DVDizzy Forum

as many as it takes, my friend. the technology improves every year, so there's going to be another one. Especially since this is one of only ten films Disney's willing to restore at all.

ajmrowland wrote:as many as it takes, my friend. the technology improves every year, so there's going to be another one. Especially since this is one of only ten films Disney's willing to restore at all.

As many as it takes for what? At what point does restoration reach it's max?

Well, I agree with Marky that the problem exists but I don't agree with him that its a fault of the restoration. I don't think this was deliberate tampering but a error with the master they used for the pressings. I bet its not there when they show the new restoration on Disney Channel.

I don't think this will be getting a new restoration any time soon. It was most likely done at 4K, ready for any future HD format or theatrical presentations, and just looks perfect. The only changes they can make at this point is the color accuracy, which always seems to be controversial and ever changing. Beyond that, I can't see the PQ getting any better.

Oh come on people... this is a 2 frame encoding error.

This is not some plot by Disney to make everyone go out and buy the next version in 7 years. Trust me, there are VERY few people who would be the least bit concerned about this. Granted, I happen to be one of them, but let's not make this into a bigger deal than it is.

I dislike it and wish it wasn't there, but it is far from a huge problem.

ajmrowland wrote:
Hell, not even the HDD reviewers, who have top of the line Home Theater equipment, spotted this because it's so small.

Which is a perfect example of how well they watch and actually care about the film and it's details, versus how much they care about equipment and technology.

The_Iceflash wrote:

ajmrowland wrote:You can bet your ass the next restoration probably wont have this.

NEXT RESTORATION? How many restorations does a film need?!

I don't know, but I do know that the next Snow White release in 7 years will look completely different again. Because then, of course, they finally found out what the real colors looked like (again).

Marky_198 wrote:

ajmrowland wrote:
Hell, not even the HDD reviewers, who have top of the line Home Theater equipment, spotted this because it's so small.

Which is a perfect example of how well they watch and actually care about the film and it's details, versus how much they care about equipment and technology.

Really, I blinked and missed it entirely the first time. I probably wouldn't have ever seen it if not pointed out to me. I was very into the film as well when I was watching it. Naturally I don't watch a film to sit and try to pick out what's wrong with it but I do watch it to enjoy the film.

Let's just say people watch films with different eyes, and you didn't see it, but many people DID see it.

But that's not really the point here. I like to watch Snow White in a version where this scene is fluent and perfect, so I watch one of my older versions, because I do see the error and to me it is disturbing. I like to watch Sleeping Beauty without all the shifted instruments, lines, sound effects, so I watch my old version. You might not notice that either, but I noticed it immediately. And everyone who knows the soundtrack and the film will notice this.
If you would watch Snow White 3 times and simply '"miss" the ghost dwarfs shot every single time, you can't say you are watching the film properly. It's not looking for errors, it' just seeing what's in front of you.

Umm, I don't have the previous (2001) Platinum Edition DVD to confirm this but I think it had the ghosting dwarfs error too. I'm basing this purely on YouTube videos, so if anyone who actually has the DVD could confirm this, it would be very much appreciated. If I'm right in assuming the Platinum Edition had the same error, it would be pretty safe to assume that they reused the previous restoration from 2001 and only tweaked the colors for the Diamond Edition. That would explain whey there really isn't any noticeable increase in quality between restorations, beyond the color changes and higher resolution of the Blu-ray.

Still looks fantastic but you'd think they'd have someone to check for errors like these, that I suspect are very likely to happen when a film is digitized and transfered around a lot.

jpanimation wrote:Umm, I don't have the previous (2001) Platinum Edition DVD to confirm this but I think it had the ghosting dwarfs error too. I'm basing this purely on YouTube videos, so if anyone who actually has the DVD could confirm this, it would be very much appreciated. If I'm right in assuming the Platinum Edition had the same error, it would be pretty safe to assume that they reused the previous restoration from 2001 and only tweaked the colors for the Diamond Edition. That would explain whey there really isn't any noticeable increase in quality between restorations, beyond the color changes and higher resolution of the Blu-ray.

Still looks fantastic but you'd think they'd have someone to check for errors like these, that I suspect are very likely to happen when a film is digitized and transfered around a lot.

I just checked my Platinum Edition DVD and I can confirm that the ghosting is there as well. I don't know why it's never been noticed all these years.

So the restorative effort is not at fault. Dont worry, I'm sure it will be fixed just as Dumbo's ear was fixed.

Are we sure this ghosting effect just wasn't a filming error? There are several instances of this in Alice in Wonderland, and those have appeared in every home video version. A few also pop up in Cinderella, too, but I can't confirm if those have always been there.

One thing's for certain: this new restoration was made from scratch. It didn't just take the 2001 one and tweak it. Yes, Blu-ray automatically offers increased resolution, but that only goes go far. The trailer for the BD uses all its footage from the 01 transfer, so comparing that trailer in HD to the 09 BD transfer still shows a noticeable increase in detail. Also, some of the fade-to-black transitions were apparently mistimed in 2001 but have been fixed for the 2009 one.

I KNEW the way to watch the DACs was on a screen the size of a postage stamp. No ghosting ever annoys me there...

Disneykid wrote:Are we sure this ghosting effect just wasn't a filming error?

Anyone have a VHS, Laser-Disc or 35mm print to compare?

I'm not sure how we can find that out but since you're probably right about it being a brand new restoration (I forgot they restored the RKO titles in too), then it may well be a filming error. If so, I just wasted everyones time and I apologize for that.

SpringHeelJack wrote:I KNEW the way to watch the DACs was on a screen the size of a postage stamp. No ghosting ever annoys me there...

Imagine the outrage if they showed this movie in theaters. I'd certainly have to protest that kind of quality as it was obviously never meant to be seen that way.

Disneykid wrote:Are we sure this ghosting effect just wasn't a filming error? There are several instances of this in Alice in Wonderland, and those have appeared in every home video version. A few also pop up in Cinderella, too, but I can't confirm if those have always been there.

One thing's for certain: this new restoration was made from scratch. It didn't just take the 2001 one and tweak it. Yes, Blu-ray automatically offers increased resolution, but that only goes go far. The trailer for the BD uses all its footage from the 01 transfer, so comparing that trailer in HD to the 09 BD transfer still shows a noticeable increase in detail. Also, some of the fade-to-black transitions were apparently mistimed in 2001 but have been fixed for the 2009 one.

At this point I believe it's just a filming error.

If so, I just wasted everyones time and I apologize for that.

That's alright. We all learned something from this.

The_Iceflash wrote:
I just checked my Platinum Edition DVD and I can confirm that the ghosting is there as well. I don't know why it's never been noticed all these years.

It is not on the 1994 laserdisc so it does have to do with the restoration.

Which is really weird, and it makes me wonder how "new" the 2009 restoration is, as they obviously used the 2001 master and changed it even more.

^I'm sorry but, unless you have an LD to digital converter and can take screencaps of the LD transfer at High Resolution, I can't take your word for it. You understand.

I found a breakthrough!!

I was watching the Seven Wise Dwarfs on YouTube and guess what?! The ghosting is there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5Co-rAqeEA

NO, NO, IT'S THE RESTORATION!!!!!!

Scamander wrote:NO, NO, IT'S THE RESTORATION!!!!!!