DVDizzy Forum

SWillie! wrote:

bradhig wrote:The restorations don't bother me. I don't see any problem with them.

I REALLY hope you haven't seen this yet, then: http://members.chello.nl/h.h.j.f.beens/ ... HSvsBD.jpg

Otherwise, you're blind.

I saw it and I don't really care. It's just not something I care about.

SWillie! wrote:

bradhig wrote:The restorations don't bother me. I don't see any problem with them.

I REALLY hope you haven't seen this yet, then: http://members.chello.nl/h.h.j.f.beens/ ... HSvsBD.jpg

Otherwise, you're blind.

To be honest, some of the things are so subtle that I didn't even notice them until they were pointed out. A lot of the things mentioned are easy to miss. Certainly doesn't make anyone blind.

Sure, some of the things are subtle. You're right there. Color hue changes and questionable lighting are things that we could argue back and forth.

But some of them are not subtle whatsoever. The erasure of entire ink lines and the mistake of making two objects that were made two different colors the same color are flat out mistakes. That isn't a matter of "I like this better" or "I don't really see a problem". They are blatant mistakes that should be fixed.

To look at those mistakes and then say "I don't see a problem" is to be blind, in my opinion. Also, it doesn't matter if you didn't notice them until they were pointed out (I didn't either) - the fact remains that they are a mistake. The artists that worked on these films went to painstaking detail in their work, and these restorations are erasing that detail.

It's a mistake, not a deliberate change, and it should be fixed.

My problem is that these alterations/mistakes ruin, in particular, the ball scenes. The fact that the sparkles are now largely absent or invisible from Cinderella's dress, the glass slippers, and the Fairy Godmother is a serious fault for me, personally, considering the magic-related scenes are the highlights of the film.

SWillie! wrote:http://members.chello.nl/h.h.j.f.beens/ ... HSvsBD.jpg

What the heck?! This restoration sucks. Part of the reason I like the part of the guards on horseback charging after Cindy's coach is the guards riding against a rosy glow from the palace entrance. It was wonderfully eerie.

IS it really that washed out?

I picked up the Cinderella VHS off the streets last year, I'm gonna watch that right after I see the blu

so I am not bothering by missing sparkles or how the guards look. Why don't you go to IMDB.com They are plenty of people who complain about stuff like this about just about any movie or tv show you can think of.

bradhig wrote:so I am not bothering by missing sparkles or how the guards look. Why don't you go to IMDB.com They are plenty of people who complain about stuff like this about just about any movie or tv show you can think of.

It's one thing to not be bothered by it, and it's another to say "I don't see any problem." If it simply doesn't bother you, that's great... but you can't pretend there weren't mistakes made.

I'm not the type that joins in on the numerous color debates or the aspect ratio arguments - these things are often in a gray area, without an easily identifiable "correct" answer, and so debates can go on an on. In this situation, however, there were mistakes made. This is no different that a missing line of dialogue... it's a mistake, and it should be fixed.

SWillie! wrote:This is no different that a missing line of dialogue... it's a mistake, and it should be fixed.

Of course, all these "mistakes" were already present on the previous Platinum Edition DVD, and fans were already in an uproar about them years ago, and Disney still did not fix them in preparation for the Diamond release. No doubt they knew about them. They browse through fan forums.

Interesting how Don Hahn said that Bambi's 2004 restoration had to be given another "beauty pass" for the 2011 Diamond, and Cindy's 2005 restoration remained unaltered, and as flawed as it ever was.

This is particularly troubling, as Disney's only real dedication these last few years has been for unrivalled audio and video quality on Blu-ray. The lack of new bonus features I can live with, but Disney, please maintain your standard in the AV quality department, please!

To give credit where credit is due, the recent Blu-ray releases of Treasure Planet, Pocahontas, The Rescuers and The Rescuers Down Under, have not disappointed at all, in terms of picture quality.

Jules wrote:Interesting how Don Hahn said that Bambi's 2004 restoration had to be given another "beauty pass" for the 2011 Diamond, and Cindy's 2005 restoration remained unaltered, and as flawed as it ever was.

Thats because they consider things like grain and paint crawl imperfections in need of a "beauty pass", even though the Bambi restoration was more pure with them in (not that I care, since I prefer the grain free version). They don't consider mistakes made by the restoration team anything to worry about. The sad truth

Jules wrote:This is particularly troubling, as Disney's only real dedication these last few years has been for unrivalled audio and video quality on Blu-ray. The lack of new bonus features I can live with, but Disney, please maintain your standard in the AV quality department, please!

Disney sees that Blu-ray's days (well, all physical media) are numbered and that digital distribution is the way of the future (even my Blu-ray players and my new TV have streaming options). That's why they suddenly decided to release everything they have all at once in these barebones half assed releases, since it's their last opportunity and their original release schedule wouldn't have worked.

It's sad because it'll be a long while before streaming ever compares to the quality of Blu-ray but most of the public wants the convenience and cheap pricing offered by streaming services over the quality offered by Blu-ray (which is pretty much the only thing that runs in true 1080p). I almost exclusively use streaming services (Netflix and HBO GO) for television shows, which in that case really is about cheap pricing and convenience, but I know my brother will watch movie after movie after movie.

Jules wrote:To give credit where credit is due, the recent Blu-ray releases of [...]The Rescuers and The Rescuers Down Under, have not disappointed at all, in terms of picture quality.

Not everyone agrees with that.

How does everyone think I should contact Disney? I was going to go to many popular forums and places like Laughing Place and Jim Hill with these problems, but is there a better way or just other ways?

MattDean, I never contacted Disney, because only now did I go to the trouble to get the good evidence together.

Swillie thanks for defending these problems. By any chance would you be able to talk about or show these mistakes to people at Disney who could pass it along to the ones who could fix it? Just get Disney's attention?

Disney's Divinity, I agree about the magic parts being the highlight and why them being so ruined is the biggest tragedy.

Julian, I've never shown these screencaps before which were as good as they are and actually convinced people there were mistakes.

To me, besides the loss of arms and other limbs, details in dresses and colors that make it look like a microsoft paint picture/saturday morning cartoon, there is something else that ruins it for me. I think it's an important aspect that not many people mentioned before.

What I loved most about this classics is the atmosphere in the picture that is created by the lighting. The created source of light in the picture. For example, the stills where Cinderella runs down the stairs towards the pumpkin carriage. In the first one, there is a warm glow coming out of the palace. The new one is just very cold, and there is no lighting, atmosphere whatsoever. Cold, flat and empty. It basically sucks all the life out of the image. They erased the animated influence of light.

I remember the Pinocchio screencaps from a while ago. Colors aside, it does not seem there is actual light coming from the candle. If you put your hand over the left side of the picture, you would never know there is a source of light.

This is what makes or breaks an animated film in my opinion. The atmosphere that is created by this. That's what makes the restorations of these films so lifeless.

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bradhig wrote: Why don't you go to IMDB.com They are plenty of people who complain about stuff like this about just about any movie or tv show you can think of.

Obviously somebody's never ventured into any thread on this forum to do with Beauty and the Beast...

Nobody is perfect and you can't make people be perfect. The only way to get the restorations done the way you want is to somehow get Disney to let you done them. I have read the Beauty and the Beast threads and it's ndthe same problem as here grumbling about restorations not meeting someone's unrealistic standards.

"Unrealistic?" I'm not gonna comment about Beauty and the Beast (colors are subjective ) but I personally don't believe there's anything unrealistic about expecting the line art/inks to show up in a proper restoration.

Thank you all for posting the comparison images. It really makes it obvious when seeing it all side by side. When I first watched the DVD of Cinderella years ago, I was disappointed to say the least. Without knowing what exactly had changed in terms of specific details, I knew it didn't look like the rich film I loved. Suddenly it looked rather cold... life had been sucked out it. Colors were different, depth was gone, details lost. While I've been fairly happy with the restorations on Snow White and Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella is very poor. Sad, sad. Makes me not want to get the Blu-ray at all. Time to haul out the old VHS's. This classic deserves so much better.

bradhig wrote:Nobody is perfect and you can't make people be perfect. The only way to get the restorations done the way you want is to somehow get Disney to let you done them. I have read the Beauty and the Beast threads and it's ndthe same problem as here grumbling about restorations not meeting someone's unrealistic standards.

Again, this isn't a matter of taste. This has nothing to do with my or anyone's standards. Like Enigmawing said, some things are subjective-like the color issues.

But literally erasing a part of the film is a mistake. Do you really not agree with that?

erasing part of a film? When did anything get erased.

They fixed Cinderella's lack of toes.

bradhig wrote:erasing part of a film? When did anything get erased.

They fixed Cinderella's lack of toes.

I really feel like you haven't seen what were discussing here. Entire ink lines were erased- they are literally no longer there, because theyve been painted over.

Take a look at the seventh image down on this page: http://members.chello.nl/h.h.j.f.beens/ ... HSvsBD.jpg

Look at her arms, and look at her dress. Almost every ink line in the dress has simply been erased by the paint job- the folds in the cloth are non existent. The ink lines separating her arms from her dress have also been erased.

I have no idea what you're talking about regarding her toes, but these are the mistakes were discussing.

So Swillie no way for you to get Disney's attention?