 am**

D82 wrote:It didn't occur to me they could be royalty. Maybe they are. Though I think it's also possible they were at the front because they were honored by the rest for having saved the world the first time

That makes a lot of sense!

Posted: **Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:21 am**

D82 wrote:Personally, despite all the inspiration from live-action films and not typical Disney genres, it still felt very Disney to me.

I agree. I couldn't help thinking throughout that the fast-paced nature reminded me of a lot of Marvel films these days (thinking of GotG, Thor 3, etc.), and yet it never felt so unlike Disney that it bothered me. Not like, say, BH6 or WIR.

Yes, I think there were several hints at that. Kelly Marie Tran said in an interview she thinks there is some attraction between the two, but that it isn't the official Disney line.

Oh, I forgot to say something else. It's kind of related to the Namaari / Raya thing, but it doesn't have to be. I wanted to say how much I loved the part where Raya is trying to distract Namaari and Namaari totally wipes her out. I really wasn't expecting it. It was like Raya was all in her head and then came up against a brick wall. I thought it was nice that while Raya is a great warrior, she wasn't automatically stronger than everyone like she thought. In fact, a lot of her antics in the film require quick-witted thinking and tricks, where I suppose Namaari is more a case of brute strength.

You could be right about Sisu's family not being royalty, but I guess I'm going to hold onto that theory until it's completely disproven.

I still feel like her brother's horns looked like a crown--that maybe it was sort of like a Narnia situation where you have multiple rulers, but then the eldest brother is High King over the rest of them.

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