The new Princesses being excluded from the lineup

[PatchofBlue]

Count me in as part of the "slow down on the princesses" club. I think some of Disney's greatest movies have been led by a princess character, but they absolutely do not need to take up so much of the conversation. It is kind of an uphill battle at times trying to convince people that most of Disney's films don't fall into the princess class (literally, less than one in five), and it's super not-helpful when Disney tries to drop a new project every two years.

I don't think we need any more for a good decade or so. The only thing that would change my mind would be the promise of a proper Latina Princess since they are the only ethnicity that doesn't have a princess character in the lineup. (I mean like a REAL princess. Mirabel is a great character, but keep her out of the line.) I'm all here for well-rounded female characters (e.g. Raya) being recognized and celebrated without having to be roped into a crowd that they absolutely do not fit into.

Sidenote, I actually used to be pretty strict on the "Mulan and Pocahontas are not real princesses and so they should not be in the club" line of thinking, but I have somewhat softened on that stance over the last decade-ish. I had thought I would have a hard time seeing Moana as a certified princess for the same reason, but for some reason I never felt any natural resistance to the idea of seeing her with the others. I think it might be in part because I think Moana is a stronger film than Mulan or Pocahontas, but I also think that it might be because I have developed an increased awareness of the value of including a culturally diverse array of characters within the family.

[Thumper_93]

I don't think that Moana is a stronger film than Pocahontas or Mulan. The plot of the movie is the same that they have been using for years. She's quite popular right now but her film is no so iconic as Mulan or Pocahontas.
About her beeing a Princess well, she has the same rights than Pocahontas to be it. Both are the daughter's of the chief and in this society the chief is like the king in the occidental monarchy so yes, both would be princess for the occidental people. Real Pocahontas was even introduced in London as a princess so it has sense to make her princess.
Mulan was not a princess by title but she saved China and it is a great reference so I understand that she deserves it and that they wanted to make a diverse franchise to attract more people.

[Disney's Divinity]

I really just mentioned Alice and Lilo because their films are popular, and because Alice and Megara (and Esmeralda/Tinker Bell) had been used on merchandise in the '90s. I have stickers from that time saved in a box somewhere just because I know its sort of a rarity now. Aurora's style doesn't really fit alongside the others for me, but I think they often soften it in the merchandise artwork. I think Kida and Pocahontas are other princess-type characters with a stylized look. I'm honestly surprised they haven't pulled in Anastasia yet considering Merida is in it; I thought that was the direction we were heading, but it's taking longer than I would've thought.

I think Mulan is better than Pocahontas and Moana, but as far as how popular and well-known the characters are, I'd put all three around the same level. I think all characters are ones most of the general public would know, where Raya and Asha will probably have a problem there. Mirabel, IDK. I know Encanto was more successful as far as breaking into the zeitgeist anyway and selling merchandise, but I'm not sure if the average person would recognize the name Mirabel right off the way they would Moana or Mulan.

[twihard]

I don't think that Moana is a stronger film than Pocahontas or Mulan. The plot of the movie is the same that they have been using for years. She's quite popular right now but her film is no so iconic as Mulan or Pocahontas.
About her beeing a Princess well, she has the same rights than Pocahontas to be it. Both are the daughter's of the chief and in this society the chief is like the king in the occidental monarchy so yes, both would be princess for the occidental people. Real Pocahontas was even introduced in London as a princess so it has sense to make her princess.
Mulan was not a princess by title but she saved China and it is a great reference so I understand that she deserves it and that they wanted to make a diverse franchise to attract more people.

You said it. Never seen that generic movie but everything I've read about it tells me that it's just classic Disney formula reheated about five different times. What is popular today need not necessarily be popular tomorrow or years from now. I don't expect any of modern Disney to be relevant or considered classics in the future. I think 90s Disney was will be considered the last relevant era and maybe Lilo and stitch as the only classic since then.
Pocahontas I think should be a princess because she is a cheif's daughter and a chief is the equivalent of a king. The british certainly thought so. She was included in the Lennox princess figurine collection as well. She fits every requirement of being a DP like being beautiful, having animal sidekicks, singing, having an epic romance at the forefront, having a father/daughter relationship, etc. She only misses out on not having a sparkly dress (but her dress is iconic like Jasmine's pants or Ariel's tail), not having a blue dress (but she does have a blue necklace), and not having a castle. I think allownces should be made considering she is from a culture without castles.
Mulan I never saw as princess material. She is more like ALice, Esmeralda and Lilo as a heroine but not a princess. She only got the title because Disney got criticsm for having only white princesses outside of Jasmine (who is technically also Caucausian) which is why they had to add Pocahontas and Mulan as "almost" princesses. I also think her movie sends the wrong message towards women as Mike Pence said. I know my friends have all said they won't show this movie to their daughters because they feel it's unrealistic and even Disney seems to agree cuz I heard in the new one they made it so that she's magically an action heroine.
I think out of all these movies, Pocahontas is the one best known. I was reading old posts on this forum and read some fun stuff about how there was a UK survey about princess movies and Pocahontas was one of the most watched princess movies with Snow White, Aladdin, Cinderella, Beauty and the beast, etc. whereas Mulan and Moana were at the bottom. Also that at the parks ppl recognize Pocahontas from all ages and countries but Mulan is less known. I don't think I even know what Moana looks like. I got her lego minifigure in a set and didn't recognize her and threw it away once I learned who she was supposed to be.

[carolinakid]

twihard,

to everything you said. I wish I had your gift of articulation!

[Disney's Divinity]

Mulan having magic powers in the remake isn't a reflection on the original film. They changed everything about the film, including the film montage of her being trained as a soldier. I'm not sure what Mike Pence has to do with the Disney Princess line and I had no idea he even had thoughts about Disney's Mulan. Considering he can't be in a room with any woman without his wife present, I can imagine his difficulties with a movie that features a female protagonist.

[The Disneynerd]

I don't expect any of modern Disney to be relevant or considered classics in the future. I think 90s Disney was will be considered the last relevant era and maybe Lilo and stitch as the only classic since then.

Yeah I slightly agree with that. Almost Everything pre 2000s is timeless, 90% of WDAS filmography from the last century is still remembered in pop culture today and most of them contributed a step forward in terms of storytelling and Animation, they set the standard, while movies nowadays orientate on them (or depend on them like Wish). And this decade only has handful of good to great movies like tEnG, Stitch, Frog, and Frozen, whereas the ones I enjoy like, Zootopia, Tangled or BH6, lack independence, self control and timelessness, especially the unwatchable ones after Moana that are only depending on its brands empire. Back then Disney adaptation were the definitive Version, they CLAIMED the stories and now when you hear of Snow White, Cinderella, Little Mermaid, Winnie Pooh, 101 dalmatians, Lady&Tramp or Jungle Book, you automatically think of Disney, whereas Frozen, princess and the frog or Treasure Island, you can obviously seperate them from their original books, so if another studio might find interest in adaptating those in 10 years, they wouldnt have that much problems than with their earlier adaptations.

[The Disneynerd]

Its interesting how the majority dislikes the newer Disney princesses, even compared to the more "shallow" first few Disney princesses like Snow White or Cinderella, who started it all. Im happy about the results, but still interesting that they think Snow is slightly more annoying than Ariel...

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While Elsa was really likeable in the first, she was extremely annoying in the second, alongside basically every other character in the movie. she had an elegance in the first that was completely lost in the sequel, and she had nothing to do so im happy shes the winner of the voting but I really thought everyone loved her so im still really surprised by the results

Also the poll has over 200k votes, impressive

[The Disneynerd]

But this one explains Elsas annoyingness too i guess

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But again, how on earth is Snow more overrated than Ariel? I love Ariel but she gets way more treatment than the walt princesses. Imo Snow White is one of the more Underrated princesses

[PatchofBlue]

Between those four, I'd say Belle is the most overrated, but I still like her just fine (the only princess I'd say I dislike is Merida). I just think that a lot of what people assume about Belle is mostly projection. I also think that while Disney likes to hype her up as the first active Disney Princess or whatever, I'd say most of the plot mechanics are spurred on by The Beast, and so a lot of the celebration of Belle comes at the expense of his character.

I wonder who all participated in those online polls because that does feel counter to how much of the younger crowd discusses the Disney Princesses. They're very much sold on the promise of the new princesses being better than the old crowd, and so I feel like the crowd that would rally against Elsa would be 1. General Frozen Haters, or 2. Older Disney Fans who can sometimes get reactionary about these things.

[DisneyFan09]

While Elsa was really likeable in the first, she was extremely annoying in the second, alongside basically every other character in the movie. she had an elegance in the first that was completely lost in the sequel, and she had nothing to do so im happy shes the winner of the voting

How was she annoying the sequel?

but I really thought everyone loved her so im still really surprised by the results. Also the poll has over 200k votes, impressive

I`m surprised about it, too. Due to how Elsa was practically the breakout character of Frozen. But perhaps it could`ve been a result due to the backlash of the Frozen franchise?

I just think that a lot of what people assume about Belle is mostly projection. I also think that while Disney likes to hype her up as the first active Disney Princess or whatever, I'd say most of the plot mechanics are spurred on by The Beast, and so a lot of the celebration of Belle comes at the expense of his character.

Well, remember that Ariel was also hyped up by Disney to be the first active Disney Princess, too. And not only by Disney, but by reviewers. However, Belle was still praised by Disney for being superior to Ariel.

[PatchofBlue]

Well, remember that Ariel was also hyped up by Disney to be the first active Disney Princess, too. And not only by Disney, but by reviewers. However, Belle was still praised by Disney for being superior to Ariel.

Disney tends to double-dip with these kinds of things. While Disney will play up Ariel being her own agent when it serves them, they're also not afraid to talk about Ariel like she was just Belle's warm-up act if that's the crowd they're trying to impress.

From an Entertainment Weekly bit promoting the LA Beauty and the Beast:
https://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b55/ ... s0nnjk.png

Ariel in The Little Mermaid was high-spirited and feisty enough to defy her powerful father. But ultimately, she wanted what previous generations of heroines had wanted: a handsome prince for a husband.

Belle looked to broader horizons, declaring how deeply she wanted ‘adventure in that great wide somewhere.’ She confided to a passing sheep during her opening song that she enjoyed reading about Prince Charming, but she never said she expected—or even wanted—a prince as a suitor. It would be nice to have someone who understood her dreams, but she didn’t need a nobly born husband to realize her goals. She’d choose a library over a palace.

[Disney Duster]

That's just dumb. Belle said reading about Prince Charming was her favorite part. And she liked palaces because that's what she liked to read about. Her dream was not to read about an enchanted castle but live in one and that's what she got.

Also, Ariel wanted to live in the human world just a little less than she wanted true love. I suspect she is just like Belle in wanting true love a bit more than exploring a world.

[PatchofBlue]

That's just dumb. Belle said reading about Prince Charming was her favorite part. And she liked palaces because that's what she liked to read about. Her dream was not to read about an enchanted castle but live in one and that's what she got.

I've made that same observation many times.

And on some level, the LA team had to understand that it's okay for strong female characters to still like romance because even in the remake, Belle mentions that her favorite Shakespeare work is Romeo & Juliet.

[DisneyFan09]

Disney tends to double-dip with these kinds of things. While Disney will play up Ariel being her own agent when it serves them, they're also not afraid to talk about Ariel like she was just Belle's warm-up act if that's the crowd they're trying to impress.

True. And they`ve done it ever since. And it`s suprising how the marketing of Wish didn`t made a big deal of how feminist and strong Asha was, as they`ve done it with most of the Revival and post-Revival heroines.

[Disney Duster]

I agree, PatchofBlue!

[The Disneynerd]

How was she annoying the sequel?

Omg i guess im braindead lol I meant Anna not Elsa. Like I know the poll was about Elsa but I was thinking of Anna when I wrote that. Regarding Anna, she was extremely clingy, desperately followed Elsa anywhere, even tho Elsa got everything under control and the worst part was how she sidelined Kristoff all the time, worst scene was him flirting with her casually and she goes "yoU tHinK iM cRaZy??? "... this was not the same character as in the first

Now to Elsa, she wasnt as horrible as Anna in the sequel, but she too had nothing really to do here. She had an calm elegance that was completely gone in the sequel, but yeah ur right I guess she herself isnt that annoying, but her being the "annoying" one could come from her being extremely overrated

[DEEcat98]

Anyone remember how the Disney Princesses franchise used to be a big thing during the 90's, 2000's, and 2010's?

Since between the very end of the 2010's and the start of the 2020's, the Disney Princesses franchise isn't as big as it used to be, (it's still around and still does merchandising, plus they added Raya from Raya and The Last Dragon to the line, just not as major as it used to) what happened and why did it decrease?

[DisneyFan09]

Well, the truth is that the Official Franchise started in the new Millenium. While it did exist in the 1990`s, it still wasn`t the same franchise as it was today. But now that you mention it, I`ve seen how the exposure and the buzz of the franchise has settled down a bit. Perhaps because how Disney has realized that a Princess-themed franchise can now be it`s own brand (cough, Frozen, cough). And perhaps also due to the recent Disney fatigue?

[DEEcat98]

Well, the truth is that the Official Franchise started in the new Millenium. While it did exist in the 1990`s, it still wasn`t the same franchise as it was today. But now that you mention it, I`ve seen how the exposure and the buzz of the franchise has settled down a bit. Perhaps because how Disney has realized that a Princess-themed franchise can now be it`s own brand (cough, Frozen, cough). And perhaps also due to the recent Disney fatigue?

I feel the reason for the Disney Princesses franchise being currently decreased is because of the failure and negative reception of the Palace Pets as Palace Pets marked being the franchise killer for Disney Princesses.