DVDizzy Forum

Even if Disney won´t make any more hand drawn animation movies...

...why not go back to TV cartoons? But GOOD TV cartoons. Back to Ducktales, Chip ´N Dale, Gummi Bears and such. Plus, on top of everything, raising the bar for animation.

Back in the 80´s early 90´s those cartoons were good enough in terms of animation. Then they started making the Aladdin, The Little Mermaid and Hercules TV series that, as enjoyable as they were, speaking in terms of animation they dropped the ball.





And the past years and continue trend is to go for the EXTREME simplicity:

http://www.proprofs.com/quiz-school/upl ... 470429.jpg

So, maybe for 1 series is OK. But everything? Much less Disney.

How do you know that they won't go back to making hand-drawn films? Maybe not this decade, but do we know whether or not they will in the next decade?

thelittleursula wrote:The Wild > Madagascar Madagascar was the better movie but it was Disney's original idea.

It was certainly not. I don't know where you got that idea from. The Wild started production in 2003 and was released in 2006. Madagascar started production in 2002 and was released in 2005. If someone ripped anyone off, it was Disney.

The only case I believe is with Antz/A Bug's Life where there is evidence. Everything else was a mere coincidence. There's nothing in common between the films you listed other than a vague concept. Following the same logic, Happy Feet ripped off The Pebble and the Penguin because both films feature penguins.

thelittleursula wrote:"You'll pay Disney for what you did back to me back in 1995 or something"

Eisner did treat Katzenberg very unfairly and it was natural of him to feel bitter and frustrated. But he has matured since then and changed for the better. He learned to trust the creative talent of his studio and stopped micromanaging, he does tons of charity work, and he's made DreamWorks into one of the best companies to work for, and one of Hollywood's most female-driven studios. If you ask me, Lasseter and Pixar could learn a thing or two from Katzenberg.

FlyingPiggy wrote:Disney never had a Ramayana adaptation in development and Dreamworks has been working on it for 3 years.

WDAS did have a Ramayana adaptation in development in the early '00s. Surprisingly, we know very little about that cancelled project. All we know is that Ray Shenusay worked as a visual development artist and Anthony Adams worked as a writer on the film. Of course, I agree with you that accusing DreamWorks of stealing the idea from Disney is utterly ridiculous.

DisneyJedi wrote:How do you know that they won't go back to making hand-drawn films? Maybe not this decade, but do we know whether or not they will in the next decade?

I said Even if.

Still, it is REALLY sad the lack of effort in this department. Especially for Disney since they were the ones that started it all.

Plus, there´s no way anyone can´t say hand drawn animation is dead when Japan does wonders and has followers all over the world.

Like maybe the new CEO will let John Lasseter do another hand drawn animated feature. Like I said, it better not be that greedy dirtbag Jay Rasulo. Hopefully it's Kathleen Kennedy.

TsWade2 wrote:

Disney just seems too cowardly to do it. They'd rather do the same 'safe' CG over and over.

Of course they are cowards! John Lasseter needs to stop acting like a baby and do another hand drawn animated movie. Those general audiences of today are very stuuuuuuupid!

I just think it's really hard for general audiences to support hand drawn features if there's no hand drawn features to support. I really don't think PATF's so called "failure" was due to it being hand drawn at all. It's really narrow minded of them to think that way. Plus plenty of CG features have failed. It's way more than just the medium determining success or lack of.

dollover wrote:

TsWade2 wrote: Of course they are cowards! John Lasseter needs to stop acting like a baby and do another hand drawn animated movie. Those general audiences of today are very stuuuuuuupid!

I just think it's really hard for general audiences to support hand drawn features if there's no hand drawn features to support. I really don't think PATF's so called "failure" was due to it being hand drawn at all. It's really narrow minded of them to think that way. Plus plenty of CG features have failed. It's way more than just the medium determining success or lack of.

That´s one way of seeing it.

Other is the fact that yes, CGI is, has been and will be a trend.

But that´s because it has been associated with Pixar´s quality or Dreamworks´all ages humor.

A CGI film may and will be unsuccessful but still it will generate even something at theaters and people will go see it.

While Disney and USA in general is afraid of going back to traditional animation.

...again, when anime is being watched all over the world AND especially by teens/young adults and adults in general. Why? The quality of animation and adult stories.

There are very, very few CGI movies that dare go for a dark/adult tone (like Resident Evil Damnation for example). The majority of them go for family friendly.

But, going back to Disney and hand drawn animation...

I said it before...Was it really smart for them to do a Winnie Pooh movie? Why not go for stories/movies like the ones from the 90´s?

Take Tangled. Do that movie in traditional animation and it is just a throw back to that decade but updated to today tastes.

The Princess and the Frog on the other hand was a flawed movie overall. By the time the characters reach the swamp it is all a mess. If you were to tell me the movie was like The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin or The Lion King and didn´t do well overall then YES I would understand Disney being hesitant to go back to hand drawn.

Now, let´s go back to Tangled. How come Disney here put a lot of effort into making this one?

That just goes to tell the lack of commitment by Disney.

My opinion.

TsWade2 wrote:

Disney just seems too cowardly to do it. They'd rather do the same 'safe' CG over and over.

Of course they are cowards! John Lasseter needs to stop acting like a baby and do another hand drawn animated movie.

All of what you said is not true and you know it! No need to be such an accusatory immature crybaby!

disneyphilip wrote:

TsWade2 wrote: Of course they are cowards! John Lasseter needs to stop acting like a baby and do another hand drawn animated movie.

All of what you said is not true and you know it! No need to be such an accusatory immature crybaby!

I can't help it.

TsWade2 wrote:Like maybe the new CEO will let John Lasseter do another hand drawn animated feature. Like I said, it better not be that greedy dirtbag Jay Rasulo. Hopefully it's Tom Staggs, since Kathleen Kennedy is unable to support hand drawn.

Wasn't it made pretty clear she supports creativity (hand-drawn being a form of creativity) and hand-drawn animation? What gave you the idea that she would be unable to support it?

DisneyJedi wrote:

TsWade2 wrote:Like maybe the new CEO will let John Lasseter do another hand drawn animated feature. Like I said, it better not be that greedy dirtbag Jay Rasulo. Hopefully it's Tom Staggs, since Kathleen Kennedy is unable to support hand drawn.

Wasn't it made pretty clear she supports creativity (hand-drawn being a form of creativity) and hand-drawn animation? What gave you the idea that she would be unable to support it?

See for yourself.

So is CG animation. And she is now in charge of a company that has really been a driving force in making CG animation such a huge component of modern film-making.

All I would say is that its too early to pin your hopes on someone like Kathleen Kennedy leading a hand-drawn revolution, Iger still has a few years left and there are a number of potential candidates who could succeed him, including some already in senior management positions at Disney.

And you honestly believe just from reading that that she won't be able to support a hand-drawn feature?

Kathleen Kennedy recently helped bring The Wind Rises to the Telluride Film Festival. It seems odd to me that she would still be involved in the Ghibli films after she became head of Lucasfilm so she must have some appreciation for the artform. Will that translate to another hand-drawn feature from Disney if she ever becomes CEO? Who knows?

Sotiris wrote:Kathleen Kennedy recently helped bring The Wind Rises to the Telluride Film Festival. It seems odd to me that she would still be involved in the Ghibli films after she became head of Lucasfilm so she must have some appreciation for the artform. Will that translate to another hand-drawn feature from Disney if she ever becomes CEO? Who knows?

All we can do, my friend, is wait and hope.

Sotiris wrote: It was certainly not. I don't know where you got that idea from. The Wild started production in 2003 and was released in 2006. Madagascar started production in 2002 and was released in 2005. If someone ripped anyone off, it was Disney.

I heard it from the interwebs that Dreamworks stole the idea from Disney. Huh. :/

Can somebody please sort this out with evidence ?

Thanks

Just what to know the truth that's all.

Sotiris wrote: There's nothing in common between the films you listed other than a vague concept. Following the same logic, Happy Feet ripped off The Pebble and the Penguin because both films feature penguins.

I actually do feel that Happy Feet was a bit of Pebble and the Penguin rip off now that you mention it the animated feature. Not because they both feature Penguins but because both of the main characters are misfits and socially awkward and have the main interest of the popular pretty girl. Though that's just personal feels. Maybe....

But Antz/ Bugs Life

Shark Tale/ Finding Nemo etc

Can't help but feel that Dreamworks did it on purpose and Turbo being damn familiar to Cars doesn't help.

Sotiris wrote: Eisner did treat Katzenberg very unfairly and it was natural of him to feel bitter and frustrated. But he has matured since then and changed for the better. He learned to trust the creative talent of his studio and stopped micromanaging, he does tons of charity work, and he's made DreamWorks into one of the best companies to work for, and one of Hollywood's most female-driven studios. If you ask me, Lasseter and Pixar could learn a thing or two from Katzenberg.

The Katzenberg thing was a joke xDD

Please don't take that bit seriously.

I honestly feel like Katzenberg helped the Disney get off the ground after years of struggling and helped them with Aladdin, Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast etc and helped them become the beautiful movies that they are.

DC Fan wrote:Even if Disney won´t make any more hand drawn animation movies...

...why not go back to TV cartoons? But GOOD TV cartoons. Back to Ducktales, Chip ´N Dale, Gummi Bears and such. Plus, on top of everything, raising the bar for animation.

A 2014/ 2015 Duck Tales with the original back on air as well would be cool since the game is doing well and getting attention. Maybe a Castle of Illusion cartoon as well and a Oswald The Lucky Rabbit cartoon. A Lion King cartoon and Beauty and the Beast cartoon and 2014/ 2015 Little Mermaid cartoon would be cool as well.

And a Peter Pan cartoon that's not just for 3 year old babies.

Sotiris wrote:

FlyingPiggy wrote:Disney never had a Ramayana adaptation in development and Dreamworks has been working on it for 3 years.

WDAS did have a Ramayana adaptation in development in the early '00s. Surprisingly, we know very little about that cancelled project. All we know is that Ray Shenusay worked as a visual development artist and Anthony Adams worked as a writer on the film. Of course, I agree with you that accusing DreamWorks of stealing the idea from Disney is utterly ridiculous.

I had no idea, that's really interesting. I even googled before posted and the only thing that came up was the recent Indian animated movies.

I'd love them to do another movie set in India, but I'm glad it didn't happen with a Ramayana adaption. I can't see it "Disney-fied."

Maybe Dreamworks will be brave enough to do it. I haven't liked most of the Dreamworks animated movies apart from HTTYD, but they do seem to be Disney's main competition in the animated department, and if they do an incredible, successful hand drawn feature, I feel like Disney may follow suit, hopefully with an even more superior one.

heh I feel the same way about DW, other than HTTYD & their 2d films I dont like any of their other films. But I would love it if theyd go back to 2d if just so they can say "see we still believe in 2d, & humiliate Disney & give them a kick in the butt. It be awesome if John Karrs left b/c DW asked him to direct a hybrid film for them. But now that theyve had 2 big flops I cant see them risking anything gutsy like 2d. I think they even had a half 2d project "My and My Shadow" & they pulled it after ROTG flopped.

unprincess wrote:

Maybe Dreamworks will be brave enough to do it. I haven't liked most of the Dreamworks animated movies apart from HTTYD, but they do seem to be Disney's main competition in the animated department, and if they do an incredible, successful hand drawn feature, I feel like Disney may follow suit, hopefully with an even more superior one.

heh I feel the same way about DW, other than HTTYD & their 2d films I dont like any of their other films. But I would love it if theyd go back to 2d if just so they can say "see we still believe in 2d, & humiliate Disney & give them a kick in the butt. It be awesome if John Karrs left b/c DW asked him to direct a hybrid film for them. But now that theyve had 2 big flops I cant see them risking anything gutsy like 2d. I think they even had a half 2d project "My and My Shadow" & they pulled it after ROTG flopped.

That would be a good punishment for Disney dissing 2D hand drawn animation.

unprincess wrote:

Maybe Dreamworks will be brave enough to do it. I haven't liked most of the Dreamworks animated movies apart from HTTYD, but they do seem to be Disney's main competition in the animated department, and if they do an incredible, successful hand drawn feature, I feel like Disney may follow suit, hopefully with an even more superior one.

heh I feel the same way about DW, other than HTTYD & their 2d films I dont like any of their other films. But I would love it if theyd go back to 2d if just so they can say "see we still believe in 2d, & humiliate Disney & give them a kick in the butt. It be awesome if John Karrs left b/c DW asked him to direct a hybrid film for them. But now that theyve had 2 big flops I cant see them risking anything gutsy like 2d. I think they even had a half 2d project "My and My Shadow" & they pulled it after ROTG flopped.

"Me and My Shadow" returned to development in February. I'm glad because I was really looking forward to it.

Sky Syndrome wrote:

unprincess wrote: heh I feel the same way about DW, other than HTTYD & their 2d films I dont like any of their other films. But I would love it if theyd go back to 2d if just so they can say "see we still believe in 2d, & humiliate Disney & give them a kick in the butt. It be awesome if John Karrs left b/c DW asked him to direct a hybrid film for them. But now that theyve had 2 big flops I cant see them risking anything gutsy like 2d. I think they even had a half 2d project "My and My Shadow" & they pulled it after ROTG flopped.

"Me and My Shadow" returned to development in February. I'm glad because I was really looking forward to it.

Yes. And I hope that will be good.