DVDizzy Forum

blackcauldron85 wrote:

BelleGirl wrote:Mushu and Crickee were not at all really necessary in the story, I think Mulan could have managed well without them:

But isn't Crickee the reason Mulan gets in trouble with the matchmaker?

And Mushu is the one who writes the letter that gets the soldiers into the mountains in the place. These characters have their moments.

ajmrowland wrote:

blackcauldron85 wrote: But isn't Crickee the reason Mulan gets in trouble with the matchmaker?

And Mushu is the one who writes the letter that gets the soldiers into the mountains in the place. These characters have their moments.

Of course, they are 'written into' the script to make them 'necessary'. But do you really need a little dragon to write a letter? The twist in the story (a military expedition threatens to be blown off) was made to give Mushu something important to do.

Yes, Crickee is the reason Mulan gets in trouble with the machmaker, but that is NOT the reason why Mulan decided to steal her fathers armour to join the army in his place.

Vermin Friends wrote:Is it just me, or does Mulan have a sort of... untold story, like Beauty and the Beast symbolically told the story of Howard Ashman's battle against AIDs- does Mulan tell the story of closeted LBGT individuals, and how we are sometimes seen as dishonors upon our families by others- even ourselves?

"if I were truly to be myself, I would break my family's heart"

There's the whole cross-dressing factor, and to take the limelight off of Mulan, I've noticed that a lot of dA users think Shang is gay because he seemed to be attracted to Mulan before she was found out...

But anyway, I love Mulan. It has such a beautiful story, nice music, etc. I always enjoy watching it whenever I have the time.

I know there will be a lot of people on this forum who will ridicule you for your thoughts, saying "it's only a Disney film", or: "you're seeing too much inton it which isn't there", but I really think you've hit on some really interesting issues. Very impressive! Didn't think of it that way. This would be worth examining further. Maybe I'll use it when writing my next paper (I'm a film student).

BelleGirl wrote:

ajmrowland wrote: And Mushu is the one who writes the letter that gets the soldiers into the mountains in the place. These characters have their moments.

Of course, they are 'written into' the script to make them 'necessary'. But do you really need a little dragon to write a letter? The twist in the story (a military expedition threatens to be blown off) was made to give Mushu something important to do.

I don't think anyone's denying that. They're certainly more important things to do than what the three gargoyles had to do. The rest had important stuff, but it is written that way.

BelleGirl wrote:Yes, Crickee is the reason Mulan gets in trouble with the machmaker, but that is NOT the reason why Mulan decided to steal her fathers armour to join the army in his place.

No, but he sure was part of the reason.

What Disney version of Mulan?

Disney actually made a movie based on Mulan?

/sarcasm

This will always be THE movie version of Mulan, in my mind.

merlinjones wrote:
I'd rate it higher but for the weak villain who has no real personality or humor.

I actually like the villain. Honestly humor would have ruined Shan-Yu, could you really take a Chinese version of Hook or Mim seriously? Humor can work for some villains depending on the extent (Yzma, Mim and Hook for examples). Also, for personality I think he was intended to be a bit cold, he's obviously ruthless and doesn't have much emotion in him. Rewatch the scene with the two soldiers he has shot and you might see what I mean by ruthless and emotionless Also, the part where he decides to go return that doll as well.

For Mulan as a whole, I enjoy it except for Eddie Murphy. However all I have to say about that is thank god it's Eddie Murphy and not Chrish Rock or Chris Tucker then the character of Mushu would be even more unbearable (For me at at least).

Chernabog_Rocks wrote: Honestly humor would have ruined Shan-Yu, could you really take a Chinese version of Hook or Mim seriously? Humor can work for some villains depending on the extent (Yzma, Mim and Hook for examples). Also, for personality I think he was intended to be a bit cold, he's obviously ruthless and doesn't have much emotion in him. Rewatch the scene with the two soldiers he has shot and you might see what I mean by ruthless and emotionless Also, the part where he decides to go return that doll as well.

Shan-Yu isn't my favorite villain by any means, but I agree with you. I can't imagine him being a humorous villain. I mean, he's a leader in a war! That's a serious thing (versus turning someone into a llama so you can become a ruler). I don't like him as much as I like some of the other villains because he's not as developed as I would have liked.

Shan-Yu is easily my favorite male villain after Hades and Frollo. I agree with blackcauldron85 that, if Shan-Yu is a weak villain, it's in his lack of depth and not in his lack of comedy (not all villains have to be simultaneously comedic; usually, when they are so, they mostly devolve into the "evil for evil's sake" type of villain).

I agree with Bellegirl that Mushu and Crickee were definitely “written into the script.” Meaning the characters wouldn't be necessary to acheive the same resulting storyline (Mulan could’ve easily been disgraced by the Matchmaker through her own doing--the cheating, for instance). So, if Mushu and Crickee were extracted from the film, the movie would’ve been mostly the same, sans comic relief.

Disney's Divinity wrote: (not all villains have to be simultaneously comedic; usually, when they are so, they mostly devolve into the "evil for evil's sake" type of villain).

You mean like Maleficent? I never read the original fairytale, but she doesn't seem to want revenge because she was never invited to the party!
I say she would've been banished rather than not invited.

Disney's Divinity wrote: So, if Mushu and Crickee were extracted from the film, the movie would’ve been mostly the same, sans comic relief.

I agree with that, I guess, but most (if not all) the DACs have comic relief provided by the sidekicks. They help make the films less heavy. Some may say, "Why not have a heavy Disney film?" "Night on Bald Mountain" is pretty dark and heavy, and there are no funny sidekicks, but all of Fantasia isn't dark and heavy. I'm a fan of the sidekicks; I even like the gargoyles in THoND. I like how the characters are funny. Sometimes they're not really "necessary", but they make the films more enjoyable.

The movie without Crickee and Mushu??

No way. I'd say out of all the Disney sidekicks that provide comic releif, Mushu wasn't even that intrusive...plus his jokes/comedy were much better than say the Gargoyles in Hunchback...

ajmrowland wrote:You mean like Maleficent? I never read the original fairytale, but she doesn't seem to want revenge because she was never invited to the party!

Nah, she's just a s*** disturber.

As for Mulan I know lots of people who go nuts for it, but me, I just think it's meh. Decent but nothing to really get excited about.

Flanger-Hanger wrote:

ajmrowland wrote:You mean like Maleficent? I never read the original fairytale, but she doesn't seem to want revenge because she was never invited to the party!

Nah, she's just a s*** disturber.

As for Mulan I know lots of people who go nuts for it, but me, I just think it's meh. Decent but nothing to really get excited about.

Well like I said, I'm guessing she's been banished from the kingdom.

Why would she have been banished?

The queen clearly still treats her with respect in calling her something nice...

I just think she's an evil villian who just likes to do bad things...obviously before Phillip no one could have stopped her as she was quite powerful wiht her magic.

I dont recall what it is the queen said, but I guess Maleficent's just badass for no clear reason. IDK. The queen would hardly have power, anyway. Maleficent's positioned herself against King Stephen, not the Queen.

CampbellzSoup wrote:The movie without Crickee and Mushu??

No way. I'd say out of all the Disney sidekicks that provide comic releif, Mushu wasn't even that intrusive...plus his jokes/comedy were much better than say the Gargoyles in Hunchback...

Maybe Mushu wasn't that intrusive to you As I said before, the voice actor chosen for him is what annoys me and to me makes the character intrusive.

I don't see how Maleficent could have been banished... clearly, the king and queen are intimidated by her. You can easily tell this when she shows up and both of them are awkwardly stepping around her appearance. If she was banished, they could have just been like "GTFO pointy-head" and Maleficent would have grumbled and teleported away.

Maleficent is like that one person that you know who scares you crapless, be they a co-worker or that friend-of-a-friend who is always around, and as such you just can't get rid of them. You just choose your words carefully and avoid them as much as possible. Oh, and as the movie taught us, just bite the bullet and invite them to your parties.

This argument's not about to get anywhere. Let's just say she a bad childhood and decided to permanently invade part of someone Else's country.

Meehhhhh ehhhhh hmmmm...

...naw.

*sigh*