DVDizzy Forum

Oh, ok. So then...Disney just needed to make the slaves less happy and show some of the complications they had for Song of the South to not appear racist?

Disney Duster wrote:Oh, ok. So then...Disney just needed to make the slaves less happy and show some of the complications they had for Song of the South to not appear racist?

Well, I think it would be more complicated than just that. For starters, the Black people in the film are not slaves. That's a major discrepancy which I've seen posted all over social media and I blame Disney entirely for that. When you bury a film completely and try and leave little to no trace of its existence, false narratives will come out and spread such as "it's the most evil film that was ever created" (umm, are people forgetting about Birth of a Nation?) So a widespread view is that the film glorifies slavery even though it's set in the Reconstruction era, set after the Civil War.

But beyond that, this film was considered problematic even when it was first released, not just in the 1980s. I don't remember the full history but I think Black people and the NAACP were boycotting it even back in 1946. And Walt was told by various people that this film would give him a lot of trouble and he'd be better off not making it at all. Walt even hired a Jewish co-writer hoping that could balance out the film and make it more palatable, but clearly that wasn't the case.

I'd recommend the beginning of this blog post for more context. I think Mouse Under the Glass also had the full writeup about this film being riddled with controversy from its very inception.
https://thegreatdisneymovieride.home.bl ... outh-1946/

Interesting. What was people's reaction to Fantasia back in the 40's?

farerb wrote:Interesting. What was people's reaction to Fantasia back in the 40's?

Honestly, Fantasia has never been a favorite of mine so I don't know much about it especially considering I still don't own it on home video I've never read anything in particular about the film getting flack for racism back in 1940 especially considering the world was in the midst of WWII so I doubt they'd be bothered with anything like this back then. However, by 1969 the change did occur. I've heard a lot of things about Sunflower's removal such as that Walt himself wanted to take her out of the film but I've never seen any proof of that. However clearly they realized in the 1960s with the full Civil Rights movement that Sunflower needed to go so they seemed more aware of Fantasia being problematic than Song of the South. Which might also be because one character is easy enough to erase unlike a whole film.

Sotiris wrote: If I'm not mistaken, the ride is set after the end of the film so it can't feature Ray since he's dead/a star. I really hope they include Naveen, Charlotte, and Eudora though.

Oh, that’s a shame. I just assumed from the gorgeous picture in the tweet that it would simply be a simplistic re-creation of the movie. Maybe they can find a way to have a Ray cameo somehow, like Odie allowing him to speak with Tiana because of magic or something. *shrug* Either way, I hope they acknowledge his and Evangeline's stars anyway. EDIT: Actually, looking at the concept art more closely, their stars are there off to the right side amidst all the fireflies.

I sadly agree with whoever said the music in TP&TF isn’t as good as “Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah,” but, still, “Down in New Orleans” is a really fun, rambunctious song that could support a ride. It's a shame Lasseter booted Menken off the project to give work to his friend, Randy Newman, even more so now. Maybe the music would've been closer to being on par with Pocahontas at least.

Sotiris:

So, why do you think they haven't rethemed Tower of Terror at the other parks?

Tower of Terror will never be rethemed in Florida for two reasons: 1) it’s the icon of the park, they use it in marketing as that park’s Cinderella Castle or Tree of Life and 2) the ToT is so large, it’s visible outside the park and from within Epcot. It was painted and designed in such a way to blend into the Moroccan skyline, and changing the building ala GOTG would ruin that: https://towersecrets.com/see-the-tower- ... ide-epcot/

I don’t know as much about the Paris version. It may have similar thorns to protect it, or its days may, too, be numbered.

Sotiris:

You know, you now need to post that picture here!

Ah ha ha, I was kidding about the picture, but ToT does scare the bejeezus out of me!

blackcauldron85:

*edit* Visual representation of wait times a year ago:

https://touringplans.com/magic-kingdom/ ... 2019-06-17

Thanks for sharing this site! I’ve never used it, is it Len Testa’s site? I’ll have to keep it in mind for planning future trips now that I don’t live there anymore...

tsom:

Btw, the Splash Mountain ride is long at Disneyland because it's a fun ride and the weather in Anaheim is usually hot, so being splashed by water makes it popular. I doubt most of the people that ride it are doing it for any other major reasons. If Princess and the Frog is still a water ride, then it will serve the same purpose. I promise the average person wouldn't care about the theme.

I agree with tsom. At WDW, Splash Mountain is definitely popular during peak season which is also the hottest time of the year, but wait times for the ride drop precipitously when the weather starts to cool down. Nobody wants to get soaked at 7pm in the evening in September. I know because I’ve done that at a Mickey’s Not So Scary Halloween party and regretted it haha.... I only hopped on because there was no line.

That said, based on the TPATF concept art, it looks like they will be illuminating the attraction at night which will definitely make it a hotspot for Instagram and might encourage more people to take the plunge even when it’s getting dark and cooler out.

EDIT: Does SM have any of those big people drier machines??? I don’t remember any being there, but maybe I’m wrong? The TPATF overlay would be a great excuse to put some up.

Sotiris:

Don't expect seeing the Rock and Emily though. I highly doubt Disney would be willing to pay them royalties forever for using their likeness.

Nah, that wouldn’t stop them— only the movie underperforming would and then they’d try to sweep any unsuccessful property tie in under the rug.

You’ll find the actors from Guardians of the Galaxy and the new Star Wars trilogy inside their rides, Universal uses actors in their rides all the time, too. Just don’t expect a lot of Jungle Cruise ride merch with the Rock’s face on it, or a PhotoPass CM at the Rock’s meet and greet— that’s where the parks make their money and where they’d have to share a significant slice of the pie with the actor if they used their likeness.

I wish I could go back to the POTC gift shop and count how much of the merch actually used Johnny Depp’s face. I’ve long suspected this is the reason most (but not all) Mary Poppins merch sold at the park uses the character’s silhouette or a stylized cartoon instead of Julie or Emily proper.

Sotiris:

The only one that should be eliminated from that list is the Hall of Presidents. They should turn it to the Hall of American Heroes.

I like this idea, although it might make it too similar to The American Adventure at Epcot. Although I just want to say, my impression of that post isn’t that whole attractions were on the chopping block, but that specific insensitive and racist elements would be rooted out.

Also the TPATF ride will take place after the events of the movie, ala Frozen Ever After. I assume this is primarily to get over the “Black princess as a frog” problem.

UF wrote:Thanks for sharing this site! I’ve never used it, is it Len Testa’s site? I’ll have to keep it in mind for planning future trips now that I don’t live there anymore...

I have no idea. I feel like I had heard the name of the site before but IDK if I'd gone to it before Googling SM wait times!

At the end of the day, the purpose of Splash Mountain will remain the same as it will still be a log flume ride. The Imagineers are merely changing the animatronics and interior decor to represent a different movie and have them perform Randy Newman songs instead.

I can see "Down in New Orleans", "Dig a Little Deeper" and "Gonna Take You There" being the songs included in the ride. I also saw a suggestion on Twitter that just before you go down the drop, they should play the "Are you ready?" chorus from "Friends on the Other Side."

My husband wondered what the cause of the plunge will be, like right now it's to throw Br'er Rabbit into the briar patch. I really like that idea, estefan, playing that Facilier clip!

Re: Ray

Taking place after the movie does limit Ray's use in his classic fly form. But there's definitely room for his and Evangeline's star at some point on the ride, likely near the end.

It'd also make sense to feature his family following around on "Gonna Take You There". That could be quite a sight if done well.

UmbrellaFish wrote: EDIT: Does SM have any of those big people drier machines??? I don’t remember any being there, but maybe I’m wrong? The TPATF overlay would be a great excuse to put some up.

Nope, no people dryer at WDW. Not sure about Disneyland, though.

estefan wrote:At the end of the day, the purpose of Splash Mountain will remain the same as it will still be a log flume ride. The Imagineers are merely changing the animatronics and interior decor to represent a different movie and have them perform Randy Newman songs instead.

I can see "Down in New Orleans", "Dig a Little Deeper" and "Gonna Take You There" being the songs included in the ride. I also saw a suggestion on Twitter that just before you go down the drop, they should play the "Are you ready?" chorus from "Friends on the Other Side."

Exactly. That's my take as well. I don't see any reason to be upset, because the ride itself isn't really going to change? Just the images and music are changing.

That's a really clever idea for "FotOS." I could see it building up from there to the part "But if you ain't, don't blame me, you can blame my friends on the other...." and then you go over the edge. I know "Gonna Take You There" will definitely be a part of it (I can just imagine the "going down the bayou" lines playing on that ride ). You're probably right about "Dig a Little Deeper" having a part since Mama Odie's tree-boat is a central part of the concept art. As far as what UF said about it going to be lit up at night: I actually think it sounds like the ride might be even more fun at night this way if they have firefly re-creations sparkling everywhere.

Oh, ok JeanGreyForever. I did know they weren't slaves anymore, I mispoke again, but I didn't know all the rest of that.

UmbrellaFish, I thought they wanted to show Tiana just because people would prefer to see Tiana as Tiana and not a frog, not just because of the rase issue.

estefan wrote:I also saw a suggestion on Twitter that just before you go down the drop, they should play the "Are you ready?" chorus from "Friends on the Other Side."

That would be awesome like Amy said!

Disney Duster wrote:Oh, ok JeanGreyForever. I did know they weren't slaves anymore, I mispoke again, but I didn't know all the rest of that.

Like I said, it's Disney's fault for suppressing this film so very few people know the truth about its setting. It's easy to believe it's set in the time of slavery and that's the common mentality. Not that the Reconstruction era was much better which is also why a film like TPATF still gets so much flack from Black people on social media because they don't understand why Disney would want to highlight such a racist time period.

You know, I like how Walt Disney tried to make his dreams come true because he thought they were good things to be made. I think he should have still made the film, but I guess give all the Black characters realistic emotions and situations, and Uncle Remus leave the plantation to start a business, which I think is not far from what he was doing, leaving to start work somewhere else, right? And he tells the stories to the kids before he leaves.

Disney Duster wrote:You know, I like how Walt Disney tried to make his dreams come true because he thought they were good things to be made. I think he should have still made the film, but I guess give all the Black characters realistic emotions and situations, and Uncle Remus leave the plantation to start a business, which I think is not far from what he was doing, leaving to start work somewhere else, right? And he tells the stories to the kids before he leaves.

I actually rewatched the film today because my dad wanted to watch it after the controversy and he enjoyed it. I'm not Black so my opinion doesn't really count towards its content but personally I don't really find it offensive. Especially not when you compare it to other non-Disney films that came out during the same era. There's obviously a power imbalance between Uncle Remus and all the white characters in the film but like I said, any film set in this era or created in the 1940s would suffer from the same issues and they're not exactly blacklisted. Uncle Remus does try and leave at the end of the film when Johnny's mother tells him he can't see Johnny (Bobby Driscoll) anymore but I'm not sure what business he would have made for himself exactly. He doesn't end up going anyway.

Oh. Ok. Thanks for telling me all that.

UmbrellaFish wrote:

blackcauldron85 wrote:All Splash Mountains will be updated to TP+tF I imagine?

In the US, yes, but no word on the Tokyo Disneyland Splash Mountain. I’m sure the situation there has to be handled differently because of the different culture, and more importantly, the fact that Disney does not own that park outright.

Tokyo Disneyland Releases Statement on Possible Splash Mountain Retheming
https://wdwnt.com/2020/06/tokyo-disneyl ... retheming/

Now, according to The Asahi Shimbun, Tokyo Disneyland is considering if their Splash Mountain should receive a retheme as well. In the article, it states: “Oriental Land Co., operator of Tokyo Disneyland, said June 26 discussions were still under way on whether to change the popular attraction following a decision by Disney in the United States to change the theme of the ride at two of its amusement parks there.”

Anika Noni Rose, who voiced Tiana in the film, said Friday on Good Morning America that it was "a great moment to do better and turn it into something everyone can celebrate and be proud of and be happy for." "For young Black children, it is, of course, a wonderful and amazing way to show representation," Rose added. "For children who don't look like Tiana, it is a way to open their eyes. So, it allows these children, all of them, to meet with the common denominator, which is the love and heroism that comes with Tiana."

Source: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ ... er-1300600

I like what Anika said. I like how even non-Black children are part of it by getting their eyes opened as she put it.

Anika Noni Rose is such a class act.