DVDizzy Forum

With all the recent developments in the US, are we really still going to pretend like racism didn't play a role in TPATF's underperformance?

It was the title, the medium, this, that. Everyone is so afraid to name this thing. It's one of the highest grossing films with a predominantly African-American cast. I think Disney should be happy it even made as much as it did. It sold more tickets than recent Dreamworks titles like Penguins of Madagascar, Turbo and Rise of The Guardians. Granted, they were flops, but on paper they were assumed to be sure-fire hits.

It's also a weaker film than Tangled overall. The title and the medium might have played a role yes, but there is more to this than people care to admit.

PatrickvD wrote:With all the recent developments in the US, are we really still going to pretend like racism didn't play a role in TPATF's underperformance?

It was the title, the medium, this, that. Everyone is so afraid to name this thing. It's one of the highest grossing films with a predominantly African-American cast. I think Disney should be happy it even made as much as it did. It sold more tickets than recent Dreamworks titles like Penguins of Madagascar, Turbo and Rise of The Guardians. Granted, they were flops, but on paper they were assumed to be sure-fire hits.

It's also a weaker film than Tangled overall. The title and the medium might have played a role yes, but there is more to this than people care to admit.

To be honest, I think that's really unfair. I don't think it played into the films downfall at all. I come from a very close minded community that is often racist and incredibly non-diverse, yet every single parent would take their kid to a movie featuring a predominantly African American cast without blinking. In fact, I've seen the Princess and the Frog used for children's events more often than I have Tangled.

Really, people can blame the movies shortcomings in whatever they want, but the real issue lies in the fact that they blatantly compared this film to the big four from the late 80's/90's in the trailer, and delivered something not on their scale whatsoever. All those movies were huge in terms of their story and the locations and had gut wrenchingly emotional moments. This movie had none of that. It was a small scale feature set in a swamp, the most unappealing place for any film to take place, and it featured frogs as the lead for more of the movie than it should have. The bland design of Tiana as a frog only contributed. It just wasn't up to snuff. It had a quarter of the magic and heart and scale the big four had, and people could sense that. Of course a mediocre script is going to make mediocre money. Add in the fact that it was a musical with not one truly memorable song, and you have what's close to a disaster. It wasn't a bad film. But it was a bland one. Racism didn't play a part, and I can pretty much guarantee that.

^Personally, I think that's nonsense. By most critics' ratings, TP&TF is only slightly below Tangled and Frozen. The race of the cast, the fact that they are frogs for most of the movie, and the title/marketing emphasizing "Princess" brand are what affected it the most (the first film with a princess since the DP line became a force in merchandise), imo. Of course, all this talk is assuming it's a failure when it made close to 5 times its budget of 67-69 million. And the intake of the films following TP&TF did step up, similar to the climb between TLM-B&tB-Aladdin-TLK.

PatrickvD wrote:It's also a weaker film than Tangled overall.

Patrick, I have to respectfully disagree. Tangled was great and all, but it just didn't really click with me the way The Princess and the Frog did. I thought the music worked better in the latter, the characters seemed more interesting, etc.

But getting back on topic, I really REALLY don't want Moana to get a title change because title changes are very redundant. The only one that made any damn sense was Frozen.

Speaking of The Princess & the Frog, look what's getting another sequel this December:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI_nj4NXpoQ[/youtube]

If you can make it to the end of this trailer, your nerves are strong
It's just galling that original 2D animated features from WDAS was put to death by this piece of garbage

DisneyEra wrote:Speaking of The Princess & the Frog, look what's getting another sequel this December:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI_nj4NXpoQ[/youtube]

And we wonder why 2D Animation is gone

ugh!

Not releasing TP&TF during Disney's more typical Thanksgiving weekend has to be another factor.

I'd say whether or not it was a weak film is pretty much beside the point, as weak films make money all the time. Plus, PATF was as pretty well-reviewed, nearly on par with Tangled and Frozen, so I wouldn't cite that as a reason for its "poor" performance. However, I do think racism is an issue, and I wouldn't bank against the primarily black cast of characters being a factor that limited its box office potential.

I agree with the title also being a possible factor--I'm sure "Princess" being in the title would turn away boys, that's just the way it is. It was a misguided title driven by the success of the Disney Princess line. The title doesn't really make sense given the content of the movie. It backfired on them, and caused them to run in the other direction on the titles for Tangled and Frozen, which are equally misguided, just in the opposite way.

But with that said, it really didn't do that poorly. It's box office gross was respectable, and it made more than Meet the Robinsons, and hardly decreased from Bolt the previous year. I do agree with Aviator, though, and would say that they really dropped the ball on the release date. It should have been released on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, like Tangled and Frozen. The film performed phenomenally during its limited two-week, two-theater run (way better than Frozen did during its limited one-week, one-theater run), and I really think it would have added a significant amount to its gross had they released it for Thanksgiving. Instead it was released on an awkward weekend two weekends after Thanksgiving, but a bit too early to truly take advantage of the Christmas/New Years season, where other, bigger films ended up dominating.

TL;DR. As for Moana, I really hope they don't change it. Although I've grown used to it, I'm still not a fan of Tangled or Frozen as the titles for those movies.

While we're at it, if you removed the 3D price boost that Bolt received, did it really do that much better, if at all?

In countries where black racism isn't as big an issue, TPATF had no word of mouth in Australia where I live or Singapore when I saw it. Frozen and Tangled and WIR had lots of positive feedback. It was just such a hard movie to get excited for.

Critics don't accurately gauge the excitement and pleasure of the general public because they watch the movie to review it, not because they are excited about it.

Victurtle wrote:Critics don't accurately gauge the excitement and pleasure of the general public because they watch the movie to review it, not because they are excited about it.

I find it's hard to gauge that aspect of the general public with any accuracy outside of cases like Frozen, where people literally go crazy over it.

I've never thought the marketing was particularly girly for PATF, more 90's Classic than anything else. But personally, I think the title change to 'The Princess & The Frog' did veer it away from boys a bit, but then on the other hand, girls were left with a Princess that was in the guise of a frog for most of it, which ultimately isn't particularly appealing.

I like the movie, but I certainly don't regard it as one of Disney's strongest efforts. I think the music is awful (bar Almost There), and the score forgettable. The supporting cast wasn't quite up there either. Tiana is a great character, and is a brilliant addition to the Disney canon. But I think Tiana is the films strong point and thats it ... for me.

nomad2010 wrote:

PatrickvD wrote:With all the recent developments in the US, are we really still going to pretend like racism didn't play a role in TPATF's underperformance?

It was the title, the medium, this, that. Everyone is so afraid to name this thing. It's one of the highest grossing films with a predominantly African-American cast. I think Disney should be happy it even made as much as it did. It sold more tickets than recent Dreamworks titles like Penguins of Madagascar, Turbo and Rise of The Guardians. Granted, they were flops, but on paper they were assumed to be sure-fire hits.

It's also a weaker film than Tangled overall. The title and the medium might have played a role yes, but there is more to this than people care to admit.

To be honest, I think that's really unfair. I don't think it played into the films downfall at all. I come from a very close minded community that is often racist and incredibly non-diverse, yet every single parent would take their kid to a movie featuring a predominantly African American cast without blinking. In fact, I've seen the Princess and the Frog used for children's events more often than I have Tangled.

Really, people can blame the movies shortcomings in whatever they want, but the real issue lies in the fact that they blatantly compared this film to the big four from the late 80's/90's in the trailer, and delivered something not on their scale whatsoever. All those movies were huge in terms of their story and the locations and had gut wrenchingly emotional moments. This movie had none of that. It was a small scale feature set in a swamp, the most unappealing place for any film to take place, and it featured frogs as the lead for more of the movie than it should have. The bland design of Tiana as a frog only contributed. It just wasn't up to snuff. It had a quarter of the magic and heart and scale the big four had, and people could sense that. Of course a mediocre script is going to make mediocre money. Add in the fact that it was a musical with not one truly memorable song, and you have what's close to a disaster. It wasn't a bad film. But it was a bland one. Racism didn't play a part, and I can pretty much guarantee that.

Those are some very good arguments, straight to the points of why The Princess and the Frog is a mediocre movie (with it's own charm off course) and why it's box office performance was mediocre (far from a flop, but not a huge sucess either).

Alan Tudyk Confirms Voice Roles in ZOOTOPIA and MOANA
http://collider.com/alan-tudyk-voicing- ... and-moana/

Wow! Sad that we got him announced before the actress for Moana!

disneyprincess11 wrote:Wow! Sad that we got him announced before the actress for Moana!

Naturally. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually cast her already and are waiting to announce her at D23. As well as have her sing live.

They need those headlines to prove that they can be just as big as SDCC.

taei wrote:

disneyprincess11 wrote:Wow! Sad that we got him announced before the actress for Moana!

Naturally. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually cast her already and are waiting to announce her at D23. As well as have her sing live.

They need those headlines to prove that they can be just as big as SDCC.

Exactly sounds like the plan:

After meeting the Emotions inside the mind of an 11-year-old, taking a trip to San Fransokyo where a boy genius and his robot save the world, and falling in love with a queen with icy powers who wants to “let it go,” come see where Walt Disney and Pixar Animation Studios plan to take you next. In what has become a D23 EXPO must-see, host John Lasseter, chief creative officer of Walt Disney and Pixar Animation Studios, presents “Every Story is a Journey.” Filmmakers will unveil never-before-seen footage from Pixar’s upcoming The Good Dinosaur and Finding Dory and Disney Animation’s Zootopia and Moana. The event will include surprise announcements, musical performances, and appearances by the films’ star voice talent. Cell phones, cameras and all recording devices will be checked for this presentation.

From the Disney Animators: The Power of 2D panel at San Diego Comic-Con today.

Filmmakers for Moana wanted her hair to be artistic than natural and we will see her interact with characters unlike we have seen before.

Source: https://twitter.com/MouseInfo/status/619612043977490432

Dinah Jane=CONFIRMED???

http://awesomeatitsbest.tumblr.com/post ... cess-moana

I hope it’s not the Fifth Harmony girl. I know them from The X Factor (yes, I’m embarrassed to say I watched the show when they were on… ), and, while she seemed to be a very sweet girl and one of the two best singers in that group, I didn’t see anything that implied she would be good at theatrical songs or that she would be a good actress. Plus, her voice had a muddled and slightly nasal quality.

I had hoped they would continue with stronger singers like Bell/Menzel and not D list pop (non-)singers… Especially when considering the talent found in other M&C films--Jodi Benson, Lea Salonga, Susan Egan, Anika Noni Rose, etc. But if she did the end credits song, that would be okay.