DVDizzy Forum

Escapay, to save more bandwith I'm saying something here in one post rather than making two separate posts. I just wanted to say thank you for defending me in "The Who loves Musical's Thread". Thank you very much, that was so nice.

Beastboyravenz wrote:You know what I really hate about Disney's conduct towards the Platinum Editin DVD's is that they're more concerned of getting a new generation of fans, rather than please those who really really like their movies. Disney always seems to compromise the integrity and originality of their classic films, in order to fix any form of contriversy or issue that may set their sale records downhill. For once I would love to see Disney worry more of the movie as a whole and the people who truly care for them, by leaving the films intact as they should be. Why not be faithfull to all the true Animated Classic Fans? Why try to please a child who knows nothing of the movie that won't appreciate the beauty of the artwork and passion that goes into making these films. I just don't get it.

For instance anime movies are far superior when it comes to presentation. They don't care if you're a kid or an adult. They release their films as they were originally made, they never re-edit or go back and add something that they think would impress "new audiences". They're not worried of wether they can catch a whole new generation of viewers, they're more concerned with delivering the best presentation, rather than worrying over contriversy issues. Their faifthfull to their viewers and fans, and they respect us enough to do that. You can see an Anime movie that may cause a stir, but never will the movie makers of that certain film go back and change it just because someone didn't approve. You either like the movie with it's flaws or don't like it all, but the film will never be compromised and deprived from it's originality (unless it's released here in the US by some retarded company).

Disney needs to toughen and be strict in the "originality" area and stop changing and ruining their most treasured films.

There's actually a few reasons why Disney doesn't do this for their movies.

First off, the movies you say are being treated well are from Japan, and all animation from Japan is generalized as anime, though I always thought anime specified a certain style (large eyes, small mouth and nose, pointy everything, lots of shadows and creases in clothing), but apparently not. Anyway, anime is popular with teenagers and other young people (not just children, but high school and college kids) because everything seems more mature, more adult. Well, in Japan they actually don't consider nudity, blood, or bad language so awful for children to be subjected to.

Sailor Moon was a show that was geared toward children, but featured teenage girls getting naked (but not detailed), blood, violence (including smashing people into walls), and some foul language. Death is also featured realistically, and some parents made angry phone calls to the studio that produced the show because one episode had four main characters die in horrible deaths! Yet, overall, in Japan, they don't consider the same things that we in the United States do(I'm saying the United States because Disney is an American company) as too mature for children.

I'm talking about the general public. We Ultimate Disney fans know animated movie are for everyone, but the general American public doesn't see that. Japan's general public does. And so, their animated films are not just more for adults, but they garner box-office success and movie status that animated films in the United States don't get. Spirited Away is the highest-grossing animated film ever in Japan. So they don't edit their movies for content to please the kiddies and appease adults who complain, because the movies aren't for the kiddies and adults aren't complaining. They also don't edit them because they have a huge adult fanbase that cares about them being edited, but Disney's movies are seen as mostly for kids and kids wouldn't care or even notice small edits.

For sure, Disney thinks that their films need some sprucing up for new generations to like them. In one thread, I read that kids didn't want to watch Cinderella because they thought it was too old. Then, on its DVD release, Cinderella is very bright and looks very different from the film's unrestored forms.

I hope I answered your question. The bottom line is that Disney is a company that resides in the United States, and their films are considered by much of the United States as kiddie fare, so they think kids won't care or notice their changes to the films, they think kids only care about the movie, not the bonus features, and they think there aren't enough adults out there who do care about editing and bonus features for them to stop. But in Japan, it is the opposite because the movies are considered for adults, and they have more adults who care about editing and a good DVD presentation.

So basically what you're saying is that Disney considers its fare to be just like Trix cereal: it's JUST for kids. Is that what you're saying?

Sailor Moon is not at all bloody, it's a fantasy cartoon. I saw the episode you're talking about of the "four horrible deaths" trust me, those deaths were not as horrible plus the cartoon was butchered here in The US. And as I mentioned in my post many of the anime movies that can possibly be aimed at kids have been destroyed by editing(in the US). I don't know why you're saying it was violent, isn't Batman, X-men, and all these other action cartoons here in the US violent? It's obvious that an action packed cartoon will have violence. People here need to be more openminded rather than keep themselves inside boxes. If you're not openminded towards art then you will certainly not be able to appreciate art in it's diverese forms.

I think Disney should have more respect for their work, they should defend what they've created. If I drew a picture of a nude girl and someone didn't like it I would say "the hell with you!" and leave it as is. I also consider myself part of the general public, Disney should know by now that kids aren't the only ones who like their films, Hello! aren't like half the people here 14 and up? Nobody here is 7yrs old. Unfortunately, Disney just loves money, they don't seem to care about art anymore. They've proven this time and time again by not keeping every person of "the general public" in mind, they try so hard to impress with their so called beautiful restorations that they end up destroying most of their films. And if kids wouldn't notice or care for changes in the films why bother spending a bunch of cash changing them? Isn't that dumb on their behalf?

I really appreciate your response, it's really thoughtful of you to go through all the trouble, but I'm rather disapointed with Disney as a whole. What ever happened to the people who cared about presentation and who have admiration for these films? Why can't we be more like the Japanese?

I will still like the movies no matter how much the picture quality is altered. Besides, Disney isn't really run by Eisner anymore; now it's run by John Lasseter and Bob Iger. And these people kinda do care. Obviously, us here at UD are just being too impatient with Disney to bounce back. Well, Rome wasn't built in a day, you know! The Eisner regime had taken its toll on Disney and now that he's more or less out of the picture, I think Disney is trying to recuperate from this scenario. Think of this as like a hangover after a long drinking spree. I mean, no one likes to experience these scenarios, but what can you do? Disney is trying to get back on track, but it won't be easy; it will take time and obviously, you guys don't believe in patience! Have faith, guys, and trust and... oh yeah, pixie dust!

The bottom line is, patience is a virtue! Disney is trying to recuperate from the Eisner regime, but it's not going to be easy; you got to be patient! Just relax! Nobody's perfect, not even Japan! Show some optimism and instead of viewing the glass as half-empty, for once view it as half-full!

Just let me say, patience I have a lot of. And I never said Japan is perfect, I for a fact know that nothing in life is perfect. Animation and art will never be perfect, they can be considered perfect when well executed, but nothing or nobody is perfect! And deep inside my mind I know ( atleast I'm hoping) Disney will not let fans like me down. In my artistic point of view Disney has ruined some of their most beloved films, maybe I'm being super hard and crtitcal but to me the only Disney dvd movies worth watching are Snow White and Sleeping Beauty. Many of you will say that the 90's films are great that their your favorites, but honestly those are the ones that have suffered the most. I've explained that Disney's conduct towards the Platinum line are ruining the films, but I think nobody here truly understands or will understand what I'm saying. I strongly doubt many of you will ever understand, you guys are just drawned to what looks new and super bright in color, that you're willing to overlook the damages in re-editing that Disney is doing. Disney should include both edited and unedited versions of their films.

Well put there, beastboyravenz. I doubt Disney would ever truly let audiences down. But Snow White and Sleeping Beauty aren't the only ones without sequels (thank goodness!); other films include: Pinocchio, Dumbo (that one ALMOST got a sequel, but thank heavens they backed out at the last second), Alice In Wonderland, The Sword In the Stone, Aristocats, Robin Hood, Black Cauldron, Great Mouse Detective, Oliver and Co., Treasure Planet and Home On the Range. Are you referring to PE DVDs' quality supposedly ruined instead of improved? I for one actually like the improved quality! What's wrong with altered quality? If you want unaltered quality, just score a VHS release.

No, I'm sayin that re-editing and color changes are ruining the movies. And yes only Platinum dvd's. Are you saying you like that Disney has altered The Lion King, The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin, By re-editing and re-drawign animation? If so good for you, that you're able to overlook all those things and still feel the same about the films. There is nothing wrong with enhancing the fims to make them look sharper and crisp, but I do find apalling what Disney has done to some of my favorite films. You clearly done care. I don't mind new technology but I do mind color changes and re-editing that will compromise the films originally. I'm just one person, probably one of the few who feels this way.

Beastboyravenz wrote:No, I'm sayin that re-editing and color changes are ruining the movies. And yes only Platinum dvd's. Are you saying you like that Disney has altered The Lion King, The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin, By re-editing and re-drawign animation? If so good for you, that you're able to overlook all those things and still feel the same about the films. There is nothing wrong with enhancing the fims to make them look sharper and crisp, but I do find apalling what Disney has done to some of my favorite films. You clearly done care.

Obviously, you don't have the ability to overlook quality in the 90s movies, like I do. But think of some of the stuff on those DVDs not seen in the VHS variations thereof. Also, what did you mean by that I clearly done care? Did you mean I clearly DON'T care? 'Cause if you do mean it that way, then that kinda hurts my feelings... not that you haven't ALREADY hurt my feelings; you really brought some tears to my eyes...

I'm mainly speaking of the movie itself. And when I said that you don't care, I meant that you don't care that Disney re-drew animation and has changed the true movies color pallete. It's good that you're able to look past all of that. To put things in a better way I probably should've written "you don't mind". I don't see how I hurt your feelings, I'm basically just stating how I feel, but you say I did so I apoligize. Really I'm sorry. Friends?

Yes, friends, I accept your apology. I thought you were talking about restoration, not redoing from scratch. But I do accept your apology. However, there are some things in the DVD movies not seen on the VHS movies, like "Human Again" on BATB and "The Morning Report" on TLK.

Well, anyway, I accept your apology, beastboyravenz. And we are friends.

Thanks for accpetting my apology.

You're so welcome.

Escapay wrote:

DisneyFreak5282 wrote: Seriously? That would be odd. But why would they do that? If anyone finds any further info, let me know.
So basically the 10th Anniversary of Pocahontas is like the 'bread and butter' of any Disney DVD collection?

The "bread and butter" of any Disney DVD collection should be the Fantasia Anthology, but Pocahontas is definitely in the top five, IMO.

DisneyFreak5282 wrote:I considered purchasing it at Target last night, but it didn't have a slipcover (don't yell at me, Escapay, I just feel that it protects the case of the DVD so that it won't get damaged).

I won't yell at you, I'll just hang my head in shame and point out that *proper* care of the DVD and the Amaray case that holds it shouldn't ever require a slipcover. Keep it on the shelf but don't make the shelf too tight with cases. Handle them as carefully as you would the DVD, and don't lend them to idiots who don't know how to take care of them properly.

Of course the essential DVD is OOP! What would be your top 5 must own DACs on DVD, Escapay?

Also, I don't know. I guess slipcovers just make the DVD seem more special (the ones that come with slipcovers). It just makes it really seem like a Special Edition, ya know? Of course, if I saw it for a real reasonable price w/o a slipcover, I would buy it. But for $19.99, I feel that it should include a slipcover.

Beastboyravenz wrote:One infamous error that has now been corrected occurs at the end of the movie when the animals come out of the water after the forest fire. A raccoon appears and then suddenly pops off the screen in the middle of the scene. According to Bossert, it was actually caused when the camera operator inadvertently put the raccoon on the wrong peg.

I found this paragraph above, explaining about the racoon.

Yes, I just saw that! A father raccoon comes out of the water, and he has two babies, then, just before he puts the two babies down, a third one appears at his feet!

In light of the recent news that Aristocats is getting a two-disc edition as well as the forthcoming Peter Pan: Platinum Edition, I figured this would be a nice thread to bump up as we can continue discussion about whether the quality of platinums and any new two-disc editions will improve in 2007. Could 2007 be a year of redemption? Were the disappointments in single-disc re-releases of 2005 and 2006 heard by Buena Vista, and they decided that maybe they should start picking up the slack and providing worthy two-disc special editions again? I don't want to get my hopes up for The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, but if a film like The Aristocats is getting a two-disc, I don't want it to be a fluke that stands out and is followed by more disappointing single-disc editions.

I'm hoping that because of the new two-disc for The Aristocats that Disney realizes that there has always been an interest in comprehensive two-disc sets, and starts producing them again, not just for animated titles. When was the last time we saw a two-disc live-action movie that wasn't called Pirates of the Caribbean, The Chronicles of Narnia or High School Musical? Would love to see them tackle their catalog titles again in a two-disc format. I'm sure The Rocketeer could do well as a nice two-disc set, and dammit where's a proper SE for Bedknobs and Broomsticks?

Also, I wanted a break from rewatching Higglytown Heroes and chance to answer this question that I didn't get a chance to before the thread dropped off of page one:

DisneyFreak5282 wrote:What would be your top 5 must own DACs on DVD, Escapay?

I think in terms of both DVD presentation and movie quality, my idea of the top five must-own DACs for any Disney fan would have to be these, in no preferential order aside from alphabetical:

Aladdin: Platinum Edition - I often feel that of the "Fab Four" (with The Rescuers Down Under unceremoniously forgotten), that in the general consensus, Aladdin always is overlooked and always considered "yeah, that other one" if it makes any sense. Which is a shame since it is IMO the best of the films in the Fab Four (followed by Beauty and the Beast, then a rather large drop-off before I give the third-place slot to The Little Mermaid by default since there is very little I like about The Lion King). And the DVD is definitely one of the best I've seen, complete with TWO commentaries and a very nice selection of Deleted Scenes/Songs ("Proud of Your Boy" in particular). The two-hour documentary is a mixed bag for me, as it offers a lot of great footage and anecdotes, but sometimes gets too retrospective and backpatting, and has a couple silly and stupid segments (Who really wants to see Jonathan Freeman visit some birds? Not me!). Still, it's still a much better treatment on Platinum than the horribly segmented pieces of The Lion King or that "The bigger fan you are of Disney, the more you already know what we're talking about" documentary for The Little Mermaid. I would have loved to seen more material on the early versions of Aladdin, but what we get is adequate. After all, the documentary is meant to focus on the actual film, not an early version. And the film is definitely Disney at its finest in the 1990s. It's got adventure, humor, romance, and the characters aren't cookie-cutter archetypes or bland stereotypes. It's simply the best.

Atlantis - The Lost Empire: Collector's Edition - this is slanted more towards DVD presentation than to the movie, as it's a love-it-or-hate it kind of film, so I'll spare everyone else my pleadings to give the film a chance (or in some cases a second and third chance). The DVD...it's just AMAZING what is spread across the two discs. The audio/visual commentary is very informative and laid back, and offers a nice selection of material that doesn't get repeated on the second disc. And that second disc...oh. my. god. A comprehensive three-hour documentary that goes deeper into the making of the film, and is not fluffy, not boring, and not backpatting. It's a wealth of information that ranges from talking heads, behind the scenes footage, early animation and progression tests, etc. And even beyond the documentary parts are a few really nice featurettes, hundreds of stills, and of course...trailers! If only every Disney DVD got this kind of treatment, even a few Platinums pale in comparison to this (*cough* The Lion King, The Little Mermaid, and Cinderella *cough*)

The Fantasia Anthology - never mind that it's the apex of feature animation from Walt's first five. Never mind that it's censored. Never mind that the 2000 companion film feels like a package film with celebrity hosts. It's been treated to an amazing DVD set. And the third disc is for the uber-fans, while the single releases still please casual fans and big Disney fans. Commentaries are well-done, especially the archival interviews with Walt, and I especially loved the 40-odd minute documentaries on each respective movie. But the third disc is definitely the creme de la creme. It offers a true perspective of the creative process for both films, with storyboards, galleries, related featurettes, etc. It gives each segment of the film its due, and provides deleted materials that otherwise might be forgotten. My absolute favorite feature in the entire three-disc set would have to be "Clair De Lune", the deleted segment that found new life as "Blue Bayou" in Make Mine Music.

Pocahontas: 10th Anniversary Edition - for all the reasons I mentioned earlier. It's the proper version of the film, along with the original, and it's branching is done much better than it was for Beauty and the Beast. And in place of the old laserdisc commentary, a brand-new and much nicer one was recorded for the proper edition. I never really expected a longform documentary for this film, and the second disc succeeds in providing the viewer with concise and to the point information and material about the film without getting overtly fluffy or praising. The 28-minute documentary is far better than any segmented clunky pieces found in The Lion King or even Mulan, both of which could have benefited from a "Play All" option and the inclusion of the theatrical trailer, which Pocahontas retains, and does one better, as it even has a nicer featurette about the premiere. The film is very much a love story, an idealized and romanticized version of history that is more metaphoric in its portrayal of the new world than it is accurate. I can understand people's complaints about the film, but to me, I always saw it as a celebration of life and an indulgence in music, as music is an integral part of how they tell the story.

Sleeping Beauty: Special Edition - strange that I passed over several other worthy Platinums (Bambi and Lady and the Tramp) and gave the fifth slot to a film that I really don't enjoy as much as others do. But again, it's all about the DVD. While I loved Bambi's "Inside Walt's Story Meetings" and the wonderful "One Hour in Wonderland" on Alice in Wonderland, I feel that Sleeping Beauty was the more comprehensive and essential of the others. After all, the film itself may not be the best, but it is visually stunning and uniquely animated (the background is very stark straight lines that intermix with the curvatures of the characters). The commentary was culled from a variety of people who worked on the film, and given the film's short 75-minute runtime, plays out very much like a documentary where you don't see the faces of who's talking. Also, the actual production portions of the second disc are very well done, namely the restoration featurette and the widescreen/pan-and-scan comparison. While the 17-minute "documentary" isn't much, it's a nice extention of what we've already heard from the commentary. I also love the galleries on this disc, it gives a better chance to study the artwork in the film.

Well, I guess that's it. Five Disney Animated Classics that I felt are the "bread-and-butter" of any Disney DVD collection and a must-own for any Disney DVD Fan.

Of course, there are two bones of contention that have to do with the politically correct editings of two films. Aladdin has a couple lines of lyrics changed during "Arabian Nights" and a "questionable" line edited out on the balcony scene ("Good kitty, take off and go!"). And Fantasia has horrible and fuzzy cropping done during a few shots, along with a digital erasure of a character during "Pastoral Symphony". I don't consider the re-voiced narrations an edit, since the originals simply weren't available and that was the best they could do. Anyways, those two films aren't on DVD in their original form which is a pity, but it shouldn't keep collectors from buying them.

A few notable omissions from my top five list are some of the earlier CE's by Disney, namely Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Tarzan, and The Emperor's New Groove. The latter two were omitted because even though they do contain a generous amount of bonus material, it does not measure up to what we've come to expect in special edition DVDs today, and actually appear quite lacking.

The video material on Tarzan for example, amounts to about 35 minutes or so (despite the claim of "86 minutes" on the disc), though there is a great commentary, and still galleries and text features are immense. But still galleries aren't always everyone's cup of tea and neither are commentaries. Also, I liked the featurettes, but they were too separated from everything else, and didn't flow as well as I'd have liked it to. Then again, the format for bonus materials then was separating the featurettes into categories instead of a cohesive documentary. I enjoy the categoric format, but would still like an option to view the featurettes in succession as a cohesive documentary.

It's been awhile since I've gone through my The Emperor's New Groove set, but the "85 minutes" of supplemental material as printed on the disc would be better if it included the documentary "The Sweatbox". Also, much of the material focuses on the same animation process that it gets rather repetitive.

As for Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs? I appreciate the work behind the film, I love the second disc's archival materials, but the list is about DACs I feel are both top-notch in DVD and movie. And I just don't like the movie.

I also omitted Beauty and the Beast from the list, but not because I don't like the film or its features. While BATB has always been my favorite DAC ever, I consider my second favorite, Aladdin, to be the better-produced and better movie. But anyway, it's not on the list because it's not the best in DVD terms. The whole "three versions of the film!" aspect is interesting, but was handled badly. I don't know how the hell they formatted the disc, but they certainly could have given the film better quality and higher bitrate if they simply provided the original theatrical version as the default title, with seamless branching for appropriate segments of the work-in-progress edition and the special edition. Instead, it seems like the film was put on the disc three times, resulting in compression problems. I'd have simply put the Work-in-Progress version on Disc Two, and to make it fit I would have cut the stupid games and the broad Mrs. Potts section that is a cutdown of the documentary and a lousy featurette ("The Story Behind The Story", which I didn't particularly care for and would have rather seen those featurettes on their respective movies than taking up space on Beauty and the Beast). Also, I think they were far too broad in the bonus materials. Don't get me wrong, the 50-minute documentary is very well-done, but at the end it always makes me feel like saying "That's it?" Like there was more to be said, but the DVD producer had to make sure Chip's Musical Challenge and Mrs. Potts' Personality Profile could fit so he lopped off 20 minutes.

I'm sure by the time the new re-releases come out this year that I may amend the list (like adding Peter Pan if it's as good as it's sounding), but for now, this is what I feel are the *strongest* and *essential* Disney Animated Classics on DVD.

Escapay

Having worked on several Platinum titles, all I will say is the projects are big budget efforts and involve many people. The client was always very concerned about the final result and wanted it as good as possible.
If 3D was added to menus, it was for a specific reason and had to be fully approved before it got to final authoring.

Great post, Escapay! And welcome to the forum, kurtadisneyite. It's always nice to have someone who's actually been involved with things project their voice with those who merely track them closely!

kurtadisneyite wrote:Having worked on several Platinum titles, all I will say is the projects are big budget efforts and involve many people. The client was always very concerned about the final result and wanted it as good as possible.
If 3D was added to menus, it was for a specific reason and had to be fully approved before it got to final authoring.

YOU worked on the PE line?! Which ones did you do?

NDA's prohibit me saying much about what I did, but I've worked on 13 Disney titles including Cindy and Ariel Platinum. The crews on these included several companies involved with menu assets, games, and authoring.

After some time, I figured I'd revive this with some new discussion about the Platinum titles.

Obviously, what we got with Peter Pan could initially be considered a letdown. After all, the only significant new stuff in this release besides a transfer was two deleted songs, a 20-minute deleted materials featurette, two shorter featurettes amounting to about 16 minutes, and new art galleries.

But I began to think about the release, and about the material present. And, after many many thoughts and debates within my crazy head, I began to realize, "You know...what we have here is actually pretty good."

Stick with me, here, guys, as I try and explain this.

Now, the biggest bone of contention for me with the Peter Pan: Platinum Edition was the lack of any new longform documentary, be it a 50 minute piece of seven segments (like Lady and the Tramp), or a 110 minute piece of 30 segments (like Aladdin). It was one of my main gripes and I would complain about it as often as possible to anyone who would care (or not care) to listen.

But, I was listening to the commentary last night, and I realized...we do have a documentary. The commentary, in its structure of a host (Roy E. Disney, later Jeff Kurtti) discussing the film, while also giving pre-recorded comments by a wealth of other people. I began to then think...what exactly do we look for in the Platinum documentaries? Information, obviously. And we often get it simply from a narrator, some talking heads, and clips from the film, stills from the film, etc. And the commentary contains all of that, it's just set entirely to the movie.

So, in essence, we do get a documentary, and perhaps one better than most of the other Platinums. It runs 77 minutes, doesn't get glossy or backpatting, and provides a thorough collection of memories from the film and analysis of how it was made. Sure, it may not be the most conventional documentary, as it's sole video is the movie itself, but then again, it saves us (and the bonus features editor) the trouble of having to cut from talking head to movie clip to stills montage to talking head again. Still, it's often nice to see material that the people refer to (such as any behind the scenes photos or live-action reference footage).

The current Platinum for Peter Pan is far from the greatest it could be. But I've softened up to it, and it's adequate for now. I still would prefer a nice six-disc set , but then again, I'd also like for The Lion King to disappear forever from the collective minds of the world.

Anyways, that part of this post is over, so I though I'd take a look at just how much production-specific material is contained within each Platinum title. Things that fall in a story origins, making-of, promotional, or retrospective part of the film (or in two cases, the Broadway musical). So things like cover music videos, games, sing-alongs, storybooks, sneak peeks at other movies, and the two not-really-related animated shorts aren't included ("The Little Match Girl", Laugh-O-Gram "Cinderella). Stuff like "The Goddess of Spring" and "The Old Mill" can be considered animation tests for Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and Bambi, respectively. For The Little Mermaid, I also didn't include the material about the attraction, because while it is related to the film, and could be considered a promotional piece for the film ("ride the ride, then watch the movie" kind of thing), it still felt more of a park-related piece than a movie-related one.

Anyways...in reverse order of release...

Peter Pan: Production Specific Materials
-Audio Commentary (77 minutes)
-You Can Fly: The Making of Peter Pan (15 minutes, 59 seconds)
-In Walt's Words: Why I Made Peter Pan (7 minutes, 44 seconds)
-Tinker Bell: A Fairy's Tale (8 minutes, 27 seconds)
-The Peter Pan that Almost Was (21 minutes, 3 seconds)
-Deleted Song: The Pirate Song (1 minute, 19 seconds)
-Lost Song: Never Land (2 minutes, 39 seconds)
-Music Video: Never Land (3 minutes, 15 seconds)
-The Peter Pan Story (12 minutes, 4 seconds)
-Art Galleries (463 Stills)

Total: 149 minutes, 30 seconds (72 minutes, 30 seconds without commentary)

The Little Mermaid: Production Specific Materials
-Audio Commentary (83 minutes)
-Treasures Untold: The Making of The Little Mermaid (45 minutes, 30 seconds)
-Storm Warning: The Little Mermaid Special Effects Unit (8 minutes, 40 seconds)
-The Little Mermaid: The Story Behind The Story (11 minutes, 30 seconds)
-Alternate Version: "Fathoms Below" (2 minutes, 30 seconds)
-Deleted Scene: Backstage with Sebastian (1 minute, 40 seconds)
-Deleted Scene: Sebastian Lost in the Castle (1 minute, 50 seconds)
-Deleted Scene: Advice from Sebastian (1 minute, 30 seconds)
-Alternate Version: "Poor Unfortunate Souls" (8 minutes, 34 seconds)
-Alternate Ending: Fight with Ursula (6 minutes, 55 seconds)
-Song Demo: "Silence is Golden" (3 minutes)
-Early Presentation Reel (2 minutes, 34 seconds)
-Theatrical Trailer (2 minutes, 15 seconds)
-Easter Egg: Comments from Ruben Aquino, Glen Keane, and Mark Henn(1 minute, 40 seconds)
-Art Galleries (387 stills)

Total: 181 minutes, 8 seconds (98 minutes, 8 seconds without commentary)

Lady and the Tramp: Production Specific Materials
-The Siamese Cat Song: Finding a Voice for the Cats (4 minutes, 16 seconds)
-Lady's Pedigree: The Making of Lady and the Tramp (52 minutes, 30 seconds)
-Finding Lady: The Art of storyboards (13 minutes)
-Original 1943 Storyboards (11 minutes, 50 seconds)
-Disneyland: The Story of Dogs (17 minutes, 27 seconds)
-Disneyland: Cavalcade of Song (21 minutes, 38 seconds)
-Deleted Scene: Turning the Tables (3 minutes)
-Deleted Scene: The Arrival of the Baby (6 minutes, 30 seconds)
-Two Theatrical Trailers (5 minutes, 50 seconds)
-Art Galleries (332 stills)

Total: 136 minutes, 11 seconds

Cinderella: Production Specific Materials
-From Rags to Riches: The Making of Cinderella (38 minutes, 26 seconds)
-From Walt's Table: A Tribute to Disney's Nine Old Men (22 minutes)
-The Art of Mary Blair (14 minutes, 56 seconds)
-Storyboard to Film Comparison (6 minutes, 46 seconds)
-Perry Como Show; Ilene Woods (6 minutes, 45 seconds)
-Mickey Mouse Club: Helene Stanley (3 minutes, 55 seconds)
-Original Demo: "Cinderella" (2 minutes, 10 seconds)
-Unused Demos (17 minutes, 20 seconds)
-Radio Broadcast: Village Store (2 minutes, 35 seconds)
-Radio Broadcast: Gulf Oil Presents (5 minutes, 25 seconds)
-Radio Broadcast: Scouting the Stars (4 minutes, 20 seconds)
-The Cinderella that Almost Was (14 minutes, 16 seconds)
-Deleted Scenes: Introduction (1 minute, 45 seconds)
-Deleted Scene: "The Cinderella Work Song" (3 minutes, 20 seconds)
-Deleted Scene: "Dancing on a Cloud" (4 minute, 35 seconds)
-Six Theatrical Trailers (9 minutes, 14 seconds)
-Art Galleries (373 stills)

Total: 158 minutes, 10 seconds

Bambi: Production Specific Materials
-Inside Walt's Story Meetings (70 minutes)
-The Making of Bambi: A Prince Is Born (53 minutes)
-Restoring Bambi (5 minutes, 55 seconds)
-Disney Time Capsule: 1942 - The Year of Bambi (4 minutes, 35 seconds)
-Inside the Disney Archives (8 minutes, 40 seconds)
-Disneyland; Tricks of the Trade (7 minutes, 17 seconds)
-Animated Short: The Old Mill (9 minutes, 3 seconds)
-Deleted Scene: Introduction (30 seconds)
-Deleted Scene: Bambi's First Snow (2 minute, 30 seconds)
-Deleted Scene: Winter Grass (37 seconds)
-Theatrical Trailer (2 minutes, 10 seconds)
-Art Galleries (214 stills)

Total: 163 minutes, 17 seconds (93 minute, 17 seconds without Story Meetings)

Aladdin: Production Specific Materials
-Audio Commentary 1 (90 minutes)
-Audio Commentary 2 (90 minutes)
-A Diamond in the Rough: The Making of Aladdin (110 minutes, 50 seconds)
-Alan Menken: Musical Renaissance Man (20 minutes)
-Aladdin: Art Review (8 minutes, 45 seconds)
-Deleted Songs (14 minutes, 10 seconds)
-Deleted Scenes (5 minutes, 45 seconds)
-Theatrical Trailer (2 minutes, 50 seconds)
-Art Galleries (247 stills)
-Publicity Gallery (42 stills)

Total: 351 minutes, 40 seconds (171 minutes, 40 seconds without commentaries)

The Lion King: Production Specific Material
-Audio Commentary (90 minutes)
-Animal Journey (18 minutes, 15 seconds) - 6 featurettes
-Story Journey (11 minutes, 50 seconds) - 3 featurettes
-Stage Journey (16 minutes, 14 seconds) - 5 featurettes
-Film Journey (17 minutes, 25 seconds) - 4 featurettes
-Music Journey (24 minutes, 15 seconds) - 7 featurettes
-Character Design (11 minutes) - 7 featurettes
-Storyboard Process (1 minute, 55 seconds)
-Storyboard to Film Comparison (4 minutes)
-Production Design (2 minutes)
-Computer Animation (4 minutes, 20 seconds)
-Leaps of Fantasy (4 mintues)
-Multi-Language Reel (4 minutes)
-International Release (4 minutes)
-DVD Sound Design (6 minutes)
-Deleted Scenes: Introduction (25 seconds)
-Deleted Scene: Bug Football (20 seconds)
-Abandoned Concept: "Can You Feel The Love Tonight" (1 minute, 44 seconds)
-Abandoned Concept: "Hakuna Matata" (2 minutes)
-Early Concept: Timon & Pumbaa Find Simba (3 minutes)
-Early Concept: Simba's Presentation (3 minutes)
-Deleted Scene: Warthog Rhapsody (3 minutes)
-The Making of "The Morning Report" (3 minutes)
-Early Presentation Reel (1 minute)
-Art Galleries: Character Design
-Art Galleries: Production Design
-Art Galleries: Effects Animation
-Art Galleries: Soundtrack Covers
-Art Galleries: Large Format Release
-Art Galleries: Stage Musical Publicity

Total: 238 minutes, 43 seconds (148 minutes, 43 seconds without commentary)

Beauty and the Beast: Production Specific Material
-Work-in-Progress Edition (84 minutes)
-Audio Commentary (90 minutes)
-Tale As Old As Time: The Making of Beauty and the Beast (51 minutes) - 18 chapters
-Disney's Animation Magic (14 minutes, 23 seconds) - 8 chapters
-The Making of Beauty and the Beast: Celine Dion Introduction (1 minute, 24 seconds)
-The Making of Beauty and the Beast: Celine Dion Closing (34 seconds)
-The Story Behind The Story (25 minutes, 37 seconds) - 9 chapters
-A Transformation: Glen Keane (3 minutes, 11 seconds)
-Pencil Version: The Transformation (5 minutes, 24 seconds) - with introduction
-Animation Tests (4 minutes, 52 seconds)
-Camera Move Test (2 minutes, 7 seconds) - with introduction
-Alternate Version: Be Our Guest (4 minutes, 53 seconds) - with introduction
-Deleted Song: Human Again (8 minutes, 27 seconds) - with 2 introductions
-Alternate Score: The Transformation (2 minutes, 2 seconds) - with introduction
-Early Presentation Reel (2 minutes, 50 seconds) - with introduction
-Trailers: Introduction by Don Hahn (36 seconds)
-Theatrical Trailers (4 minutes, 32 seconds)
-IMAX TV Spots (2 minutes)
-Art Galleries: Concept Art & Deesign
-Art Galleries: Layouts & Backgrounds
-Art Galleries: Characters
-Art Galleries: Broadway Costume Design
-Publicity Galleries: Original Release
-Publicity Galleries: Large Format Release
-Publicity Galleries: Broadway Musical

Total: 298 minutes, 54 seconds (133 minutes, 52 seconds without commentary and Work-In-Progress Edition)

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs: Production Specific Material
-Audio Commentary (84 minutes)
-Still the Fairest of Them All: The Making of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (38 minutes, 52 seconds)
-Disney Through The Decades (41 minutes, includes 7 Trailers)
-Art & Design (1 minute, 42 seconds)
-About Layouts & Backgrounds (4 minutes, 41 seconds)
-Storyboard-to-Screen Comparisons (9 minutes, 20 seconds)
-Voice Talent (6 minutes, 20 seconds)
-The Restoration (5 minutes, 15 seconds)
-Camera Tests (12 minutes, 10 seconds)
-Live-Action Reference (6 minutes, 45 seconds)
-Silly Symphony: The Goddess of Spring (9 minutes, 43 seconds)
-Disneyland: The Story of the Silly Symphony: The Multiplane Camera (1 minute, 30 seconds)
-Disneyland: Tricks of Our Trade: The Multiplane Camera (7 minutes, 30 seconds)
-Disneyland: Tricks of Our Trade: Live-Action Reference (4 minutes)
-A Trip Through Walt Disney Studios (11 minutes)
-How Disney Cartoons Are Made (8 minutes, 55 seconds)
-Lost Angeles Premiere Newsreel (1 minute, 10 seconds)
-Original Premiere Radio Broadcast (30 minutes)
-Lux Radio Theatre (8 minutes, 2 segments)
-Mickey Mouse Theatre of the Air (28 minutes, 30 seconds)
-1958 Radio Spots (1 minute, 36 seconds)
-1967 Radio Spots (3 minutes, 12 seconds
-Abandoned Concepts (8 minutes)
-Deleted Scenes (13 minutes, 47 seconds)
-Original RKO Opening & End Credits (1 minute, 30 seconds)
-Recording Session: The Silly Song (3 minutes, 13 seconds)
-Deleted Song: You're Never Too Old To Be Young (3 minutes, 17 seconds)
-Text Material: Walt Disney Biographical Timeline
-Text Material: "Snow White" Production Timeline
-Text Material: Original Brothers Grimm Fairy Tale
-Art Galleries: Visual Development
-Art Galleries: Layouts & Backgrounds
-Art Galleries: Character Design
-Publicity Galleries: The Premiere
-Publicity Galleries: Pressbook
-Publicity Galleries: Production Notes
-Publicity Galleries: Merchandise
-Publicity Galleries: Posters

Total: 353 minutes, 58 seconds (270 minutes, 58 seconds without commentary)

So, in order from greatest to least (with commentary when included), the Platinums stack up like this:

1. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs: 353 minutes, 58 seconds
2. Aladdin: 351 minutes, 40 seconds
3. Beauty and the Beast: 298 minutes, 54 seconds
4. The Lion King: 238 minutes, 43 seconds
5. The Little Mermaid: 181 minutes, 8 seconds
6. Bambi: 163 minutes, 17 seconds
7. Cinderella: 158 minutes, 10 seconds
8. Peter Pan: 149 minutes, 30 seconds
9. Lady and the Tramp: 136 minutes, 11 seconds

But, if we were to not count the commentary (or BATB's Work-in-Progress Edition and Bambi's Story Meetings), since not everybody listens to them, it'd look like this:

1. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs: 270 minutes, 58 seconds (Same)
2. Aladdin: 171 minutes, 40 seconds (Same)
3. Cinderella: 158 minutes, 10 seconds (+4)
4. The Lion King: 148 minutes, 43 seconds (Same)
5. Lady and the Tramp: 136 minutes, 11 seconds (+4)
6. Beauty and the Beast: 133 minutes, 54 seconds (-3)
7. The Little Mermaid: 98 minutes, 8 seconds (-2)
8. Bambi: 93 minutes, 17 seconds (-2)
9. Peter Pan: 72 minutes, 30 seconds (-1)

So...that's it. Don't really know what I was trying to prove, beyond the realization that Peter Pan has more material than Lady and the Tramp, and yet still is the weakest Platinum to date (solely in terms of quantity, as the quality is still outstanding).

If I had to rank the 9 Platinums in terms of quality of material (and trying hard to keep my personal feelings aside), I'd probably rank it like this:

Top-Level Platinums: (Most Fulfilling DVD Experience)
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
Aladdin

Mid-Level Platinums: (Great and Informative Material, but not quite as exhaustive as previous Platinums)
Beauty and the Beast
Bambi
Cinderella
Lady and the Tramp

Lower-Level Platinums: (Good Material, still feels rather lacking, deserves better treatment in a future release)
Peter Pan
The Little Mermaid
The Lion King

And if you've survived this really long post and you're still reading all this, hooray for you! You get a !

Escapay

All well and good Escapay, but we're back to your "Double Dip" expression. The Peter Pan Platinum edition is still disappointing because it duplicates too much of the Special Edition.

Don't forget this is either the 3rd or 4th release of Peter Pan, depending on which country you live in, and its supposed to be a Platinum Edition (not that that matters to me as such). To take so much off the film's previous release is, in my mind, inexcusable.

I wasn't expecting the Paramount Silent Movie to be included. To be honest it's nice to have, but I doubt many people would have watched it. I'm fond of some silent films, but I didn't watch it all the way through. Still, its B/W so even though it's longer, I guess it could have taken up as much room as the read-along Peter Pan on the second disc. The Silent Movie may not appeal to most, but I guess it would appeal to more than the read-along Peter Pan!

I would have expected the Nine old Men documentary though, personally I think its one of the best documentaries Disney has made. It may not be obviously connected to Peter Pan (the link is Peter Pan is the last film all 9 worked on together) but its a documentary that demands to be seen (I was kind of hoping it would be on the new Fox and the Hound DVD, as that's a logical place for it too, but alas not).

Finally, the non-inclusion of the Christmas Show is the biggest insult of the lot. Especially when the UK Press Release listed it, showing it was definitely considered at some point (just as the UK press release for Cars listed a commentary, showing one has most probably been recorded... If Chicken Little is anything to go by it will appear on the BD Cars).

I really don't think anyone should be happy, or even accepting anything on the Peter Pan Platinum DVD. We all deserved better.